611 réponses à ce sujet

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Pretty simple.


80% damage bonus
Doesn't give a f'ck about cooldowns
Invisibility

and how does this make her a better Soldier than the Human Soldier, Turian Soldier, or N7 Destroyer?

All of which I might add, give as much of a f*** about cooldowns as the Infiltrators do.

They don't have invisibility, or an aggro drop.

I did a duo with stardusk, and I cloaked near 3 assault troopers. They all instantly stopped shooting at me and walked away. Stardusk was on the other side of the map.

So damage + survivability, and of course, the damage itself leads to higher survivability; as killing something before it can kill you is a great way to stay alive.

[Feneckus]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

A Javelin GI can kill 2 Atlases in 5-6s if one is right behind the other. Happens quite often.

[Blarg]

Lathrim wrote...

sca462069 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

Well, now we know what topic brings out the worst in people. I have never seen the top players and forumites fighting among each other this much before.

Well, this is a fight that's existed since launch day. To this day the Infiltrators are the first class to get a nerf applied on to all of it's characters. Yet people still ask for more. Really, giving a character that has the Tac Cloak power Stim Packs was not a very sound move. It's pretty much giving a character the best damage output and the best survivability. No bueno. That one character on that one class is what makes it bad. The GI is debateable since it has really low health and shields.

And even then he still has amazing survivability due to TC and Hunter Mode. Health/Shields numbers do not tell the whole story.

Sorry, I don't play Geth much. But how does hunter mode & tactical cloak increase your survivability? 

Tactical Cloak allows to bypass enemies without being shot at and/or hit, be it simply to change your position or revive a teammate. Hunter Mode allows you to see through walls. Play your cards right and you'll hardly ever be flanked because you'll know the exact position of any and every enemy who closes in on you before they actually do it.

Higher health/shield numbers certainly help, but quite frankly, I'd rather play a 6/6/6/6/0 GI than a, say, 6/6/0(stickies)/6/6 Human Infiltrator based on survivability. Damage output too, but that's not really relevant to what you and I are talking about.

See what I mean? I make one harmless, unrelated comment, and we're back to arguing. Welcome to BSN.

I hate you guys sometimes. 

[ForThessia]

My Huntress is beautiful. Go away OP.

[BridgeBurner]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

A Javelin GI can kill 2 Atlases in 5-6s if one is right behind the other. Happens quite often.

 

>implying I don't know this.

Come on Feneckus, you really think you can get off 3 Javelin shots in the same time as it takes a HS to drop an Atlas' shields? 

I really don't get where the sudden hate has come from. And I don't get why people complain about infiltrators when there are true easy mode classes like the Bat Soldier, Destroyer, Drell Adept, Asariguard, etc. out there. (Grenade classes basically). 

TC is probably a bit too powerful in terms of the damage boost it gives, but the reason for that is it does jack in terms of actually cloaking you.

Don't try to tell me it works, because if you do I'll demand you play a game against Geth with just me and you, and we'll see just how well TC works at cloaking us. 

Well, perhaps grenade capacity V should be removed then, in addition to balancing cloak?

No skin off my back, I run shocktrooper on the BatSol.

[Hurkaleez]

Feneckus wrote...
ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Agreed.

BUT you said something to the effect that the TGI(Ghost) had low damage output? You have been doing it wrong, had a level 1 get 240k in Plat game with me last week. TGI is the highest dps'ing char. 

Infiltrators are just wrong the way they operate, stealth(dump aggro onto teammates) + highest dps in game means every noob plays them and scores well thinking "Hey, I'm good!" which of course they are not. 

[mrs_anomaly]

All of these "balancing" arguments for multiplayer are really compelling for the idea of moving on to another game. Blah.

I think things need to be balanced but the cloak for infiltrators while wondrous- every single time I play I hear an infiltrator get sync grabbed while cloaked, meleed while cloaked, or mobs chasing them while cloaked I hear- "ah wow I was cloaked and yet I enemies STILL see me". The cloak is not infallible and only truly good players can manage to outscore the other more beefy classes with the infiltrators.

