611 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathIsHere]

SpockLives wrote...

BACON4BREAKFIST wrote...

Too much BS to shift through, but a lot of other classes can do just as well if you use them right.

Then please explain to me which other classes can be used to complete 10 minute platinum speed runs?  Because so far, it hasn't been done without Infiltrators.

The ability to outscore a random person playing Infiltrator while you are playing something else does not translate to other classes being just as powerful.  Just means random people are unskilled.

You can turn that argument right around. Just because skilled people can do those runs with infiltrators and maybe nothing else doesn't mean infiltrators are all around better than any other class. It just means they're good at what they're supposed to be good at: spike damage. They damage very quickly and they're supposed to, the trade off, as others have mentioned, is the fact that they typically have low health/shields. The fact that somebody is good enough to negate this doesn't mean everybody else can. The game should be balanced around the average player and the average player doesn't laugh at those disadvantages like speedrunners do.

[heybigmoney]

Assassin classes are supposed to be about rewarding patience, biding your time, and killing your enemy in a single well placed shot. Not spamming 80% dmg bonus and powers for 2.5 seconds every 3 seconds. As it is currently they should just rename the class to john rambo.

I like the suggestions to increase cloak's minimum cooldown.

[Operator m1]

SpockLives wrote...

BACON4BREAKFIST wrote...

Too much BS to shift through, but a lot of other classes can do just as well if you use them right.

Then please explain to me which other classes can be used to complete 10 minute platinum speed runs?  Because so far, it hasn't been done without Infiltrators.

The ability to outscore a random person playing Infiltrator while you are playing something else does not translate to other classes being just as powerful.  Just means random people are unskilled.

That means infiltrators are better at moving from spawn to spawn while sustaining less resistance. The class name sort of implies that's what they should be able to do...

Btw, expecting class changes over an extremely tiny fraction of the playerbase being able to clear platinum in 10 minutes is nothing short of silly. Random people playing this game is usually where the balancing happens.

Modifié par Operator m1, 05 décembre 2012 - 11:54 .

[megabeast37215]

How would the majority of you guys feel if you couldn't cast powers out of Tac Cloak ever? It would be JUST for weapon damage, and Infiltrators wouldn't get the free stagger out of their power to setup easy headshots. It would also force Tac Cloak to compete with other cooldowns.

It's an idea...

Modifié par megabeast37215, 06 décembre 2012 - 12:05 .

[Feneckus]

DeathIsHere wrote...

They damage very quickly and they're supposed to, the trade off, as others have mentioned, is the fact that they typically have low health/shields.

The GI has as much shields as the Geth Engineer.
The SI has as much shields as the Salarian Engineer.
The QMI has as much shields as the Quarian Engineer.
The Human Infiltrator has as much shields as the other non destroyer humans.

[SpockLives]

Speedruns are based on damage output. Infiltrators' total damage output is out of line with other classes.

Other classes get hurt every time a nerf attempts to bring Infiltrators into balance without addressing Tactical Cloak.

The Geth Infiltrator was OP, so they nerfed Hunter Mode. This nerf hurt the Engineer more than the Infiltrator. GI is still OP.

The Turian Ghost was OP, so they nerfed Stim Packs. This nerf hurt the Havoc more than the Ghost. TGI is still OP.

GI made the Krysae OP, so it got beaten to death with the nerf hammer. Result is that the GI is about the only character where the gun is usable.

GI made the Piranha OP, so it got nerfed. It is still a good gun, but the GI is still OP with it.

We haven't had a Harrier nerf yet, but the Ghost makes it look OP. Expect a Harrier nerf, and expect the TGI to continue to be OP with it.

The Point: Tactical Cloak imbalances the game. Guns cannot be balanced for other classes as long as TC remains in its current state. Powers shared between different classes cannot be balanced as long as an Infiltrator has that power.

[SpockLives]

Feneckus wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

They damage very quickly and they're supposed to, the trade off, as others have mentioned, is the fact that they typically have low health/shields.

The GI has as much shields as the Geth Engineer.
The SI has as much shields as the Salarian Engineer.
The QMI has as much shields as the Quarian Engineer.
The Human Infiltrator has as much shields as the other non destroyer humans.

Adding to this because it's good.

The Female Quarian Infiltrator has the same health and shields as the Engineer.
The N7 Shadow has the same health and shields as other non-Destoryer humans.
The Asari Huntress has the same health and shields as the Adept and Vanguard.
The Turian Ghost has the same health and shields as the Havoc.

Where is the squishiness?

[deafmedal1]

DeathIsHere wrote...
The fact that somebody is good enough to negate this doesn't mean everybody else can. The game should be balanced around the average player and the average player doesn't laugh at those disadvantages like speedrunners do.

I agree with this. I have played with the entire spectrum of players from leeches to suxors, glitchers to uber leet... The good are awesome with Infiltraitors and the bad are... well, bad. It IS an easy button for the better players, but then again what classes aren't? If you are at the point that playing Platnium with level 1 kits with common guns is easy, your opinion on balance is skewed. This game is easy to an extent, especially for those of us who have played since demo/launch, and the game should not be tweaked in our 'favor' so to speak.

A few months back I would never pug unless running an Infiltraitor, and even then it wasn't guaranteed success. Now? It probably wouldn't matter which class I picked and my success to failure rate would probably be the same as games with friends (save lag... that sh*t can doom me in pugs). Sometimes it's just fun face rolling fools with a Piranha/Raider/Claymore GI... I'd hate to see that taken away because some "pro" is mad that a 'crappy' class was made crappier because of his Infiltraitor cousin.

