611 réponses à ce sujet

[Nissun]

He does have a point:

Feneckus wrote...

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

This is a fact. The Turian Soldier is, well, a soldier. He is supposed to carry heavy weapons. Which can leave him with up to 7 second cooldown for his abilities. Proximity mine and Marksman have zero sinergy, while the Salarian and Geth infiltrators can use cloak and proximity mine seamlessly. That is just not fair.

[BridgeBurner]

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

Modifié par Annomander, 05 décembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[upinya slayin]

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

novaguard a tank? not anymoreso then other vangaurds. what about teh batguard? he's a tank. also the destroyer and the geth trooper are tanks.

also why do you need a tank? plent of squichy characters (drell adept for example) are awesome

[TheKillerAngel]

What if the Tactical Cloak was more like Mass Effect 2's?

[sandboxgod]

Feneckus wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Geth Infiltrator has more survivability than my N7 Paladin?

Maybe not the Paladin.

But the GI actually has great survivability because he can stagger enemies in a 4.5m radius every 3s, go invisible and of course he has hunter mode. 

Also, can we just stop pretending like it's the Infiltrator class as a whole and blame the 2 specific characters within it that it really is?

Just 2 ? I guess GI and TGI ? So you think the QMI/SI are fine ? 

IMO the only non-broken infiltrators are the Shadow and the Huntress.

Surely you jest? Those two infiltrators are broken though? The n7 shadow cant SS an Atlas anymore. This really hurts my old baby. The Huntress, as BioWare just confirmed, is broken too.

I dunno maybe you are one of those super talented GIs that can break into 200k in Gold. But the rest of us mortals can only avg around 140k if we're playing our good game. Are you talking from that perspective? I have to be careful talking to you veteran posters. too many of yall got maxed URs. I only got 1 max UR

[N7-RedFox]

When i get sick of infiltrators i simply stop playing them and choose another class. Oh... that's not what this post was about.

Stop whining >_<

[Farosyrn]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

Why don't we just make this some sort of CoD thing...only difference in kits & classes should be the looks! No powers, no skilltrees, just the weapon and your triggerfinger.

[BridgeBurner]

Farosyrn wrote...

Why don't we just make this some sort of CoD thing...only difference in kits & classes should be the looks! No powers, no skilltrees, just the weapon and your triggerfinger.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, cloak is far too powerful a tool as it currently stands. Feneckus raised some brilliant points.

No matter what way you look at it, infiltrators (take your pick) are the best characters at EVERYTHING.

Ghost: better damage than most soldiers, and survival than a krogan sentinel.

GI: better melee damage than a krogan, better damage output than any soldier.

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Modifié par Annomander, 05 décembre 2012 - 12:34 .

[SeanThen1]

The infiltrator class is flawed because of its 3 second cool down despite being -200% encumbered. That is not balanced, period. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

[MyryaSzataria]

Yay, yet another cry for people to get nerfed because they're good at what they do. Wanna see where this whole train of thought goes? Check out what happened to the professions in Star Wars Galaxies. One profession would get nerfed, then another, then another, until all of them were useless, some had been out-and-out removed from the game, and all because people were upset they weren't the best and most awesomest ever.

[RoundedPlanet88]

Annomander wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...

Why don't we just make this some sort of CoD thing...only difference in kits & classes should be the looks! No powers, no skilltrees, just the weapon and your triggerfinger.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, cloak is far too powerful a tool as it currently stands. Feneckus raised some brilliant points.

No matter what way you look at it, infiltrators (take your pick) are the best characters at EVERYTHING.

Well, theres DPS....wait
theres survivability............wait
theres ease of play........wait
theres how awesome they look...........wait

ok, maybe you have a point. That being said, I still love my vorcha

[JiceDuresh]

That's what I've been saying since the start, I hated infiltrators then and I still hate them now, I wouldn't miss a single one if they all were removed from the game tomorrow.

[Dalis918]

Annomander wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...

Why don't we just make this some sort of CoD thing...only difference in kits & classes should be the looks! No powers, no skilltrees, just the weapon and your triggerfinger.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, cloak is far too powerful a tool as it currently stands. Feneckus raised some brilliant points.

No matter what way you look at it, infiltrators (take your pick) are the best characters at EVERYTHING.

Ghost: better damage than most soldiers, and survival than a krogan sentinel.

GI: better melee damage than a krogan, better damage output than any soldier.

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Are you sure you're not crying just because you suck at sniping?

