611 réponses à ce sujet

[Necrotya]

spudspot wrote...

Necrotya wrote...

@OP thx to ppl like you kits/weapons get nerfed ... that way of thinking brought us nerfs, ppl switched to other s.it, those got nerfed, balance was worse than before blablabla

If you don't like certain kits, don't play them, if you don't like ppl playing certain kits, go with friends and play 4x volus adept lev1/no weapons/ platinum/london/collectors just for funs....

+ good players (no, Im not 1 of them) can make any kit (and most weapons) look OP....

Have you even read one single word of the starting post? 

Actualy I did...whining about a class being OP and nerfed - so other previously "ok" classes are even worse now....same with weapons and blablabla. So yeah, lets hate class in CO-OP MP, really? Whining about kits/weapons brough nerfs to infiltratos in the first place, calling to bring "balance" for infiltrators will only create new problems...it's never ending cylce.
So yes I stand by what I wrote earlier - stop hating ( calling for balance ) on class in co-op game, just play what you like....

[Origin]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

COLZ7R wrote...

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

Wait...what?  You must have me confused with someone else.  I have posted no such thing as a "stance" on the "minority dictating how the majority should play."

I'm not crying to nerf anything.  The OP stated that the game would have been better without Infs.  I don't see anything about a nerf.

Also, you fail to realize that a minority of Infiltrator players are very vocal in their demands that Infiltrators retain all of the best attributes, that they should be good at everything, etc.  So I'm making the argument that this is pretty ironic considering people are complaining about others trying to dictate how they play.  Because this minority of Infiltrator players is doing the exact same thing.

Aekshin wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

-
First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It
was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE.
It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has
been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in
the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage
output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known
as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and
his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so
godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed.
Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

-
They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every
3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow
as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier
with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the
backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about
trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec
into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those
guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the
Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd
control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

-
They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress'
cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could
also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels
(definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better
than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the
best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about
map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

(EDIT - formating)
Well,
there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use
infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem
anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading /
nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either
you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or
there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept
this. 

I agree that there are exploits that need to be addressed
because using them makes you over powered. By this I don't mean the use
of the geth infiltrator with proximity mine and piranha or turian
ghost with Harrier, particle rifle, etc. but for example the use of the
missile glitch.

Properly combining the characters with
weapons, gear and consumables makes you effective, not over powered.
Stop confusing effectiveness with over power.

The ME3 MP is not
targeted to a small group of good gamers. This is a coop game. The level
of skill and game-play style is different for each player. And this
diversity is good for the game.

Bottom line, it is not only about
you. Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If
they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not
affect you in any way. 

If it's not only about you, then why are you attempting to silence his opinion about Infiltrators?  If it's not only about you, isn't his opinion about the game at least equally valid?

Opinion is one thing, requesting downgrade / nerfing that is affecting all the rest of the players, it something quite different. And please read carefully my post:
"there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem anymore."
"Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not affect you in any way"

Enjoy you game and let me do the same. :innocent:

[joker_jack]

Aekshin wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

COLZ7R wrote...

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

Wait...what?  You must have me confused with someone else.  I have posted no such thing as a "stance" on the "minority dictating how the majority should play."

I'm not crying to nerf anything.  The OP stated that the game would have been better without Infs.  I don't see anything about a nerf.

Also, you fail to realize that a minority of Infiltrator players are very vocal in their demands that Infiltrators retain all of the best attributes, that they should be good at everything, etc.  So I'm making the argument that this is pretty ironic considering people are complaining about others trying to dictate how they play.  Because this minority of Infiltrator players is doing the exact same thing.

Aekshin wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

-
First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It
was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE.
It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has
been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in
the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage
output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known
as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and
his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so
godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed.
Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

-
They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every
3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow
as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier
with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the
backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about
trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec
into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those
guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the
Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd
control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

-
They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress'
cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could
also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels
(definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better
than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the
best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about
map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

(EDIT - formating)
Well,
there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use
infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem
anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading /
nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either
you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or
there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept
this. 

