611 réponses à ce sujet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

COLZ7R wrote...

No reading the op was not overrated, a constant whine, yes. As has been said in many posts in this thread amd countless others there are many ways to avoid infs if you dont like them. Wishing a entire class wasnt there that a lot of people like because you dont like it is arrogant to the extreme. You of course wont see it that way as your opinion(thats what it is, a OPINION) is all your interested in.just checking, the community have been pretty clear that a large majority see nothing wrong with infs, are they all wrong and you and small number of hangers on right?

Well guess what?  I would like to like the Turian Havoc, but he just took a hit so Infiltrators could have their fun.  People need to stop pretending that their favorite class has no impact on the game whatsoever.  Constantly whining and demanding that Infiltrators retain the ability to do everything well with now drawbacks is encroaching on how I want to play the game. 

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

COLZ7R wrote...

No reading the op was not overrated, a constant whine, yes. As has been said in many posts in this thread amd countless others there are many ways to avoid infs if you dont like them. Wishing a entire class wasnt there that a lot of people like because you dont like it is arrogant to the extreme. You of course wont see it that way as your opinion(thats what it is, a OPINION) is all your interested in.just checking, the community have been pretty clear that a large majority see nothing wrong with infs, are they all wrong and you and small number of hangers on right?

already reported OP

[COLZ7R]

Pathetic

[Feneckus]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Well guess what?  I would like to like the Turian Havoc, but he just took a hit so Infiltrators could have their fun.  People need to stop pretending that their favorite class has no impact on the game whatsoever.  Constantly whining and demanding that Infiltrators retain the ability to do everything well with now drawbacks is encroaching on how I want to play the game.  

Yeah, those guys don't realize they make no sense.

"I want to play infiltrators, don't you dare dictate how I play the game !"

Well, you just did ...

[SweetWilly013]

Let's just delete the infiltrator class so we can rid ourselves of this constant whine. Save ourselves some sanity.

[CNevarezN]

Bahahahah!! It's like a damn Novela up in here. Rotfl!

[capn233]

CNevarezN wrote...

Bahahahah!! It's like a damn Novela up in here. Rotfl!

Telenovela maybe.

[COLZ7R]

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

[capn233]

COLZ7R wrote...

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

They're a bunch of nerfing nerfers, and they hate freedom.

[CNevarezN]

COLZ7R wrote...

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

[Origin]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

(EDIT - formating)
Well, there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading / nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept this. 

I agree that there are exploits that need to be addressed because using them makes you over powered. By this I don't mean the use of the geth infiltrator with proximity mine and piranha or turian ghost with Harrier, particle rifle, etc. but for example the use of the missile glitch.

Properly combining the characters with weapons, gear and consumables makes you effective, not over powered. Stop confusing effectiveness with over power.

The ME3 MP is not targeted to a small group of good gamers. This is a coop game. The level of skill and game-play style is different for each player. And this diversity is good for the game.

Bottom line, it is not only about you. Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not affect you in any way. 

Modifié par Aekshin, 06 décembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

COLZ7R wrote...

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

Wait...what?  You must have me confused with someone else.  I have posted no such thing as a "stance" on the "minority dictating how the majority should play."

I'm not crying to nerf anything.  The OP stated that the game would have been better without Infs.  I don't see anything about a nerf.

Also, you fail to realize that a minority of Infiltrator players are very vocal in their demands that Infiltrators retain all of the best attributes, that they should be good at everything, etc.  So I'm making the argument that this is pretty ironic considering people are complaining about others trying to dictate how they play.  Because this minority of Infiltrator players is doing the exact same thing.

Aekshin wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

-
First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It
was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE.
It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has
been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in
the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage
output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known
as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and
his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so
godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed.
Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

-
They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every
3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow
as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier
with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the
backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about
trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec
into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those
guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the
Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd
control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

-
They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress'
cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could
also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels
(definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better
than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the
best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about
map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

(EDIT - formating)
Well,
there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use
infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem
anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading /
nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either
you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or
there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept
this. 