[aimimia]

It's definatly some valid points. There's really no down side to using cloak whatsoever. It's actually much more advantages to cloak then power/shoot in all circumstances. Also, not having to worry about cooldown using that tactic is also "broken" imo. I would put it on par to the Reegar+incendiary+warp bug.

[ISHYGDDT]

I'm not, personally, but the way TC is designed is what causes this sort of problem.

IMO any tactical cloak damage bonuses should have only applied to direct hit weapon damage (not powers or grenades, or even AOE weapons) and there should have been no cancelling of power cool downs using tactical cloak i.e. you shouldn't be able to use a power at all unless you took bonus power in rank 6.

[Bariudol]

The only thing i dislike about infiltrators is the TC cooldown overwriting other powers cd, and the bonus damage is too damn high, it should be weapon specific (i mean the 80% dmg). But i don't really feel sick about them since its a coop game, while the enemies are dead, I'm fine with it, mostly.

[BridgeBurner]

MyryaSzataria wrote...

Yay, yet another cry for people to get nerfed because they're good at what they do. Wanna see where this whole train of thought goes? Check out what happened to the professions in Star Wars Galaxies. One profession would get nerfed, then another, then another, until all of them were useless, some had been out-and-out removed from the game, and all because people were upset they weren't the best and most awesomest ever.

Yeah, why don't you play with Feneckus?

When he's outscored you using w/e kit he feels like, then you can talk about him.

Feneckus is pretty damn good at this game, and he knows a lot more about what he's talking about than you.

[shnig_1]

I agree, infiltrators are op, but Idk what they can do about it. Besides Buff everything else to god status also

[RoundedPlanet88]

Dalis918 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...

Why don't we just make this some sort of CoD thing...only difference in kits & classes should be the looks! No powers, no skilltrees, just the weapon and your triggerfinger.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, cloak is far too powerful a tool as it currently stands. Feneckus raised some brilliant points.

No matter what way you look at it, infiltrators (take your pick) are the best characters at EVERYTHING.

Ghost: better damage than most soldiers, and survival than a krogan sentinel.

GI: better melee damage than a krogan, better damage output than any soldier.

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Are you sure you're not crying just because you suck at sniping?

..................with a reegar................did you even read the post?

[Samihazah]

sandboxgod wrote...

This is the main crux of your post I think. This is what I disagree with. you write good posts. But I was just playing the game last night on my GI + Claymore thinking to myself what ME3 did with infiltrators is bloody brilliant. I love that I can carry lots of guns and as long as I quickly leave cloak I have a short cooldown

The cloak is called "Tactiacal" for a reason.

To be honest, I hate infiltrators. I can't snipe for feces, but i really love having one on my team, because that really improves the chance of survival when it comes to objectves and resurrecting people (in most cases).

As for the nerfs, I realle don't mind, I like the weapon efficiency rotation actually.
Since Retaliation, it'll make me master different gear without really trying to do so.

[billy the squid]

You hate infiltrators? Oh you'll hate me then, I like to play as the Ghost and when people go down I revive them partially stop half way through, then run away giggling while they bleed out as it's too late to use a med kit. Haha

[BridgeBurner]

Dalis918 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...

Why don't we just make this some sort of CoD thing...only difference in kits & classes should be the looks! No powers, no skilltrees, just the weapon and your triggerfinger.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, cloak is far too powerful a tool as it currently stands. Feneckus raised some brilliant points.

No matter what way you look at it, infiltrators (take your pick) are the best characters at EVERYTHING.

Ghost: better damage than most soldiers, and survival than a krogan sentinel.

GI: better melee damage than a krogan, better damage output than any soldier.

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Are you sure you're not crying just because you suck at sniping?

Yeah, and Feneckus sucks too, we're just big nooby-noobs.

[upinya slayin]

Lathrim wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

novaguard a tank? not anymoreso then other vangaurds. what about teh batguard? he's a tank. also the destroyer and the geth trooper are tanks.

also why do you need a tank? plent of squichy characters (drell adept for example) are awesome

Charge+Nova makes him far more "tanky" than the Asari, Drell, Slayer, et cetera. And Feneckus never said he needs a tank, just that the Havoc was one and that made him a good character. Now that he isn't as good in it or in damage output (which wasn't great to start with), he's really underpowered. That's all Feneckus's saying.

be that as it may, they fact he left out the ones i mentioned make me quesiton what he feels is a tank.
and charge and PD? or even better charge and lift grenades? can't get killed by dead enemies