I agree that there are exploits that need to be addressed
because using them makes you over powered. By this I don't mean the use
of the geth infiltrator with proximity mine and piranha or turian
ghost with Harrier, particle rifle, etc. but for example the use of the
missile glitch.

Properly combining the characters with
weapons, gear and consumables makes you effective, not over powered.
Stop confusing effectiveness with over power.

The ME3 MP is not
targeted to a small group of good gamers. This is a coop game. The level
of skill and game-play style is different for each player. And this
diversity is good for the game.

Bottom line, it is not only about
you. Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If
they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not
affect you in any way. 

If it's not only about you, then why are you attempting to silence his opinion about Infiltrators?  If it's not only about you, isn't his opinion about the game at least equally valid?

Opinion is one thing, requesting downgrade / nerfing that is affecting all the rest of the players, it something quite different. And please read carefully my post:
"there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem anymore."
"Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not affect you in any way"

Enjoy you game and let me do the same. :innocent:

Holyer than thou players say otherwise. Though Bioware won't mess the class with if they want to continue getting what money they can even though we are in an era of deminishing returns. 

What ever brought out the ****** bags from hiding, it did it in spade. Power trip plain and simple for these a******s and nothing more. Especially when no matter how wrong they are, they will nt adimit it and continue to say everyone else is wrong.

[greghorvath]

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

[Major Durza]

My thoughts on the matter:
Why is Tactical Cloak universal across all infiltrators?

With Retaliation, we are seeing differences.  Huntresses Cloak does not apply to weapons (This avoids making a broken character, everybody admits to it yet doesn't).  Why can this not happen to all infiltrators?
Jack up the Shadow's melee damage bonuses slightly, perhaps a rank 6 evo change for melee instead of sniper rifles and make her cloak not apply to weapons?
For the Geth Infiltrator, make his Tac Cloak damage bonuses apply only to Geth Weapons.
Salarian, Snipers only, or maybe powers since he has ED and Proxy Mine.
TGI, Assault Rifles only.
Shadow, melee.
Seeing the trend?  Perhaps the weakest of the Infiltrators in terms of synergy should retain their full tac cloak (Vanilla Humans) as a reason to take them over the more favored Infiltrators, such as the GI, SI, or TGI.
Make them actually different instead of being in any way objectively being better.

And yes, they should have different versions of the power than their other counterparts.  GI Hunter Mode should focuse more in terms of evos on wallhax and awareness, and the GE's versions should have more power, and the GS should have something in-between the two.  TGI should have nerfed stimpacks while the Havoc keeps the same stimpacks, so there is a real reason to pick him over the TGI
As for Soldiers being penalized more for weight, I could not agree more.  My solution would not be to get rid of the Tac Cloak recharge cancel, but instead to buff the Soldier's carrying capacities silly.  They should be able to spam proxy mine more frequently than infiltrators, even if the Infiltrators mines can hit harder.

A solution can be reached, but it is somewhat complex.
The solution is not to just simply nerf the infiltrators, but make them unique from one another as we are seeing in Retaliation.

Yes, I fully believe that the Huntress's cloak is not broken, but intentional.  If it was "fixed", she would be rediculously overpowered do you all not agree?  It would be almost exploitive, and the damage bonus preven'ts that doesn't it?
Unique infiltrators is what we need here.

Modifié par Major Durza, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:08 .

[Rotacioskapa]

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator).

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months.

[Bolo Xia]

infiltrator class must do all the balances.... guess it has nothing to do with who decides what is to be changed.

oh and btw, they never balance based upon forum threads... nvm how the majority of nerf/buff came after and sometimes within a few days of forum whine.

but in the end i suppose you are right, that dirty infiltrator class and the people who play them are evidently at fault.

[darkpassenger2342]

anyone else sick of a 25 page thread about being sick of infiltrators?

