611 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashen One]

Stay mad.

[Constant Motion]

Air Quotes wrote...

Constant Motion wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

There are no real stealth mechanics in the game. No real utility from cloak. So they have to compensate it with damage buffs and other stuff.

There are, though. I can brazenly run past turrets and chill for a few seconds without getting a scratch.

Try doing that against Dragoons. Or Hunters. 

How close are you to these dragoons and hunters?

It doesn't turn you inaudible, and they don't forget about you the second you disappear, but the volus is a great example. Even with its dinky four-second cloak. I was playing the Mercenary against reapers, earlier today. Cloak and roll near a husk, or a brute, or a ravager - most any reaper, and it'll just go off and reap something else.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like all of my experiences with tactical cloaks have been uniformly brilliant. I was swearing loudly, yesterday, when I tried to use my cloak as a panic button and a geth prime just kept firing at me.  I'm not going to say it's not situational, because it is, but ten seconds of invisibility is a very useful thing.

Modifié par Constant Motion, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:36 .

[RaptorSolutions]

Farosyrn wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...


I know what you're saying, I simply disagree with you; the way cloak works -and you make it a point to explain that in detail whenever the issue about cloak comes up- it's not an I-Win button. The invisibility is very meh

It does work 95% of the time if you cloak out of sight of the enemy. Besides, worst case scenario, you "only" get 80% damage bonus and a big eff you to cooldowns. Still pretty damn good. No other class can do that.

Not saying it isn't a good power, don't get me wrong. But at times it sounds like it's an I-win button, cloak, no one can shoot/stab/stagger you, kill all the things instantly and stuff.
95% working, though? You know what they say about 98% of all statistics, right?
Also, when you say out of sight, you mean in hard cover, with no enemies behind you on the map, even if turning their back on you, same with your flanks. Also, of course, enemies have supernatural hearing, so often when you can't run a 20 meter arc around that phantom, it will just grab and instakill you.
And against geth, which is after all 1/4 of the game, trying to use cloak as a defensive tool is just a source of frustration.


That's not a whole lot of non-infiltrator snipers. Sure, they exist. Even then, though, I daresay the geth trooper would be better off flaming all the things. Also, infiltrators are supposed to be excellent snipers. Complaining about the fact that they are is just ridiculous. Although I probably brought that on with my phrasing...

I do wonder though how it'll be like if the TC weapon damage boost was changed to only include snipers and SMGs, like the Guerilla Package.

[mybudgee]

I am sick of infiltrators with faulty cloaks...

[Xaijin]

Feneckus wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Geth Infiltrator has more survivability than my N7 Paladin?

Maybe not the Paladin.

But the GI actually has great survivability because he can stagger enemies in a 4.5m radius every 3s, go invisible and of course he has hunter mode. 

Also, can we just stop pretending like it's the Infiltrator class as a whole and blame the 2 specific characters within it that it really is?

Just 2 ? I guess GI and TGI ? So you think the QMI/SI are fine ? 

IMO the only non-broken infiltrators are the Shadow and the Huntress.

Shadow's spike damage makes krogan look like pet frogs.

[Eriseley]

RaptorSolutions wrote...

I do wonder though how it'll be like if the TC weapon damage boost was changed to only include snipers and SMGs, like the Guerilla Package.

Hurricanes. Hurricanes everywhere.

[Samihazah]

Sammorbai wrote...

The enemy shouldn’t be able to see us while we're cloaked, just like we shouldn’t be able to see a cloaked Hunter without something like Tactical Scan, Hunter Mode, or Recon Mine revealing them to us.

Now that would be amusing upon the release of the game.
Conclusion: No.

[Feneckus]

Farosyrn wrote...

That's not a whole lot of non-infiltrator snipers. Sure, they exist. Even then, though, I daresay the geth trooper would be better off flaming all the things. 

A Geth Trooper with a Javelin + phasic rounds can one shot everything that's not a boss, including phantoms. And vs bosses, the Javelin is an Acolyte on steroids.

[aimimia]

Feneckus wrote...

Farosyrn wrote...

That's not a whole lot of non-infiltrator snipers. Sure, they exist. Even then, though, I daresay the geth trooper would be better off flaming all the things. 

A Geth Trooper with a Javelin + phasic rounds can one shot everything that's not a boss, including phantoms. And vs bosses, the Javelin is an Acolyte on steroids.

