1059 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Name a dextro planet that isn't under Turian control. If you're going to headcanon that there was a fictional dextro planet they could have settled instead, there's not much we can really discuss.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[D4rkSektor]

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
There is no reason to believe that the Geth WOULD have joined the Reapers if the Quarians hadn't ruined their plans.
The Quarians created another ally to the Reapers by attacking the Geth. The Quarians have created Reaper allies just as often as the Geth have joined the Reapers.

The geth have historically joined the Reapers, and I would expect hem to do so again if given the opportunity.

The quarians have created Reaper allies, but only the geth themselves.  Exterminating the quarians won't solve the problem.  Destroying the geth solves the problem once and for all.

The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

I am sorry, but....are you ****ing stupid? The only reason why the Quarians attacked the Geth the second time is because the Geth made it seem like peace with them was out of the question. Were the Geth clear about their intentions (e.g. not shooting down anyone who entered the Perseus Veil), the Quarians would not have attacked. Peace would have meant having Rannoch back, more forces against the Reapers, and no dumb conflict in the middle of the goddamned Reaper War.
And you seriously think that murdering an entire race because of baseless speculation would be the best way to handle the Geth siding with the Reapers.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[KingZayd]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If you're going to headcanon that there was a fictional dextro planet they could have settled instead, there's not much we can really discuss.

I'm asking for evidence that there wasn't one.

You seem to be headcanoning that there isn't one. Particularly if you can't find any evidence to support your claim.

[KingZayd]

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
There is no reason to believe that the Geth WOULD have joined the Reapers if the Quarians hadn't ruined their plans.
The Quarians created another ally to the Reapers by attacking the Geth. The Quarians have created Reaper allies just as often as the Geth have joined the Reapers.

The geth have historically joined the Reapers, and I would expect hem to do so again if given the opportunity.

The quarians have created Reaper allies, but only the geth themselves.  Exterminating the quarians won't solve the problem.  Destroying the geth solves the problem once and for all.

The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

I am sorry, but....are you ****ing stupid? The only reason why the Quarians attacked the Geth the second time is because the Geth made it seem like peace with them was out of the question. Were the Geth clear about their intentions (e.g. not shooting down anyone who entered the Perseus Veil), the Quarians would not have attacked. Peace would have meant having Rannoch back, more forces against the Reapers, and no dumb conflict in the middle of the goddamned Reaper War.

Are you?

Did the Quarians make it seem like peace was attainable? Were the Quarians clear about any peaceful intentions? The Geth are witihin their rights to shoot down any ships that trespass upon their territory. It's not very friendly, but their territory: their rules.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If you're going to headcanon that there was a fictional dextro planet they could have settled instead, there's not much we can really discuss.

I'm asking for evidence that there wasn't one.

You seem to be headcanoning that there isn't one. Particularly if you can't find any evidence to support your claim.

Burden of proof is on you, pal. It's your supposition. You're asking me to prove a negative.

They were desperate enough to try settling on a second-tier world that was too cold, with too much gravity. Suggests they were short on alternatives.

[D4rkSektor]

KingZayd wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
There is no reason to believe that the Geth WOULD have joined the Reapers if the Quarians hadn't ruined their plans.
The Quarians created another ally to the Reapers by attacking the Geth. The Quarians have created Reaper allies just as often as the Geth have joined the Reapers.

The geth have historically joined the Reapers, and I would expect hem to do so again if given the opportunity.

The quarians have created Reaper allies, but only the geth themselves.  Exterminating the quarians won't solve the problem.  Destroying the geth solves the problem once and for all.

The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

I am sorry, but....are you ****ing stupid? The only reason why the Quarians attacked the Geth the second time is because the Geth made it seem like peace with them was out of the question. Were the Geth clear about their intentions (e.g. not shooting down anyone who entered the Perseus Veil), the Quarians would not have attacked. Peace would have meant having Rannoch back, more forces against the Reapers, and no dumb conflict in the middle of the goddamned Reaper War.

Are you?!

Did the Quarians make it seem like peace was attainable? Were the Quarians clear about any peaceful intentions?

The entire mentality of wanting to take back Rannoch by force was due to the fact that the Geth appeared to be hostile! Do you not get it?
Ship enters Perseus Veil. Ship is shot down. Everyone who enters dies. Later, the Heretics start attacking organics while working for the Reapers. Prior to meeting Legion, the consensus was that Geth are hostile to organics.
Is there any part of that that would make you believe even for a second that the Geth wanted peace?

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[KingZayd]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If you're going to headcanon that there was a fictional dextro planet they could have settled instead, there's not much we can really discuss.

I'm asking for evidence that there wasn't one.

You seem to be headcanoning that there isn't one. Particularly if you can't find any evidence to support your claim.