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:30 .

[megabeast37215]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

anyone else sick of a 25 page thread about being sick of infiltrators?

it has served it's purpose... it also brought out more support than I thought it would.

time to let it die... Tac Cloak won't be changed until ME4, can't risk alienating the remaining/new playerbase.

[greghorvath]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator).

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months.

My only question: so?

What you are saying is that the source of the discontent is a hurt sense of justice?

The previous TC nerf achieved the professed goal of reducing the class' usage. There are considerably less infiltrators being played (at least in the lobbies I am put into).

I find it very disturbing that every time there is a nerf there is all sort of manure dumped on the BSN (and TC) and when there is a buff everyone is quiet. "balancing" should just stop and the kiddies should find some new toy.

Modifié par greghorvath, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:52 .

[blacklanner]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power. How dare they! Infis are the only class which benefits from something like that! hmm, I though H soldier gets free reload with AR etc.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons. As a sniper I immediately demand reducing the weight of all SRs.  High velicity rifles should have negative weight - everyone knows that! That weight is seriously hurting my back! Also using TC for 0,5 should result in 8 second recharge, maybe more!

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator). Yep, Turian havoc is unplayable know, you´ll be kicked out of the game when trying using it! Everyone knows only infi have all powers/techs, that are also in other classes, therefore only infi benefits from all of them.

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly. Yep I´m part of dev team. Trust me, I know, what I´m saying, I saw the numbers.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months. Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?

added some bold


True. And because of these huge advantages EVERYONE is using infi ALL THE TIME. Other classes have too some (minor/tiny/little) advantages of their own (its called power/techs), but nobody plays them, cause they are nothing compared to infi. 

Apparently every char and every class needs to be same!!! Please go on...

 Sorry to dissapoint you. But infi are NOT I win char. Good players will always be good with any char.

PS: thank you, that felt good, venting it out of my system.

Next 

[Rotacioskapa]

greghorvath wrote...

Rotacioskapa wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator).

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months.

My only question: so?

What you are saying is that the source of the discontent is a hurt sense of justice?

The previous TC nerf achieved the professed goal of reducing the class' usage. There are considerably less infiltrators being played (at least in the lobbies I am put into).

I find it very disturbing that every time there is a nerf there is all sort of manure dumped on the BSN (and TC) and when there is a buff everyone is quiet. "balancing" should just stop and the kiddies should find some new toy.

Those inf nerfes fixed nothing. Lobbies are still filled with infs, especially gold and platinum. There was a sniper rifles damage nerf for TC... it's useless, it just made shotgun infs more popular.  There was a cloak duration nerf... useless because everybody spec TC for damage anyway.

TC needs to be redesigned/fixed or give other powers (Adrenaine rush, Marksman, etc) and classes bigger bonuses, advantages.

[Upfunkt]

Major Durza wrote...

My thoughts on the matter:
Why is Tactical Cloak universal across all infiltrators?

With Retaliation, we are seeing differences.  Huntresses Cloak does not apply to weapons (This avoids making a broken character, everybody admits to it yet doesn't).  Why can this not happen to all infiltrators?
Jack up the Shadow's melee damage bonuses slightly, perhaps a rank 6 evo change for melee instead of sniper rifles and make her cloak not apply to weapons?
For the Geth Infiltrator, make his Tac Cloak damage bonuses apply only to Geth Weapons.
Salarian, Snipers only, or maybe powers since he has ED and Proxy Mine.
TGI, Assault Rifles only.
Shadow, melee.
Seeing the trend?  Perhaps the weakest of the Infiltrators in terms of synergy should retain their full tac cloak (Vanilla Humans) as a reason to take them over the more favored Infiltrators, such as the GI, SI, or TGI.
Make them actually different instead of being in any way objectively being better.

