170 réponses à ce sujet

[Fukairi]

I'm really kind of horrified everytime I scan through the DA II (or DA III speculation) posts about characters that should return and I see isabela and merril pop up multiple times.

I mean, as a woman who plays videogames I would really love a well thought out female character that was not just made thinking of the male audience only. I really like the romance part of the game, and it really saddens me that the romance options are always the less interesting ones. I'm so sick of looking the over-bent anatomy and boob windows/ belly button armor and rogues with no pants on jfc. Not to mention the personality for romanceable characters that tends to range from the moemoemoe innocent types (with maybe a little bit evil in them because that makes up all the flaws right?) to the sultry ****es. Really?


Okay I'm maybe being harsh, but I think bioware has been really on top of the not-so-popular trend of portraying women as more than just objects or prizes in video games, which has always made me happy. But there is so much room for improvement yet.

[upsettingshorts]

If ever there was a character conceived whose pantslessness was reflected in their personality, it's Isabela.

Also really, are we going to **** shame her in the OP and inaccurately write Merrill off as "innocent" because she has big eyes in the same breath?

There are better targets for your criticisms, they just happen to be in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:48 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

tbf all the character bar Varric were awful in DA2. Is it so much to ask for a well fleshed out character that isn't a moron and doesn't want to hump everything that moves.

[Fukairi]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If ever there was a character conceived whose pantslessness was reflected in their personality, it's Isabela.

Also really, are we going to **** shame her in the OP and inaccurately write Merrill off as "innocent" because she has big eyes in the same breath?

There are better targets for your criticisms, they just happen to be in Mass Effect.

Yes well, seeing as this is the DA forum I thought to keep (ugh liara) the women of ME out of this.

If we are going to talk about more deserving characters of my critism, the list will go on untill the end of time I can assure you. Contradicting my argument like that is almost the same as countering that "but men are portayed poorly too!" which as a stand alone argument is true and deserving of discussion, but it doesn't lessen the value of the critisism on the portayal of women. But again I stress, this is about the previous two games and I thought I'd share my thoughts seeing the new game is in developement yet.

DinoSteve wrote...

tbf all the character bar Varric were
awful in DA2. Is it so much to ask for a well fleshed out character that
isn't a moron and doesn't want to hump everything that moves.

I hear you. I rather liked Aveline though and the qunari. but the romanceables oh the horror.

Modifié par Fukairi, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

Yeah I hear ya...
They are indeed improving ....a little I mean they did a good job with Cassandra. Won't be seeing her wearing breast revealing armor.

Modifié par PinkDiamondstl, 04 décembre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Dhiro]

But I thought that one of the points of Isabela's arc was that even under the clothes and the sex she is also a complex human being? And that there is no shame in liking sex? Both Isabela and Aveline score very high on my strong, independent female character list.

[Steppenwolf]

Robot ******!

Just had to get that out of my system.

[Fox In The Box]

I don't think the female characters in DA were made "just" for the male audience. Isabela, especially, was amazing as a female character. Not only for having an interesting relationship with the other female NPC's (she's very pro-woman), but also for being extremely confident in herself and her sexuality and her flaws - she actually made me more accepting of my own flaws even though I'm not a whole lot like her.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 04 décembre 2012 - 09:01 .

[BubbleDncr]

I'm a girl. I don't mind the portrayal of female characters in Dragon Age. Mass Effect is a different story, but Dragon Age seems to do a good enough job.

[cJohnOne]

I'm not really into romances but I wouldn't mind having a big boobed Isabela as a girlfriend instead of merrill. Did you state what exactly you didn't like about them, I'm confused. Being Pandered to as a guy is nice. I'd like more of that. I really think I'm missing the point of the thread!

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Meh, it's just one of Bioware's biggest cliche to have an ice queen per series.

[Fukairi]

Dhiro wrote...

But I thought that one of the points of Isabela's arc was that even under the clothes and the sex she is also a complex human being? And that there is no shame in liking sex? Both Isabela and Aveline score very high on my strong, independent female character list.

It's been a while since I played isabela's arc through, and I only did it once since I disliked the character so much. But I have a free weekend so I'll play it through and get back to you on that, since I really don't remember the whole, deep and complex character part. But I could be wrong. So I'll right now just take issue on the clothing.

