611 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedro Costa]

I agree that infiltrators are horribly balanced and hurt other kits too often because of that.
However, I think the sole problem lies in how TC works: as long as you break cloak voluntarily, you'll get a 3sec cooldown even while carrying a claymore. That is just BS no matter how you look at it.

[Feneckus]

[quote]upinya slayin wrote...

novaguard a tank? not anymoreso then other vangaurds. [/quote]

Who in this game can survive two/three Cerberus Turrets shooting at them ? That's the true definition of "tank". Novaguard, Havoc Soldier, Kroguard and  I guess I forgot the Batguard.

[quote]
also why do you need a tank? plent of squichy characters (drell adept for example) are awesome

[/quote

Drells have unmatched ass-kicking potential (at least for non-infiltrators). The Havoc Soldier has basically nothing besides being able to tank.

[Dalis918]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

I'm not, personally, but the way TC is designed is what causes this sort of problem.

IMO any tactical cloak damage bonuses should have only applied to direct hit weapon damage (not powers or grenades, or even AOE weapons) and there should have been no cancelling of power cool downs using tactical cloak i.e. you shouldn't be able to use a power at all unless you took bonus power in rank 6.

This one I kind of approve of. It's constructive and doesn't really affect me since I prefer to snipe cloak hide snipe.
Like a ninja. From long range. hmm.... to those that may get the reference... "SNIPER-RIFLE NO JUTSU!":whistle:

[Happy Shepard]

MyryaSzataria wrote...

Yay, yet another cry for people to get nerfed because they're good at what they do. Wanna see where this whole train of thought goes? Check out what happened to the professions in Star Wars Galaxies. One profession would get nerfed, then another, then another, until all of them were useless, some had been out-and-out removed from the game, and all because people were upset they weren't the best and most awesomest ever.

This is not about nerfs. It's about how the Infiltrator class screws the whole balance of this game.

And that's true.

[Dalis918]

As I recall, when the multiplayer first started, people felt the Vanguard was overpowered.

[Samihazah]

Dalis918 wrote...

As I recall, when the multiplayer first started, people felt the Vanguard was overpowered.

Manguard, to be precise.

[RoundedPlanet88]

Samihazah wrote...

Dalis918 wrote...

As I recall, when the multiplayer first started, people felt the Vanguard was overpowered.

Manguard, to be precise.

I still remember the good ole days when my salarian infiltrator 3 shot primes with a lvl 5 widow

[spudspot]

Annomander wrote...

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Well it would certainly show that they balance around how things are supposed to work, not how they actually do work. 

I don't really get why you should balance a character around a very specific loadout, with very specific equipment, leading to absurd damage output due to a bug. (Because if you would, you'd have to nerf every single kit with Warp, not just the Huntress.)

I do however agree that some things cloak does just don't seem right if you're looking at what the classes are supposed to do. 

[HolyAvenger]

I frickin love infiltrators. See your point though.

[Hellfire257]

I think cloak needs to retain its utility but you're certainly raising some valid points about the damage.

[Dalis918]

how about this, change it from generic damage to headshot damage?

[aimimia]

spudspot wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Well it would certainly show that they balance around how things are supposed to work, not how they actually do work. 

I don't really get why you should balance a character around a very specific loadout, with very specific equipment, leading to absurd damage output due to a bug. (Because if you would, you'd have to nerf every single kit with Warp, not just the Huntress.)

I do however agree that some things cloak does just don't seem right if you're looking at what the classes are supposed to do. 

The AHI is quite powerful with any setup she uses, but she's more OP with specific set ups. Having warp ammo III+ makes her ... quite deadly to say the least. From personal experience, I topped gold pugs with her quite easily and that's without the TC weapon damage and me being a horrible player. THat's why most of us are against the weapon damage for her TC, because then... it just makes her OP with ANY setup.

[Riot Inducer]

Feneckus wrote...

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

From where I'm sitting it seems to be the crux of the problem that is making you so damn butt-hurt. *If* infiltrators couldn't abuse TC to ignore the weight system that would pretty much kill any semblance of OPness right there, and it would make the "Bonus power" from cloak evo a more real decision on a lot of infiltrators.

Perhaps if you'd suggested that as a means of balancing them instead of wailing like a quarian with a tummy ache I might be more inclined to agree with you.

[Uchimura]

They could nerf cloak's damage while simultaneously buffing all weapons which could end up keeping Infiltrators as strong as always, while everyone else is a bit better.

Would the game be too easy then?

[RoundedPlanet88]

Riot Inducer wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

- They don't give a damn about cooldowns. A FQI can spam Sabotage every 3s while carrying a Claymore. She can even have a Harrier or Black Widow as backup, with whatever mods, it doesn't matter. A Quarian Soldier with a Hurricane VI (178% cooldown bonus) has to wait 4.63s. And the backfire won't have that ridiculous 80% damage bonus so forget about trying to kill something with it.  It doesn't even make sense to spec into Sabotage.

From where I'm sitting it seems to be the crux of the problem that is making you so damn butt-hurt. *If* infiltrators couldn't abuse TC to ignore the weight system that would pretty much kill any semblance of OPness right there, and it would make the "Bonus power" from cloak evo a more real decision on a lot of infiltrators.

Perhaps if you'd suggested that as a means of balancing them instead of wailing like a quarian with a tummy ache I might be more inclined to agree with you.