And yes, they should have different versions of the power than their other counterparts.  GI Hunter Mode should focuse more in terms of evos on wallhax and awareness, and the GE's versions should have more power, and the GS should have something in-between the two.  TGI should have nerfed stimpacks while the Havoc keeps the same stimpacks, so there is a real reason to pick him over the TGI
As for Soldiers being penalized more for weight, I could not agree more.  My solution would not be to get rid of the Tac Cloak recharge cancel, but instead to buff the Soldier's carrying capacities silly.  They should be able to spam proxy mine more frequently than infiltrators, even if the Infiltrators mines can hit harder.

A solution can be reached, but it is somewhat complex.
The solution is not to just simply nerf the infiltrators, but make them unique from one another as we are seeing in Retaliation.

Yes, I fully believe that the Huntress's cloak is not broken, but intentional.  If it was "fixed", she would be rediculously overpowered do you all not agree?  It would be almost exploitive, and the damage bonus preven'ts that doesn't it?
Unique infiltrators is what we need here.

These are all very good ideas. Honestly, who plays the Shadow as a sniper when you have six other kits that can do the exact same thing? The GI's damage bonus to geth weapons works for me. I only ever use geth weapons for him.

[Rotacioskapa]

Winngard wrote...

Rotacioskapa wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power. How dare they! Infis are the only class which benefits from something like that! hmm, I though H soldier gets free reload with AR etc.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons. As a sniper I immediately demand reducing the weight of all SRs.  High velicity rifles should have negative weight - everyone knows that! That weight is seriously hurting my back! Also using TC for 0,5 should result in 8 second recharge, maybe more!

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator). Yep, Turian havoc is unplayable know, you´ll be kicked out of the game when trying using it! Everyone knows only infi have all powers/techs, that are also in other classes, therefore only infi benefits from all of them.

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly. Yep I´m part of dev team. Trust me, I know, what I´m saying, I saw the numbers.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months. Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?

added some bold


True. And because of these huge advantages EVERYONE is using infi ALL THE TIME. Other classes have too some (minor/tiny/little) advantages of their own (its called power/techs), but nobody plays them, cause they are nothing compared to infi. 

Apparently every char and every class needs to be same!!! Please go on...

 Sorry to dissapoint you. But infi are NOT I win char. Good players will always be good with any char.

PS: thank you, that felt good, venting it out of my system.

Next 

- I would choose power usage over the instant reload for AR anytime.
- read it again and interpret
- "Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?" They already stated infs are their favourite class. No wonder why...

Next.

Modifié par Rotacioskapa, 07 décembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[blacklanner]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

- I would choose power usage over the instant reload for AR anytime.  
- read it again and interpret
- "Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?" They already stated infs are their favourite class. No wonder why...

Next.

 - I would choose power usage over the instant reload for AR anytime - I won´t. And that makes me... what? Maybe its curable...
 - read it again and interpret.  - Done that, also read between lines and tried 3D. Its still there, though.
 They already stated infs are their favourite class. No wonder why...
 - Really? They are mine too! That warmed my heart!

Peace <3

 

[CIWS01]

Wow this thing is still steaming along isn't it? Sorry still love me some Infil's.

megabeast37215 wrote...

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

anyone else sick of a 25 page thread about being sick of infiltrators?

it has served it's purpose... it also brought out more support than I thought it would.

time to let it die... Tac Cloak won't be changed until ME4, can't risk alienating the remaining/new playerbase.

*takes a seat and offers megabeast37215 some popcorn* 
"did you want butter or no? they were out of salt."

[greghorvath]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

Winngard wrote...

Rotacioskapa wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power. How dare they! Infis are the only class which benefits from something like that! hmm, I though H soldier gets free reload with AR etc.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons. As a sniper I immediately demand reducing the weight of all SRs.  High velicity rifles should have negative weight - everyone knows that! That weight is seriously hurting my back! Also using TC for 0,5 should result in 8 second recharge, maybe more!