I agree that there are exploits that need to be addressed
because using them makes you over powered. By this I don't mean the use
of the geth infiltrator with proximity mine and piranha or turian
ghost with Harrier, particle rifle, etc. but for example the use of the
missile glitch.

Properly combining the characters with
weapons, gear and consumables makes you effective, not over powered.
Stop confusing effectiveness with over power.

The ME3 MP is not
targeted to a small group of good gamers. This is a coop game. The level
of skill and game-play style is different for each player. And this
diversity is good for the game.

Bottom line, it is not only about
you. Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If
they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not
affect you in any way. 

If it's not only about you, then why are you attempting to silence his opinion about Infiltrators?  If it's not only about you, isn't his opinion about the game at least equally valid?

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 06 décembre 2012 - 05:23 .

[DeathIsHere]

Feneckus wrote...

DeathIsHere wrote...

They damage very quickly and they're supposed to, the trade off, as others have mentioned, is the fact that they typically have low health/shields.

The GI has as much shields as the Geth Engineer.
The SI has as much shields as the Salarian Engineer.
The QMI has as much shields as the Quarian Engineer.
The Human Infiltrator has as much shields as the other non destroyer humans.

Those are really bad comparisons minus the human, which I can only guess was done for the sake of keeping them all somewhat on equal footing. Here's why they're bad:

For one thing, the Engineer class is supposed to be squishy as it is. Possibly even moreso than the Infiltrators. They're casters, they're not supposed to be out for extended periods of time and thus don't need as much shields and health. Second, for two of the three you mentioned, they have a power that the Infiltrator counterpart doesn't have that helps with survivability: Geth Turret for the Geth Engineer which restores its shields and can be specced to do damage at the same time, and Decoy for the Salarian Engineer, which does what the name suggests. Enemies shoot at the decoy instead of the Engineer and it can be specced to explode when it's destroyed.

Those things, combined with the fact that Engineers are supposed to be squishy, make that argument null. I could understand an argument for the Turian Ghost being too survivable considering he has the same amount of health and shields as the other Turians (I disagree with that but again, can only guess it's for consistency), he also has stim packs which was just a bad idea for an infiltrator. The problem isn't infiltrators, it's Bioware. The way they've set up the powers on some of these kits is what's causing this so stop blaming an entire class because Bioware keeps goofing.

Splitting powers up so they can be changed independently of other classes would be ideal, but it could have been avoided by being sensible with the power assignment in the first place. Why does the Ghost have stim packs in the first place? Why does the Geth engineer/trooper have Hunter Mode(a power meant for...hunters...infiltrators..)? It doesn't make sense. These aren't the fault of the infiltrators and I don't see how you could get that assumption. Bioware made all of this, there were ways to avoid this and they didn't take them. That's all there is to it.

[COLZ7R]

Really try reading the **** you are writing mate, where is any of your so called minority of inf players making long winded threads about nerffing other classes as a whole? I dont like using biotics or vanguards, so should i start threads about getting rid of them?
God the arrogance of some people on here is mind blowing.
So nerf threads about x power a inf has started by **** knows who ends up in said power getting nerffed, and effects other classes that have the same power is the fault of someone playing a inf!!!

[COLZ7R]

Oh and it was the op i was replying to saying he makes no sense as he made a broad ranging statment about people not agreeing with him making no sense

[OuterRim]

Infiltrators are designed to act on their own for the most part, using stealth and sneak attacks (thus more damaging attacks). Engineers are much more of a support class for the team, hense their assortment of helpful Drones, Turrets, decoys, shield boosters, and debuffing mechanisms.

Bioware keeps nerfing the secondary common powers and hurting the infiltrator's cousins because they simply have no clue how to balance the infiltrators. What they haven't grasped is that they don't need to be balanced. They only try to balance them because infiltrators are fun to play and thus popular and because of whiny nerf lover threads like this one.