-1 internetes for the attitude
+10 internets for the reference

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Nah I actually like my infiltrators .

[Aiiro]

Eh, it's more or less one or two of the infiltrators that really make up the argument for this. But even so, the characters still have their faults (although I admit I can't think of much for the ghost...)

Also, I think it depends on the player and how they handle themselves. I believe that's true for all aspects of the game (weapons, powers, characters, etc.), aside from some very shoddy game mechanics (like the banshee's blue shell warp ball).

[dumdum2]

sandboxgod wrote...
I dunno maybe you are one of those super talented GIs that can break into 200k in Gold. But the rest of us mortals can only avg around 140k if we're playing our good game. 

This is true. I would say that I am decent with the GI for an average player, if I use my GI on U/U/G when playing with randoms I usually end up between 200-250k in score. And then I can suddenly change my class to a non infiltrator class while having randoms in the game that plays with GI and/or TGI, still average around 200k in points with non infiltrator classes even though the guys who played GI and TGI should have outscored me by a huge margin. 

Remembered just now a game I had a while back with three of my friends, they are all good players (way above average) and we did Platinum Goddess Geth. In the team we had 2 Geth Infiltrators with the Pirahna and 1 Turian Ghost with the Harrier. I was playing my Human Sentinel. Guess the outcome? Human Sentinel topped the board with 40-50k more points than the second player on the board.

What I'm saying is this, it is not about the class but about the players themselves. I am not sick of infiltrators, I still prefer to play them and I enjoy having them in my team. People tend to forget that this is an RPG with a co-op MP, so why would it even matter if infiltrators are more versatile than other classes? You play in a team to achieve a certain goal, to cry about certain classes taking punishment because other classes are so much better just shows how much some people have lost the true spirit of the game, now it is just a normal shooter mentality á CoD.

[Invader Nemesis]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Then don't play them.

[Samihazah]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...
I still remember the good ole days when my salarian infiltrator 3 shot primes with a lvl 5 widow

I still remember the good old times when Quarian Female Engineers used to be viable and the Infiltrators wern't used only to farm WGG.
Still can't snipe for (bo)sh(t')eet, so I'll just point this out. QFE was awesome once, now she is forgotten.

[Cyonan]

Feneckus wrote...

Just 2 ? I guess GI and TGI ? So you think the QMI/SI are fine ? 

IMO the only non-broken infiltrators are the Shadow and the Huntress.

Those two are the ones causing the balance issues, yes.

You made a bunch of claims that can only be claimed by the TGI/GI.

With Sabotage the power is just underpowered and needs a cooldown reduction. That is hardly the fault of Tactical Cloak.

You ignore that the main reason the Turian Soldier isn't spamming Proxy Mine is because he's using Marksman, which is a far better damage increase than Tactical Cloak is.

[RoundedPlanet88]

Samihazah wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...
I still remember the good ole days when my salarian infiltrator 3 shot primes with a lvl 5 widow

I still remember the good old times when Quarian Female Engineers used to be viable and the Infiltrators wern't used only to farm WGG.
Still can't snipe for (bo)sh(t')eet, so I'll just point this out. QFE was awesome once, now she is forgotten.

You remember the salarian engineers decoy? It makes me cry now

[Kalas Magnus]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Nah I actually like my infiltrators .

[sandboxgod]

dumdum2 wrote...

sandboxgod wrote...
I dunno maybe you are one of those super talented GIs that can break into 200k in Gold. But the rest of us mortals can only avg around 140k if we're playing our good game. 

This is true. I would say that I am decent with the GI for an average player, if I use my GI on U/U/G when playing with randoms I usually end up between 200-250k in score. And then I can suddenly change my class to a non infiltrator class while having randoms in the game that plays with GI and/or TGI, still average around 200k in points with non infiltrator classes even though the guys who played GI and TGI should have outscored me by a huge margin. 

Remembered just now a game I had a while back with three of my friends, they are all good players (way above average) and we did Platinum Goddess Geth. In the team we had 2 Geth Infiltrators with the Pirahna and 1 Turian Ghost with the Harrier. I was playing my Human Sentinel. Guess the outcome? Human Sentinel topped the board with 40-50k more points than the second player on the board.

What I'm saying is this, it is not about the class but about the players themselves. I am not sick of infiltrators, I still prefer to play them and I enjoy having them in my team. People tend to forget that this is an RPG with a co-op MP, so why would it even matter if infiltrators are more versatile than other classes? You play in a team to achieve a certain goal, to cry about certain classes taking punishment because other classes are so much better just shows how much some people have lost the true spirit of the game, now it is just a normal shooter mentality á CoD.

Dang I wish I could hit 200k. good post. 

[UKStory135]

spudspot wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Huntress: great biotic, will become RIDICULOUSLY overpowered versus virtually everything once the fools @ bioware HQ add 80% damage bonus. Ohai there, Miss "I one clip a possessed praetorian with a reegar".

Well it would certainly show that they balance around how things are supposed to work, not how they actually do work. 

I don't really get why you should balance a character around a very specific loadout, with very specific equipment, leading to absurd damage output due to a bug. (Because if you would, you'd have to nerf every single kit with Warp, not just the Huntress.)

I do however agree that some things cloak does just don't seem right if you're looking at what the classes are supposed to do. 

That gets lost a lot around here. Right now, every character with warp is better than the Huntress, and the if a soldier or other infiltrator has the opportunity to play with a warp character, they will be much than her as far as damage output.