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator). Yep, Turian havoc is unplayable know, you´ll be kicked out of the game when trying using it! Everyone knows only infi have all powers/techs, that are also in other classes, therefore only infi benefits from all of them.

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly. Yep I´m part of dev team. Trust me, I know, what I´m saying, I saw the numbers.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months. Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?

added some bold


True. And because of these huge advantages EVERYONE is using infi ALL THE TIME. Other classes have too some (minor/tiny/little) advantages of their own (its called power/techs), but nobody plays them, cause they are nothing compared to infi. 

Apparently every char and every class needs to be same!!! Please go on...

 Sorry to dissapoint you. But infi are NOT I win char. Good players will always be good with any char.

PS: thank you, that felt good, venting it out of my system.

Next 

- I would choose power usage over the instant reload for AR anytime.
- read it again and interpret
- "Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?" They already stated infs are their favourite class. No wonder why...

Next.

TC nerf did significantly reduce the numbers of infiltrators in lobbies. There are just those people who like them. And please do not introduce the "infiltrator requires no skill" idiocy into this latest discussion. They require "skill" as much as anything else. If you want to play well, that is.

[Rotacioskapa]

greghorvath wrote...

Rotacioskapa wrote...

Winngard wrote...

Rotacioskapa wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I still don't understand where Feneckus' problem actually comes from...

- Infiltrators while using the TC can fire a power FOR FREE and still GET THE damage bonus without the evo 6 bonus power. How dare they! Infis are the only class which benefits from something like that! hmm, I though H soldier gets free reload with AR etc.

- and if they use power and fire while the TC is active then the cooldown is always low even if they carry the heaviest weapons. As a sniper I immediately demand reducing the weight of all SRs.  High velicity rifles should have negative weight - everyone knows that! That weight is seriously hurting my back! Also using TC for 0,5 should result in 8 second recharge, maybe more!

- If an infiltrator's power gets a nerf then it affects the other classes too. For example Stim pack got a nerf because of the Turian Ghost but it also affects the Turian Havoc. The Turian Havoc became weaker because of the Turian Ghost (infiltrator). Yep, Turian havoc is unplayable know, you´ll be kicked out of the game when trying using it! Everyone knows only infi have all powers/techs, that are also in other classes, therefore only infi benefits from all of them.

- most of the weapons get a nerf because of the infiltrators. BW only see the statistics but don't check which classes are using the weapons. Infiltrator make those weapons godly because of their high damage bonus. And other classes suffer because of this because BW doesn't check it thoroughly. Yep I´m part of dev team. Trust me, I know, what I´m saying, I saw the numbers.

These are the biggest problems. The free power usage is a huge advantage up against the Human Soldier or the Turian Soldier for example. They can't use a power while Adrenaline Rush or Marksman are active.

But BW obviously doesn't give a big f*ck about it because nothing changed after 9 months. Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?

added some bold


True. And because of these huge advantages EVERYONE is using infi ALL THE TIME. Other classes have too some (minor/tiny/little) advantages of their own (its called power/techs), but nobody plays them, cause they are nothing compared to infi. 

Apparently every char and every class needs to be same!!! Please go on...

 Sorry to dissapoint you. But infi are NOT I win char. Good players will always be good with any char.

PS: thank you, that felt good, venting it out of my system.

Next 

- I would choose power usage over the instant reload for AR anytime.
- read it again and interpret
- "Perhaps because it is not broken as you might think?" They already stated infs are their favourite class. No wonder why...

Next.

TC nerf did significantly reduce the numbers of infiltrators in lobbies. There are just those people who like them. And please do not introduce the "infiltrator requires no skill" idiocy into this latest discussion. They require "skill" as much as anything else. If you want to play well, that is.

- You always find infs in gold and platinum lobbies and mostly shotgun infs.
- "And please do not introduce the "infiltrator requires no skill" idiocy "  I didn't.
- But inf with reegar or piranha is pretty easy mode for anybody.