Burden of proof is on you, pal. It's your supposition. You're asking me to prove a negative.

They were desperate enough to try settling on a second-tier world that was too cold, with too much gravity. Suggests they were short on alternatives.

So you have no evidence for your claim? Headcanon.

I'm not asking you to PROVE anything. Just any evidence that backs up what you claim to be a fact.


Too cold and too much gravity because the Council were dicks and wouldn't let them take anything better. The Council isn't able to stop them now.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[D4rkSektor]

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If you're going to headcanon that there was a fictional dextro planet they could have settled instead, there's not much we can really discuss.

I'm asking for evidence that there wasn't one.

You seem to be headcanoning that there isn't one. Particularly if you can't find any evidence to support your claim.

Burden of proof is on you, pal. It's your supposition. You're asking me to prove a negative.

They were desperate enough to try settling on a second-tier world that was too cold, with too much gravity. Suggests they were short on alternatives.

So you have no evidence for your claim? Headcanon.

I'm not asking you to PROVE anything. Just any evidence that backs up what you claim to be a fact.

That is asking him to prove it...

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If you're going to headcanon that there was a fictional dextro planet they could have settled instead, there's not much we can really discuss.

I'm asking for evidence that there wasn't one.

You seem to be headcanoning that there isn't one. Particularly if you can't find any evidence to support your claim.

Burden of proof is on you, pal. It's your supposition. You're asking me to prove a negative.

They were desperate enough to try settling on a second-tier world that was too cold, with too much gravity. Suggests they were short on alternatives.

So you have no evidence for your claim? Headcanon.

I'm not asking you to PROVE anything. Just any evidence that backs up what you claim to be a fact.


Too cold and too much gravity because the Council were dicks and wouldn't let them take anything better. The Council isn't able to stop them now.

And I've given it to you. You choose to ignore it.

Sounds like you're back to arguing that they invade Turian space.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[KingZayd]

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
There is no reason to believe that the Geth WOULD have joined the Reapers if the Quarians hadn't ruined their plans.
The Quarians created another ally to the Reapers by attacking the Geth. The Quarians have created Reaper allies just as often as the Geth have joined the Reapers.

The geth have historically joined the Reapers, and I would expect hem to do so again if given the opportunity.

The quarians have created Reaper allies, but only the geth themselves.  Exterminating the quarians won't solve the problem.  Destroying the geth solves the problem once and for all.

The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

I am sorry, but....are you ****ing stupid? The only reason why the Quarians attacked the Geth the second time is because the Geth made it seem like peace with them was out of the question. Were the Geth clear about their intentions (e.g. not shooting down anyone who entered the Perseus Veil), the Quarians would not have attacked. Peace would have meant having Rannoch back, more forces against the Reapers, and no dumb conflict in the middle of the goddamned Reaper War.

Are you?!

Did the Quarians make it seem like peace was attainable? Were the Quarians clear about any peaceful intentions?

The entire mentality of wanting to take back Rannoch by force was due to the fact that the Geth appeared to be hostile! Do you not get it?
Ship enters Perseus Veil. Ship is shot down. Everyone who enters dies. Later, the Heretics start attacking organics while working for the Reapers. Prior to meeting Legion, the consensus was that Geth are hostile to organics.
Is there any part of that that would make you believe even for a second that the Geth wanted peace?

Nope. The entire mentality was them wanting to take back Rannoch, and not seeing the Geth as anything more than machines.

Did the Quarians not destroy any Geth they saw? What aspect of Quarian behaviour would make the Geth believe even for a second that the Quarians wanted peace?

Do you not get it?

[sw04ca]

D4rkSektor wrote...
...You think killing the Geth is a good way of dealing with the problem of Reaper allies? The root problem of aligning with the Reapers is the Reapers themselves.

Defeat in detail.

[KingZayd]

Calinstel wrote...

Wondering something.
Quarians initiated a surprise attack on the geth.
geth decide to align themselves with the Reapers (after the attack)

Um, Rannoch's skies were a war zone, so just when/how did the Reaper destroyer make it to Rannochs surface AND have a facility built to house it underground, secretly?

Seems the geth didn't mind having a Reaper in the neighbor long before they were attacked.

But, I'm just asking a question, not trying to prove anything.

The Quarians didn't attack Rannoch immediately. They'd been taking back Geth space for a while leading up to the attack on Rannoch.

[sw04ca]

KingZayd wrote...
The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

If the geth are destroyed, then the quarians can't turn them towards the Reapers.  As simple a solution as there can be.

[KingZayd]

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

If the geth are destroyed, then the quarians can't turn them towards the Reapers.  As simple a solution as there can be.

If the Quarians are destroyed, then the quarians can't turn the Geth towards the Reapers.  As simple a solution as there can be.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:43 .