Personally I actually score higher with Adepts than I do Infiltrators, sure that is purely an anecdotal statement but my point is if you're playing a sniper you must have decent accuracy for it to truly pay off. Not every infiltrator out there favors the shotgun builds.

Anyway- they already nerfed the TC significantly. It still works nicely- I can still manage to do all the things I enjoyed doing before the major nerf such as being the team medic/objective completer.

I don't even see many infiltrators in Gold or Platinum pugs. The only one I've seen with any high usage lately is the new Huntress or the Havoc.

[Cyonan]

Annomander wrote...

They don't have invisibility, or an aggro drop.

I did a duo with stardusk, and I cloaked near 3 assault troopers. They all instantly stopped shooting at me and walked away. Stardusk was on the other side of the map.

So damage + survivability, and of course, the damage itself leads to higher survivability; as killing something before it can kill you is a great way to stay alive.

But the Human Soldier. Turian Soldier, and N7 Destroyer can all put out more damage than the QFI.

So really all TC actually has is an aggro drop which leads to less things wanting to do terrible things to you.

[Derp88]

The thing is, the infiltrator is the equivalent to the rogue class of D&D. I think their DPS should be higher than soldiers, because soldiers are the equivalent of warriors (higher shields/survivability, but lower DPS).

However, TC is indeed too powerful and I do agree I think Bioware have let Infiltrators overtake too many classes because of the TC mechanics. It's not really going to change now though.

[Pedro Costa]

I'll say this again: The problem with Infiltrators isn't the insane damage boost nor the aggro drop from TC.
It is being able to "cheat" the weight system into giving them 3 sec cooldowns on the power and being able to fire a power from cloak without having spec'd into the bonus power evolution. And still getting the cloak bonuses for a bit after the power ended.
This is what gives them ridiculous utility and damage and what makes them ill balanced.

[Hellraiser2002]

I have to say I entirely understand all of the logic behind your post, but I'm also going to say Infiltrators are still my favorite class to play - I simply love that playstyle. In Skyrim I played a thief/assassin, in GW2 I mained a ranger, etc. I just love being able to deal massive amounts of damage from range, yet be useful when your team needs you.

With that out of the way, I'm going to say that I don't think TC should effectively reset cooldowns like it does currently, if you use a power to break cloak you should get the powers cooldown, but if you use a gun you should get the relative TC cooldown. I'm not extremely impacted by the nerfs that have stemmed mainly from Infiltrators, but I can understand why it'd be frustrating. Some of the guns that have been nerfed would have been regardless(Both Piranha and Krysae) but the nerfs that hurt other kits of the same species are bad(Geth and the Stimpack one) and should be looked in to.

I feel like the only Infiltrators that are really above all the other kits in the game are the GI and TGI, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a rebalancing of the class as a whole, even though it's already partially had one.

[ObserverStatus]

IKR? Infiltrators are like the second worst class in the game. I prefer MAX and heavy assault myself. Still, they're not as bad as light assault, those jump jets they have are just too gimicky, not nearly as useful as the tools engineers and combat medics have.

Modifié par bobobo878, 05 décembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Derp88]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I'll say this again: The problem with Infiltrators isn't the insane damage boost nor the aggro drop from TC.
It is being able to "cheat" the weight system into giving them 3 sec cooldowns on the power and being able to fire a power from cloak without having spec'd into the bonus power evolution. And still getting the cloak bonuses for a bit after the power ended.
This is what gives them ridiculous utility and damage and what makes them ill balanced.

Yeah exactly. Would be fairer if you uncloaked immediately after using a power, have the CD of said power, and didn't get the damage bonus for that CD duration.

[Feneckus]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Come on Feneckus, you really think you can get off 3 Javelin shots in the same time as it takes a HS to drop an Atlas' shields?