[greghorvath]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

- You always find infs in gold and platinum lobbies and mostly shotgun infs.
- "And please do not introduce the "infiltrator requires no skill" idiocy "  I didn't.
- But inf with reegar or piranha is pretty easy mode for anybody.

- I can't remember the last time I saw a shotty infiltrator. Neither in pugs nor with friends. In fact, I have seen few infiltrators in game lately and I still play much more than a normal person should.
- Sorry, if I misunderstood you
- So? Fury with cyclonic, power amplification, stronghold gear is an indestructible nuke machine. Krogans can walk through most anything.

And the issue still seems to be that some people think that there is something wrong if people enjoy something they don't and that their "skill" (rofl in connection to a game) is somehow lessened by the fact that some things are easier than others.

Am I saying its easier to score well with GI than vith a volus adept? Of course I am.
Am I saying there is nothing wrong if people prefer the GI to a volus adept? Of course I am.
Is it wrong if they do so? Of course not
Should the volus adept be as potent the GI? Nope. Not because of lore and not because of diversity.
Should people that play the volus adept have the right to judge other people for having fun with the GI? Decide this one for yourself.
 

Modifié par greghorvath, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[greghorvath]

- So? Fury with cyclonic, power amplification, stronghold gear is an indestructible nuke machine. Krogans can walk through most anything.

Just one more thing in connection to the above. The fallacy that you are a noob unless you can solo platinum with a
naked drell adept you are a noob is just laughable. We play for fun, so anyone having fun has the necessary amount of "skill" required.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Aekshin wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

COLZ7R wrote...

Bit like yourself making no sense. The crying to nerf something then when it is it effects something else its all the infs fault. Aint been thought out to well was it? Still no reply as to your stance on the minority dictating how the majority should play?

Wait...what?  You must have me confused with someone else.  I have posted no such thing as a "stance" on the "minority dictating how the majority should play."

I'm not crying to nerf anything.  The OP stated that the game would have been better without Infs.  I don't see anything about a nerf.

Also, you fail to realize that a minority of Infiltrator players are very vocal in their demands that Infiltrators retain all of the best attributes, that they should be good at everything, etc.  So I'm making the argument that this is pretty ironic considering people are complaining about others trying to dictate how they play.  Because this minority of Infiltrator players is doing the exact same thing.

Aekshin wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

-
First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It
was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE.
It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has
been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in
the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage
output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known
as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and
his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so
godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed.
Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

-
They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every
3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow
as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier
with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the
backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about
trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec
into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those
guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the
Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd
control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

-
They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress'
cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could
also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels
(definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better
than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the
best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about
map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

(EDIT - formating)
Well,
there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use
infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem
anymore.

It is wrong to ask again and again for downgrading /
nerfing effective characters / gear / powers, etc. just because either
you are too good and you need the game to be more challenging for you or
there are other players that are outscoring you and you cannot accept
this. 

I agree that there are exploits that need to be addressed
because using them makes you over powered. By this I don't mean the use
of the geth infiltrator with proximity mine and piranha or turian
ghost with Harrier, particle rifle, etc. but for example the use of the
missile glitch.

Properly combining the characters with
weapons, gear and consumables makes you effective, not over powered.
Stop confusing effectiveness with over power.

The ME3 MP is not
targeted to a small group of good gamers. This is a coop game. The level
of skill and game-play style is different for each player. And this
diversity is good for the game.

Bottom line, it is not only about
you. Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If
they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not
affect you in any way. 

If it's not only about you, then why are you attempting to silence his opinion about Infiltrators?  If it's not only about you, isn't his opinion about the game at least equally valid?