Perhaps if Tactical cloak actually worked and hid you from enemies, a reduction of the damage bonus from cloak would be acceptable, but as it is now, it simply cannot be. The game is too broken to make this acceptable. An infiltrator without some kind of decent cloak damage bonus is simply a weaker soldier.

[tfoltz]

DeathIsHere wrote...
...
For one thing, the Engineer class is supposed to be squishy as it is. Possibly even moreso than the Infiltrators. They're casters, they're not supposed to be out for extended periods of time and thus don't need as much shields and health. ...

Casters should have more life since enemies can negate powers.

[Feneckus]

Aekshin wrote...

Well, there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading / nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept this.

This thread is not about nerfing or making the game more challenging. A Drell Vanguard can be just as devastating as a GI. That's not the point.

DeathIsHere wrote...

Second, for two of the three you mentioned, they have a power that the Infiltrator counterpart doesn't have that helps with survivability

For the SI, Tactical Cloak + Energy Drain is a much better tool for your survival than Energy Drain + Decoy, I don't know how you can argue that.

And while the Geth Turret is nice, since shield/health gate have a cooldown, it's a bit underwhelming. Being able to stagger everything in a 4.5m radius every 3s, no matter your cooldown bonus, is a much better tool. Not to mention that a GI kills stuff so fast his survivability is less tested than a GE's.

[Stardusk]

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

Well, there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading / nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept this.

This thread is not about nerfing or making the game more challenging. A Drell Vanguard can be just as devastating as a GI. That's not the point.

DeathIsHere wrote...

Second, for two of the three you mentioned, they have a power that the Infiltrator counterpart doesn't have that helps with survivability

For the SI, Tactical Cloak + Energy Drain is a much better tool for your survival than Energy Drain + Decoy, I don't know how you can argue that.

And while the Geth Turret is nice, since shield/health gate have a cooldown, it's a bit underwhelming. Being able to stagger everything in a 4.5m radius every 3s, no matter your cooldown bonus, is a much better tool. Not to mention that a GI kills stuff so fast his survivability is less tested than a GE's.

Drell Vanguard=OP

[MercylessKillah]

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game if people learned to shut the hell up and stop crying nerf when they don't like something.

Fixed

[RohanSpartan]

Cut all health and shields of all Infiltrators by half then they will truly be balanced. They are supposed to be the fastest and stealthiest but have the least amount of survivability health/shield wise.

[unclemonster]

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

http://social.biowar.../index/15185728
Hmm... must not be that sick of them!!

Modifié par unclemonster, 06 décembre 2012 - 09:06 .

[Operator m1]

[quote]CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

[quote]COLZ7R wrote...

No reading the op was not overrated, a constant whine, yes. As has been said in many posts in this thread amd countless others there are many ways to avoid infs if you dont like them. Wishing a entire class wasnt there that a lot of people like because you dont like it is arrogant to the extreme. You of course wont see it that way as your opinion(thats what it is, a OPINION) is all your interested in.just checking, the community have been pretty clear that a large majority see nothing wrong with infs, are they all wrong and you and small number of hangers on right?[/quote]

Well guess what?  I would like to like the Turian Havoc, but he just took a hit so Infiltrators could have their fun.  People need to stop pretending that their favorite class has no impact on the game whatsoever.  Constantly whining and demanding that Infiltrators retain the ability to do everything well with now drawbacks is encroaching on how I want to play the game. 

[/quote]

The havoc took a hit because people complained about the TGI despite being warned for weeks about what would happen. Bioware does pay attention to whiners, and the community has to hold part of the blame for what happened to the geth engineer, and turian havock. Stop complaining about infiltrators, and we won't have kits getting negatively affected.

[quote]MaxBoss wrote...

I agree infiltrators should be adjusted although I'm not sick of them. I like the Shadow and Huntress, the others not so much.

I hope the Huntress won't get the 40% weapon bonus as that would make it truly broken.