Even if her character is portrayed as someone who likes sex but (acclaimedly) a well thought character not just there for the male audiences entertainment, there is no logic to having a close range combat npc dress up in.... a shirt. and shoes. The rogue men don't flaunter around without armour, so why should she?

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Meh, it's just one of Bioware's biggest cliche to have an ice queen per series.

They can have an Ice Queen all they want, as long as the character is well written and isn't Hawke sexual you won't hear me complain.

[Dhiro]

Fukairi wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

But I thought that one of the points of Isabela's arc was that even under the clothes and the sex she is also a complex human being? And that there is no shame in liking sex? Both Isabela and Aveline score very high on my strong, independent female character list.

It's been a while since I played isabela's arc through, and I only did it once since I disliked the character so much. But I have a free weekend so I'll play it through and get back to you on that, since I really don't remember the whole, deep and complex character part. But I could be wrong. So I'll right now just take issue on the clothing.

Even if her character is portrayed as someone who likes sex but (acclaimedly) a well thought character not just there for the male audiences entertainment, there is no logic to having a close range combat npc dress up in.... a shirt. and shoes. The rogue men don't flaunter around without armour, so why should she?

Hm... have you seen Varric's armor? His entire chest is exposed. In DA II, the companion armors are used to tell something about the character, to let you look at them and grasp at their personality. Video-games are also a visual media, after all.

[Iakus]

Fukairi wrote...

I'm really kind of horrified everytime I scan through the DA II (or DA III speculation) posts about characters that should return and I see isabela and merril pop up multiple times.

I mean, as a woman who plays videogames I would really love a well thought out female character that was not just made thinking of the male audience only. I really like the romance part of the game, and it really saddens me that the romance options are always the less interesting ones. I'm so sick of looking the over-bent anatomy and boob windows/ belly button armor and rogues with no pants on jfc. Not to mention the personality for romanceable characters that tends to range from the moemoemoe innocent types (with maybe a little bit evil in them because that makes up all the flaws right?) to the sultry ****es. Really?


Okay I'm maybe being harsh, but I think bioware has been really on top of the not-so-popular trend of portraying women as more than just objects or prizes in video games, which has always made me happy. But there is so much room for improvement yet.

As a male gamer, I actually somewhat agree. At least as faqr as female appearances go

The characters themselves are interesting enough, but yes there is definitely a trend of gioving them oversexualized appreances.  Mass Effect, especially the second and third games, are far worse, but it's definitely in Dragon Age as well.

Isabela is definitely the worst offender.  I found it amazing how much more receptive I was to having her in my party after using a mod to replace her white tunic and pantslesness with a black blouse and leather pants.

And it was quite...interesting...to compare the appearance of leather armor on Zevran, and the same outfit on Leliana.  Apparantly her upper chest and belly are immune to blades.

[Fukairi]

Dhiro wrote...

Fukairi wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

But I thought that one of the points of Isabela's arc was that even under the clothes and the sex she is also a complex human being? And that there is no shame in liking sex? Both Isabela and Aveline score very high on my strong, independent female character list.

It's been a while since I played isabela's arc through, and I only did it once since I disliked the character so much. But I have a free weekend so I'll play it through and get back to you on that, since I really don't remember the whole, deep and complex character part. But I could be wrong. So I'll right now just take issue on the clothing.

Even if her character is portrayed as someone who likes sex but (acclaimedly) a well thought character not just there for the male audiences entertainment, there is no logic to having a close range combat npc dress up in.... a shirt. and shoes. The rogue men don't flaunter around without armour, so why should she?

Hm... have you seen Varric's armor? His entire chest is exposed. In DA II, the companion armors are used to tell something about the character, to let you look at them and grasp at their personality. Video-games are also a visual media, after all.

Yes well, I stated before that I do think the men could use some work too in another reply (it was subtle), but this is about the portrayal of the female characters. But yes, I found varric's shirt to be a tad ridiculous, but he is a ranged unit. Isabela is again, close combat. I am not asking for all the women to wear heavy plate and helmets so you can't make anything out of them, but a little less fan-service and a bit more realism would be nice. You can't honestly argue that there was no way that isabela could've wore pants and shown less clleveage and still show off some personality.