[DeinonSlayer]

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

If the geth are destroyed, then the quarians can't turn them towards the Reapers.  As simple a solution as there can be.

If the Quarians are destroyed, then the quarians can't turn the Geth towards the Reapers.  As simple a solution as there can be.

I think I'm done here.

[D4rkSektor]

KingZayd wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
There is no reason to believe that the Geth WOULD have joined the Reapers if the Quarians hadn't ruined their plans.
The Quarians created another ally to the Reapers by attacking the Geth. The Quarians have created Reaper allies just as often as the Geth have joined the Reapers.

The geth have historically joined the Reapers, and I would expect hem to do so again if given the opportunity.

The quarians have created Reaper allies, but only the geth themselves.  Exterminating the quarians won't solve the problem.  Destroying the geth solves the problem once and for all.

The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

I am sorry, but....are you ****ing stupid? The only reason why the Quarians attacked the Geth the second time is because the Geth made it seem like peace with them was out of the question. Were the Geth clear about their intentions (e.g. not shooting down anyone who entered the Perseus Veil), the Quarians would not have attacked. Peace would have meant having Rannoch back, more forces against the Reapers, and no dumb conflict in the middle of the goddamned Reaper War.

Are you?!

Did the Quarians make it seem like peace was attainable? Were the Quarians clear about any peaceful intentions?

The entire mentality of wanting to take back Rannoch by force was due to the fact that the Geth appeared to be hostile! Do you not get it?
Ship enters Perseus Veil. Ship is shot down. Everyone who enters dies. Later, the Heretics start attacking organics while working for the Reapers. Prior to meeting Legion, the consensus was that Geth are hostile to organics.
Is there any part of that that would make you believe even for a second that the Geth wanted peace?

Nope. The entire mentality was them wanting to take back Rannoch, and not seeing the Geth as anything more than machines.

Did the Quarians not destroy any Geth they saw? What aspect of Quarian behaviour would make the Geth believe even for a second that the Quarians wanted peace?

Do you not get it?

Do I have to go over their history for you?

Quarians are kicked off Rannoch, only a few of them remain.
Council refuses to help and kicks the Quarians off the Council for creating the Geth
Council attempts to contact the Geth
Geth shoot them down and kill anyone who enters the Perseus Veil.
The Heretics, who are indistinguishable from the real Geth, start attacking organics.
If I were you, I'd think that the Geth are pretty ****ing hostile at this point.
We learn that there are two factions of Geth
Tali informs the admiralty board of the actual Geth
The admiralty board does not trust their three hundred year old enemy that does not even make their own attempt at peace.
The Quarians attack the Geth in an attempt to take back their home world by force.
Peace is the only option here. Choosing either side over the other just means that you're unfit to make such a decision.

[KingZayd]

Calinstel wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Wondering something.
Quarians initiated a surprise attack on the geth.
geth decide to align themselves with the Reapers (after the attack)

Um, Rannoch's skies were a war zone, so just when/how did the Reaper destroyer make it to Rannochs surface AND have a facility built to house it underground, secretly?

Seems the geth didn't mind having a Reaper in the neighbor long before they were attacked.

But, I'm just asking a question, not trying to prove anything.

The Quarians didn't attack Rannoch immediately. They'd been taking back Geth space for a while leading up to the attack on Rannoch

Then the quarians initiated the attacks well before the Reaper invasion?

It was after the Reapers invaded the Milky Way. And I believe before the Reapers attacked Earth and Palaven.

[KingZayd]

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
There is no reason to believe that the Geth WOULD have joined the Reapers if the Quarians hadn't ruined their plans.
The Quarians created another ally to the Reapers by attacking the Geth. The Quarians have created Reaper allies just as often as the Geth have joined the Reapers.

The geth have historically joined the Reapers, and I would expect hem to do so again if given the opportunity.

The quarians have created Reaper allies, but only the geth themselves.  Exterminating the quarians won't solve the problem.  Destroying the geth solves the problem once and for all.

The Quarians have made the Geth into Reaper allies twice. Exterminating the Quarians will prevent them from doing it a third time. Destroying the Geth doesn't stop the Quarians from being who they are.

I am sorry, but....are you ****ing stupid? The only reason why the Quarians attacked the Geth the second time is because the Geth made it seem like peace with them was out of the question. Were the Geth clear about their intentions (e.g. not shooting down anyone who entered the Perseus Veil), the Quarians would not have attacked. Peace would have meant having Rannoch back, more forces against the Reapers, and no dumb conflict in the middle of the goddamned Reaper War.

Are you?!

Did the Quarians make it seem like peace was attainable? Were the Quarians clear about any peaceful intentions?