The problem with overpowered classes is that, while initially entertaining, they make the game boring in the long run as people start using only those classes.[/quote]

Hasn't happened since release. Point invalid.

and once more for emphasis:

[quote]Operator m1 wrote...

TC shouldn't be discussed right now because this community will likely never come up with TC changes that won't disproportionately hurt different infiltrators considering all of them share the same cloak coding except the TGI, and huntress, while each one has different potential playstyles as we see in the QFI melee build, QMI grenadier, SI sniper, GI+anything, the N7 shadow melee ninja, etc...[/quote][/quote]

Modifié par Operator m1, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:54 .

[GreatBlueHeron]

Winngard wrote...

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

Yes, I'm sick of playing with infiltrators. Almost every single freaking match there's one in there, and they are on a personal mission to top the scoreboard. It makes game play EXTREMELY BORING. I'm one of those rare folks that when I play an infiltrator, I play like an actual infiltrator. Strategy and all. Calculated moves. Nearly every other infiltrator I've seen is bringing extremely heavy weapons and taking advantage of the cloak cancel cooldown workaround. You know, I would like some things to shoot at.

I´m playing almost solely GI with BW, so...

-Extremely heavy weapons.... like Widow or Black Widow or Javelin? Who in his right mind would do that? I thought GI is a Sniper character. Guess I was wrong. 

-If infi is not topping the score board, that player is playing it wrong, cause that´s its purpose - being best DPS char. 

-Well sorry, that we are easing the game for you and other players (reviving, sniping bosses and generally covering your flanks and behinds). Next time I personaly let everybody blead to death and mind my own bussiness.

-If you want a challenge, try plat solo with lv one common weap - if you find one. (I know this is cheap, but complaining about that players are contributing to the objectives and easing the game.... lol)

 -"I'm sick of playing with players, who are using biotics and combos and therefore are shuttering with the screen and therefore ruining my aim and preventing me to cover/save their behinds.":crying: sarcasm (Not really, this is part of the game and being a good sniper ) 

Guess we all have something to endure.


To Feneckus and his OP - NO. Plain and simply. I don´t know, why you want to destroy whole class(or remove it completely), just because you hate it, THINK it is ruining the game and/or think it is OP. It is not I win class and not everybody is using it. From that number not many are using it right, or to its full potencial. Which leave us with few individuals, who are VERY good with them, but  would excel with EVERY char. regardless. Skill matters

Restrict infiltrators to SRs only (or AR for TGI), or penalize using other weapons, if you must, and leave them be.

Of course you don't want your instant dominate all the things class to be balanced.  Infis are broken due to TC.  And it's been quite a while since I've seen an infi make an effort to do objectives.  I revive infis even when they go off and rambo because this is a co op game.  I don't prefer to solo, thanks, so stop breaking cloak early so you can get in even more insane damage.  Some of us would like to play.  How about you go solo so you can kill all the things. 

[Xaijin]

OuterRim wrote...

Infiltrators are designed to act on their own for the most part, using stealth and sneak attacks (thus more damaging attacks). Engineers are much more of a support class for the team, hense their assortment of helpful Drones, Turrets, decoys, shield boosters, and debuffing mechanisms.

Bioware keeps nerfing the secondary common powers and hurting the infiltrator's cousins because they simply have no clue how to balance the infiltrators. What they haven't grasped is that they don't need to be balanced. They only try to balance them because infiltrators are fun to play and thus popular and because of whiny nerf lover threads like this one.

Perhaps if Tactical cloak actually worked and hid you from enemies, a reduction of the damage bonus from cloak would be acceptable, but as it is now, it simply cannot be. The game is too broken to make this acceptable. An infiltrator without some kind of decent cloak damage bonus is simply a weaker soldier.

"So only if tactical Cloak allowed me to literally cakewalk the game by having enemies completely unable to detect me in any form would there be room for damage discussion."

Wow.

That's an interesting take, especially in a  co-op game.

Modifié par Xaijin, 06 décembre 2012 - 11:33 .