Opinion is one thing, requesting downgrade / nerfing that is affecting all the rest of the players, it something quite different. And please read carefully my post:
"there is a simple solution for all these so called problems. Don't use infiltrators and ask your team members to do the same. Puff, no problem anymore."
"Play, have fun and let other peoples to enjoy the game as well. If they like playing with effective classes & weapons, this should not affect you in any way"

Enjoy you game and let me do the same. :innocent:

I could just as easily argue that people insisting that the Infiltators stay where they are is negatively impacting my gameplay experience.  When they buff enemies and balance weapons, the most powerful Infiltrators are going to skew the results.  The weaker characters are then made relatively weaker as a result.  I like to play all characters, so I could very well accuse you of ruining my gaming.  So who is right and who is wrong?

[FeralJester616]

Thread TL:DR

Infils are fine as they are, already they've been nerfed hard once. Leave the poor buggers alone.

Quit blaming the class for your failures as players.
Can't out score them? L2P

There isn't a class out there that can't be beaten.
Its all about placement and how quick you can kill spawns...

But all thats besides the point. Infil spike damage with TC is great indeed, but their DPS isn't that hot. Plus all but one is a freaking glass cannon and he doesn't do Spike damage best. He does DPS.

So get over yourselves.
Learn to play as part of a team and stop trying to get your e-peens stroked...



Edit: Formating & Spelling

Modifié par FeralJester616, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:51 .

[COLZ7R]

You are in the minority, afraid you will have to suck it up stop ****ing or bugger off and start whine threads, in your next game of choice, cycle will start again cause people dont play how you deem fit. So arrogant its scary.

[Devoidparanoia]

Disregarding the sh?tstorm, the havoc smg GE are fine, and my top best classless, I've solid gold with both, and geth engi doesn't need anything but his turret flamer+overload to be my best platinum character, I don't even use hunter mode, 'tis a matter of playing other classess differently to counterbalance infiltrators high dps and ability to move "semi" undetected, soldiers and engineers still destroy

[unclemonster]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I'm sick of Infiltrators.

- First, the Geth Engineer got nerfed because of the GI's godliness. It was quite a small nerf, but it was definitely more noticeable on the GE. It didn't make any difference on the GI.

- Now, the Havoc has been nerfed because of the Ghost. He was one of the only true tanks in the game (Kroguard and Novaguard being the other ones). His damage output wasn't that great though. But because of the monstruosity known as the Ghost Infiltrator, he can still tank but not as effectively and his damage output is even lower.

Because Infiltrators are so godly, what was probably the worst soldier in the game got nerfed. Ridiculous. The pitiful buffs to Havoc Strike are completely irrelevant.

- Several weapons were nerfed specifically because of how broken they were on infiltrators (Krysae, Piranha, maybe some others)

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

Same thing with proxy mines on the GI/SI. Those guys will get dozens of kills in a single match with them, while the Turian Soldier/Volus Engineer use them mainly for debuffing/crowd control, while having a longer cooldown. How is that balanced ?

- They're the best soldiers, the best engineers and if the Huntress' cloak weren't broken, they'd have the best biotic as well. You could also argue they actually have more survivibility than Sentinels (definitely true for the GI/SI). A melee GI is a thousand times better than a melee Krogan (seriously, WTF ?). They're the best medics and the best for device/kill objectives. They also don't really care about map/enemy, they'll dominate anyone/anywhere.

ME3 would have been a much better game without Infiltrators. 

Feneckus, I know we're bros, and we meet in-game very often....

But I think i love you.

I too, am SICK of infiltrators.

Wouldn't things become remarkably more easy to balance if infiltrators or tactical cloak didn't exist?

Why not, change tactical cloak so cooldowns actually matter. make infiltrators pay a price for being cloaked.

I agree with you completely, Infiltrators have f*cked this game, time and time again.

When a GI is a better melee combatant than a krogan.... there is a problem.

When an infiltrator has a better damage output than a soldier, there is a problem.

When an infiltrator, has better survivability, than a tanking class, you have a problem.

However, bioware LOVE infiltrators, hence why nothing will be done about them.

Rework tactical cloak, or remove it completely. I'd lvoe to see the day, its not going to happen though.

LOL!!!

Modifié par unclemonster, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:46 .