The entire mentality of wanting to take back Rannoch by force was due to the fact that the Geth appeared to be hostile! Do you not get it?
Ship enters Perseus Veil. Ship is shot down. Everyone who enters dies. Later, the Heretics start attacking organics while working for the Reapers. Prior to meeting Legion, the consensus was that Geth are hostile to organics.
Is there any part of that that would make you believe even for a second that the Geth wanted peace?

Nope. The entire mentality was them wanting to take back Rannoch, and not seeing the Geth as anything more than machines.

Did the Quarians not destroy any Geth they saw? What aspect of Quarian behaviour would make the Geth believe even for a second that the Quarians wanted peace?

Do you not get it?

Do I have to go over their history for you?

Quarians are kicked off Rannoch, only a few of them remain.
Council refuses to help and kicks the Quarians off the Council for creating the Geth
Council attempts to contact the Geth
Geth shoot them down and kill anyone who enters the Perseus Veil.
The Heretics, who are indistinguishable from the real Geth, start attacking organics.
If I were you, I'd think that the Geth are pretty ****ing hostile at this point.
We learn that there are two factions of Geth
Tali informs the admiralty board of the actual Geth
The admiralty board does not trust their three hundred year old enemy that does not even make their own attempt at peace.
The Quarians attack the Geth in an attempt to take back their home world by force.
Peace is the only option here. Choosing either side over the other just means that you're unfit to make such a decision.

Where have you explained why the Geth would not see any Organic ships invading their space as an invasion. The fact that any Geth outside the Perseus Veil, gets shot at doesn't do much to suggest that the Quarians are ready for peace either? What peaceful gestures have the Quarians made?

I chose peace. But if peace is unattainable, you HAVE to choose one.

[D4rkSektor]

KingZayd wrote...
Where have you explained why the Geth would not see any Organic ships invading their space as an invasion. The fact that any Geth outside the Perseus Veil, gets shot at doesn't do much to suggest that the Quarians are ready for peace either? What peaceful gestures have the Quarians made?

I chose peace. But if peace is unattainable, you HAVE to choose one.

If the Council were flying into Geth space, they'd attempt to contact the Geth, i.e. not an invasion. And as I've said many times now, the Heretics, which were seemingly the only faction of Geth, attacked organics. As in, they are hostile. What does that mean? It means that you bet your ass that organics are going to fight back. The Quarians didn't consider peace because of that.

[KingZayd]

Calinstel wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Wondering something.
Quarians initiated a surprise attack on the geth.
geth decide to align themselves with the Reapers (after the attack)

Um, Rannoch's skies were a war zone, so just when/how did the Reaper destroyer make it to Rannochs surface AND have a facility built to house it underground, secretly?

Seems the geth didn't mind having a Reaper in the neighbor long before they were attacked.

But, I'm just asking a question, not trying to prove anything.

The Quarians didn't attack Rannoch immediately. They'd been taking back Geth space for a while leading up to the attack on Rannoch

Then the quarians initiated the attacks well before the Reaper invasion?

It was after the Reapers invaded the Milky Way. And I believe before the Reapers attacked Earth and Palaven.

So, it was before the actual war.  Batarian space doesn't count as that was lost 6 months or so prior.

Now, Admiral Gerrel or was it Admiral Raan, stated the war with the geth started 17 days prior to Shepard meeting them.  17 days for the geth to contact the Reapers, build a facility to house one and then let a Reaper land on Rannoch.  Yet still alost their entire dyson sphere get blown up before the Reapers help?

It does not add up.  The Reaper must have been on Rannoch well before the Migrant fleet entered the system or they would have known about it.  Since the Dyson Sphere was destroyed only after the fleet entered Tikkun, the geth were not aligned (controlled) by the Reaper as shown by the quarians actually winning at this point.

So my issue goes back to the original issue.  The geth had already aligned themselves with the Reapers before Legion indicates they needed to.

Wait.. why are we starting the 17 days before Shepard met the quarians, and not at any point in the 6 months before? You lost me on that step.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 décembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[KingZayd]

D4rkSektor wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
Where have you explained why the Geth would not see any Organic ships invading their space as an invasion. The fact that any Geth outside the Perseus Veil, gets shot at doesn't do much to suggest that the Quarians are ready for peace either? What peaceful gestures have the Quarians made?

I chose peace. But if peace is unattainable, you HAVE to choose one.

If the Council were flying into Geth space, they'd attempt to contact the Geth, i.e. not an invasion. And as I've said many times now, the Heretics, which were seemingly the only faction of Geth, attacked organics. As in, they are hostile. What does that mean? It means that you bet your ass that organics are going to fight back. The Quarians didn't consider peace because of that.

Or spying. Why not try and broadcast messages from outside Geth space?

The Quarians never considered peace, the Quarians have always been hostile. If the Quarians have made no attempt to initate peace, and still refuse to consider Geth validity, why would the Geth see them as ready to make peace?