[Islandrockzor]

iakus wrote...

Fukairi wrote...

I'm really kind of horrified everytime I scan through the DA II (or DA III speculation) posts about characters that should return and I see isabela and merril pop up multiple times.

I mean, as a woman who plays videogames I would really love a well thought out female character that was not just made thinking of the male audience only. I really like the romance part of the game, and it really saddens me that the romance options are always the less interesting ones. I'm so sick of looking the over-bent anatomy and boob windows/ belly button armor and rogues with no pants on jfc. Not to mention the personality for romanceable characters that tends to range from the moemoemoe innocent types (with maybe a little bit evil in them because that makes up all the flaws right?) to the sultry ****es. Really?


Okay I'm maybe being harsh, but I think bioware has been really on top of the not-so-popular trend of portraying women as more than just objects or prizes in video games, which has always made me happy. But there is so much room for improvement yet.

As a male gamer, I actually somewhat agree. At least as faqr as female appearances go

The characters themselves are interesting enough, but yes there is definitely a trend of gioving them oversexualized appreances.  Mass Effect, especially the second and third games, are far worse, but it's definitely in Dragon Age as well.

Isabela is definitely the worst offender.  I found it amazing how much more receptive I was to having her in my party after using a mod to replace her white tunic and pantslesness with a black blouse and leather pants.

And it was quite...interesting...to compare the appearance of leather armor on Zevran, and the same outfit on Leliana.  Apparantly her upper chest and belly are immune to blades.

Honestly, I always saw Mass Effect 1 as the worst of them. The way Liara would suddenly turn the discussion to Asari mating and throw herself at you... It just didn't have the depth of the other romances, many of which also of questionable quality.

On the other hand, Miranda Lawson... Don't get me started on her. Jack I kinda warmed up on, though, although her story is riddled with a little too much abuse for me to feel comfortable round the character.

Game 3 had Traynor and the journalist chick, who I really didn't like, even if the devs seemed to want me to. The incredible mess of the Virmire survivor romance (especially if started in game 1 and no other started in 2) did come off to me as a good one though. Perhaps that's just my personal view that love is a messy thing shining through... Cause of that I didn't mind Ashley, even if her appearance had been sexualized a bit.

[Dhiro]

Fukairi wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Fukairi wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

But I thought that one of the points of Isabela's arc was that even under the clothes and the sex she is also a complex human being? And that there is no shame in liking sex? Both Isabela and Aveline score very high on my strong, independent female character list.

It's been a while since I played isabela's arc through, and I only did it once since I disliked the character so much. But I have a free weekend so I'll play it through and get back to you on that, since I really don't remember the whole, deep and complex character part. But I could be wrong. So I'll right now just take issue on the clothing.

Even if her character is portrayed as someone who likes sex but (acclaimedly) a well thought character not just there for the male audiences entertainment, there is no logic to having a close range combat npc dress up in.... a shirt. and shoes. The rogue men don't flaunter around without armour, so why should she?

Hm... have you seen Varric's armor? His entire chest is exposed. In DA II, the companion armors are used to tell something about the character, to let you look at them and grasp at their personality. Video-games are also a visual media, after all.

Yes well, I stated before that I do think the men could use some work too in another reply (it was subtle), but this is about the portrayal of the female characters. But yes, I found varric's shirt to be a tad ridiculous, but he is a ranged unit. Isabela is again, close combat. I am not asking for all the women to wear heavy plate and helmets so you can't make anything out of them, but a little less fan-service and a bit more realism would be nice. You can't honestly argue that there was no way that isabela could've wore pants and shown less clleveage and still show off some personality.

Not at all. However, as I see Isabela's clothes as simply an extension of her personality, I really don't care about realism that much.

[Fukairi]

iakus wrote...

Fukairi wrote...

I'm really kind of horrified everytime I scan through the DA II (or DA III speculation) posts about characters that should return and I see isabela and merril pop up multiple times.