If anything us vets/pros... whatever, should be happy there is 'crappy' classes for the challenge. Not every class can be as good as the others, same with guns. And they shouldn't be. Perhaps this game has reached a point for some where there is nothing left to offer and it is time to move on? It's a game and it should be fun and I have fun playing Infiltraitors...

[megabeast37215]

megabeast37215 wrote...

How would the majority of you guys feel if you couldn't cast powers out of Tac Cloak ever? It would be JUST for weapon damage, and Infiltrators wouldn't get the free stagger out of their power to setup easy headshots. It would also force Tac Cloak to compete with other cooldowns.

It's an idea...

Feneckus... I'd really like to hear your opinion on this. Could the TC fix be this simple? The implications are far reaching...

[Operator m1]

Feneckus wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

They damage very quickly and they're supposed to, the trade off, as others have mentioned, is the fact that they typically have low health/shields.

The GI has as much shields as the Geth Engineer.
The SI has as much shields as the Salarian Engineer.
The QMI has as much shields as the Quarian Engineer.
The Human Infiltrator has as much shields as the other non destroyer humans.

The GI doesn't have a shield restoring turret, or instant shield rip power.
The SI doesn't have a decoy outside of dumping aggro on his squadmates, which aren't available all the time.
The quarian males I'll give you. Only difference between them is one has incinerate, and capable of power combos without an ammo power, which isn't much to write home about. Pretty sure they didn't give one of those two kits much thought at all.

tl;dr: different kits are different, m'kay?

Modifié par Operator m1, 06 décembre 2012 - 12:25 .

[Crimson Vanguard]

Stop blaming the Infiltrator. Blame Bioware for their brilliant designs

[Dimlor]

I'm sick of "I'm sick of" threads.

[NavySEALCommand]

megabeast37215 wrote...

How would the majority of you guys feel if you couldn't cast powers out of Tac Cloak ever? It would be JUST for weapon damage, and Infiltrators wouldn't get the free stagger out of their power to setup easy headshots. It would also force Tac Cloak to compete with other cooldowns.

It's an idea...

This.

Its pointless to try to nerf other powers when the real cause of the problem is Tac Cloak.

[nbiscuitz]

I say buff everything else!!!!!1111!!!one!!11

[Zjarcal]

sliverofamoon wrote...

I've been wondering what new nerf would bring back this s.hitstorm of people crying  to nerf TC even more than it has been already.

TC can still take a nerf or two and still be the best power in the game.

Amongst the many things that have been suggested (increasing the minimum cooldown or not being able to fire powers from it without the bonus power evo), I think TC could also impose a movement speed penalty in the same way devastator mode does. Makes sense when you consider you're supposed to be "sneaky" when cloaked.

[Sulaco_7]

megabeast37215 wrote...

How would the majority of you guys feel if you couldn't cast powers out of Tac Cloak ever? It would be JUST for weapon damage, and Infiltrators wouldn't get the free stagger out of their power to setup easy headshots. It would also force Tac Cloak to compete with other cooldowns.

It's an idea...

Is this just a theoretical idea or one for ME4 MP?  I don't see how this could be done without another patch, and I also don't see another patch coming.

They are limited to weekly balance updates, meaning all they can do is tweak numbers. 

[Abraham_uk]

Personally I have no problem with people using any kit.
There's lots of them and they all provide a bit of variety to what essencially is hoard mode.

But you're a strange person who is sick of infiltrators. Can't say I relate, but I do have a few helpfull tips for you.



Quick guide to avoid games with infiltrators.

• Only play with friends.
• Organise private matches.
• Make sure you tell them not to use any infiltrator characters.
• If they insist on using infiltrators, don't invite them to future games.

[Crimson Vanguard]

I wish that half of Infiltrators in my pug is as good as people in my friendlist

[Shad Croly]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Cloaks cooldown minimun of 3 seconds overides sabotages cooldown

I can get Sabotage down to 3.29 seconds without any Cloak cooldown finageling. It requires Structural Ergonomics V and a Power Efficiency Module IV, but it can be done.

[Zjarcal]

Shad Croly wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Cloaks cooldown minimun of 3 seconds overides sabotages cooldown

I can get Sabotage down to 3.29 seconds without any Cloak cooldown finageling. It requires Structural Ergonomics V and a Power Efficiency Module IV, but it can be done.

There's no power efficienty module IV... 

And it can be done (the low sabotage cooldown), but that still requires you to use a moderately light weapon. You'll never get that low of a cooldown with say, a Javelin.

[ToaOrka]

It's not my fault Bioware doesn't know how to properly balance their game.

Playing a Ghost with a Saber, cannot be tamed.

[Khranitel]

Seems you have very short memory, Feneckus.
Remember when you, Stardusk and some PUG got downed on wave 10 on Goddess/Cerberus/Gold? Who had saved that match for you? Yes, my good ol' Shadow, who did the objectives and kill whole spawn of enemies, including two Atlases. With pre-buffed Disciple.
You didn't sound sick of me after that wave, eh?
Forgetful, ungrateful Feneckus.

[Sinapus]

DJ Airsurfer wrote...

Invader Nemesis wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Then don't play them.

You don't see to get that Infiltrators make it that using any other class is obsolete.

Nonsense. The tactics between various classes and kits are different. If you have problem adjusting to one then that is your problem.

[Jamesui]

I'm starting to think the infiltrators should have been released with cloned versions of existing powers instead of shared versions. Then the support powers they get that can make them OP can be adjusted without castrating other classes in the process.

The justification can be that the tech supporting their cloak edges out the full versions of whatever powers stim packs/overload/hunter mode or whatever.

[Crimson Vanguard]

This is the root of all "evil"