Tested with Fraps :

Human Soldier, Typhoon X, AP Ammo IV, Assault Rifle Amp III, Assault Rifle Amp V --> Takes 3.6s to drop its shields, 7.02s to kill it

GI, Javelin X, Phasic Rounds III, Sniper Rifle Amp III, Sniper Rifle Amp V --> 5.28s to kill it

I wasn't that far off. The difference might be bigger with a Claymore HS. I'd test it if I weren't so damn low on shotgun amps 

And I don't get why people complain about infiltrators when there are true easy mode classes like the Bat Soldier, Destroyer, Drell Adept, Asariguard, etc. out there. (Grenade classes basically).

Apart from the Destroyer, those classes are not as "easy mode" as infiltrators. There's a reason why you barely see any Drell Adepts in PUGs (and when you do, they usually suck).

TC is probably a bit too powerful in terms of the damage boost it gives, but the reason for that is it does jack in terms of actually cloaking you.

Incinerate doesn't make you invisible, does it mean it needs to activate a 80% damage bonus as well ? While ignoring cooldown bonuses ?

cause if you do I'll demand you play a game against Geth with just me and you

Hmm, who's hosting then ? 

[Clayless]

I can't believe some people here are complaining about the Infiltrator getting damage bonuses, it's like they've forgotten it's Tech + Combat.

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan wrote...

Annomander wrote...

They don't have invisibility, or an aggro drop.

I did a duo with stardusk, and I cloaked near 3 assault troopers. They all instantly stopped shooting at me and walked away. Stardusk was on the other side of the map.

So damage + survivability, and of course, the damage itself leads to higher survivability; as killing something before it can kill you is a great way to stay alive.

But the Human Soldier. Turian Soldier, and N7 Destroyer can all put out more damage than the QFI.

So really all TC actually has is an aggro drop which leads to less things wanting to do terrible things to you.

Soldiers should be able to lay down lots of damage with weapons though, that's the whole idea, thats what makes them unique, instead of "that dude with a gun". Infiltrators get to have their cake, and eat it, so to speak.

[K_O_513]

There are no "easy mode" classes. I've seen plenty of sucky players who use classes that supposedly guarantee victory

[Kinom001]

To wit;

- am I tired of Infiltrators? No. I suck at sniping but I enjoy playing the characters and appreciate when a good one is on the squad.

- tactical cloak is exactly what it says it is; tactical. Stating that it's an overwhelming advantage is simply overstating the case, not to mention hysterical hyperbole.

[Sammorbai]

X-Frame wrote...

I still don't understand why there is a weapon damage bonus to cloak anyway. They're better soldiers than Soldiers are.

The thought is that a stealth-oriented individual has the time to look at the opponent's defenses, find a gap, and precisely place an attack into that gap.  Unfortunately ME3 (and a lot of games for that matter) don't use a complicated enough damage model to appropriately simulate that: you get bonus damage for hitting your opponent in the head, but not for putting a shot through any other vital organ or through one of those lovely little gaps in the armor that are required for it to be articulated (the armpit, the elbow, the back of the knee, etc).  So, to compensate for the fact that you can't actually place most of the high-damage shots that a stealth character taking their time should be able to, you get an ability that gives you a flat bonus to damage under certain conditions.

[Astronaughte]

Nope

[landylan]

I was all for the TC nerf at the beginning of the game, but when they nerfed it, they barely did anything. They're ridiculous. I only play them on platinum, and I don't even feel like I'm playing platinum with them.

Whenever you said they have great survivability, you forgot to mention the TGI....

Sabotage should be buffed for the quarian marksman. The cooldown won't really change for the QFI, and her damage output with it will basically be the same.

They would've been much cooler if they had powers like C4 or some kind of deployable traps that can be set near enemies while they're cloaked. The invisible damage bonus doesn't even make sense.

[Feneckus]

Rad_Rage wrote...

There are no "easy mode" classes. I've seen plenty of sucky players who use classes that supposedly guarantee victory

Imagine how useless those players would have been with a Batarian Sentinel or even a Drell Vanguard.

[Alien Number Six]

A good infiltator is a asset to any platnum or gold team. Get over yourself OP and start being a team player.

[jaytm1]

Never.