I mean, as a woman who plays videogames I would really love a well thought out female character that was not just made thinking of the male audience only. I really like the romance part of the game, and it really saddens me that the romance options are always the less interesting ones. I'm so sick of looking the over-bent anatomy and boob windows/ belly button armor and rogues with no pants on jfc. Not to mention the personality for romanceable characters that tends to range from the moemoemoe innocent types (with maybe a little bit evil in them because that makes up all the flaws right?) to the sultry ****es. Really?


Okay I'm maybe being harsh, but I think bioware has been really on top of the not-so-popular trend of portraying women as more than just objects or prizes in video games, which has always made me happy. But there is so much room for improvement yet.

As a male gamer, I actually somewhat agree. At least as faqr as female appearances go

The characters themselves are interesting enough, but yes there is definitely a trend of gioving them oversexualized appreances.  Mass Effect, especially the second and third games, are far worse, but it's definitely in Dragon Age as well.

Isabela is definitely the worst offender.  I found it amazing how much more receptive I was to having her in my party after using a mod to replace her white tunic and pantslesness with a black blouse and leather pants.

And it was quite...interesting...to compare the appearance of leather armor on Zevran, and the same outfit on Leliana.  Apparantly her upper chest and belly are immune to blades.

I laughed so hard when I put the leather armour on leliana. Seriously, it was so unnecessary.

I really found Merril boring. Same as I did Leliana.  I tried both romances on merril and both genders (and hard/off) on Leliana but there was nothing that would interest me really. They were both good girls gone bad ( or in Leliana's case, bad girl gone good and bad again) and I found their storyarc really tiresome and the characters very cliched. Merril was the worse from these two though, her whole this is bad I am doing but it's ultimately for a good purpose is so overused and ugh, her stupidity with the mirror just reminded me so badly of tamlen from the dalish origins.

Warden: no tamlen we should not go in to the creepy cave
Tamlen : Yes we shall *enter the cave without player's consent*
Warden: Tamlen no, do not touch the mirror
Tamlen: Oo but it is so shiny!
Warden: No no no no no let's just go
Tamlen: shiny.....
Warden: Do not touch it. I mean it
Tamlen :*touches the mirror*
Warden: god ****ing damnit.

[Dhiro]

I personally find Merrill much more deep than most people give her credit for - though I do think her naiveté was handled a little too heavy at times.

In any case, this link has some really great info about character design and sex appeal. It even mentions Isabela.

[cJohnOne]

I think realism helps a world come to life so like it more then not. What's your view on more realistic art styles?

[upsettingshorts]

Fukairi wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If ever there was a character conceived whose pantslessness was reflected in their personality, it's Isabela.

Also really, are we going to **** shame her in the OP and inaccurately write Merrill off as "innocent" because she has big eyes in the same breath?

There are better targets for your criticisms, they just happen to be in Mass Effect.

Yes well, seeing as this is the DA forum I thought to keep (ugh liara) the women of ME out of this.

If we are going to talk about more deserving characters of my critism, the list will go on untill the end of time I can assure you. Contradicting my argument like that is almost the same as countering that "but men are portayed poorly too!" which as a stand alone argument is true and deserving of discussion, but it doesn't lessen the value of the critisism on the portayal of women. But again I stress, this is about the previous two games and I thought I'd share my thoughts seeing the new game is in developement yet.

No, it isn't.  It really, really isn't.

[Dhiro]

cJohnOne wrote...

I think realism helps a world come to life so like it more then not. What's your view on more realistic art styles?

Mine, or Fukairi's?

[Avaflame]

As a male I suppose any opinion I might have to offer if considered moot, but I haven't seen an issue in the way women are portrayed in Dragon Age. I suppose I can understand the grievances people have with, say, Morrigan and Isabela's physical appearance, but imo the way they dress reflects their character. As opposed to say, Miranda, with who I sometimes felt her butt got more screentime than her face. And dress choice aside, those two are both very strong characters. And Aveline was my favourite character in DA2, though I'm not sure whether you're just speaking in terms of romanceable characters.

[Maria Caliban]

Fukairi wrote...

I mean, as a woman who plays videogames I would really love a well thought out female character that was not just made thinking of the male audience only.

You mean like Leliana, Wynne, Morrigan, Isabela, Aveline, and Merril?

I agree.