Personally it's more of an issue with how TC doesn't bother with Cooldowns at all. More so with all the benefits and the no disadvantages you get for using it. 

[JGDD]

"Anyone else sick of Infiltrators ?"

Nope. Recently discovered how great the GI is for wallhacks while rocking a Crusader. Haven't used him much lately but this may change things.

[Eriseley]

Air Quotes wrote...

That invisibility can't be used to suprise an enemy most of the time or to confuse him. It can't be used to carry objectives or to escort drones, you can't revive and stay cloaked. 

Anyway. It's a game about DPS.

I expect it works a bit better than people think, like the Drones/Decoy still can. You don't notice the stuff that's not shooting you while you're mowing down other stuff. But it's not effective (or reliable anyway) as a "NOT IN THE FACE!" *squidfart*

Modifié par Eriseley, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:55 .

[jaydubs67]

Another downside, besides making game balance a nightmare, is that doing well with some of the infiltrators at this point is basically meaningless. I want to be able to excel as an infiltrator and actually feel a sense of accomplishment.

Remember when that dev posted a "what I learned from lone wolf" and got lampooned for playing TGI and GI? Wouldn't it be nice if after doing well with one of those classes, you could actually pat yourself on the back for a job well done rather than, "lol, TGI/GI?"

[Farosyrn]

Xaijin wrote...

Shadow's spike damage makes krogan look like pet frogs.

Please don't say you are trying to tell us that shadows are overpowered or anything. 'cause that would be the tombstone of credibility concerning this discussion.

Feneckus wrote...

A Geth Trooper with a Javelin + phasic
rounds can one shot everything that's not a boss, including phantoms.
And vs bosses, the Javelin is an Acolyte on steroids.

Sure thing. But doesn't that just mean the Geth Trooper is overpowered? I mean, the GI was meant to snipe the crap out of stuff, the soldier on the other hand...more like a jack of all trades.

[Feneckus]

That Tactical Cloak whining makes no sense.

Even if it didn't make you invisible it would still be the best power in the game.

[BridgeBurner]

Farosyrn wrote...


And complaining about the SI...seriously? The guy is fine. Not like the Krogan Vanguard for example. I really hope you never, ever touch that guy, because that would really make me doubt the integrity of your anti-infiltrator campaign...

Couldn't really care less about the kroguard, if i want to solo something for bomber points, or guardian points I might take him so i don't even need to bother trying.

Give tactical cloak a 10 second base cooldown. Then, Infiltrators would need to think twice about their loadouts, and what they are doing. Why the f*ck should carnage, or sabotage, have a huge cooldown, and tactical cloak (an infinitely superior power) does not? That makes no sense and is stupidly broken from a balance point of view.

Some of you in this thread should actually listen to Feneckus' points, he's one hell of a better player than most of the people defending their easy mode infiltrators.

Modifié par Annomander, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:54 .

[Constant Motion]

Air Quotes wrote...

Constant Motion wrote...

How close are you to these dragoons and hunters?

It doesn't turn you inaudible, and they don't forget about you the second you disappear, but the volus is a great xample. Even with its dinky four-second cloak. I was playing the Mercenary against reapers, earlier today. Cloak and roll near a husk, or a brute, or a ravager - most any reaper, and it'll just go off and reap something else.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like all of my experiences with tactical cloaks have been uniformly brilliant. I was swearing loudly, yesterday, when I tried to use my cloak as a panic button and a geth prime just kept firing at me.  I'm not going to say it's not situational, because it is, but ten seconds of invisibility is a very useful thing.

That invisibility can't be used to suprise an enemy most of the time or to confuse him. It can't be used to carry objectives or to escort drones, you can't revive and stay cloaked. 

Anyway. It's a game about DPS. 

No, but you can cloak to revive a downed enemy more safely, and you can cloak to deactivate a device without being constantly molested by bombers, husks or abominations, and you can use it to retreat, and to help secure an extraction bonus, and to get to the other side of a Guardian or an Atlas, and to reduce the heat when a boss is approaching you with a sync-kill in its eyes, etc. etc. etc.

As for DPS... I don't think we're ever going to agree on that one. I don't really think it's possible to form a coherent argument that any game with sync-kills, soft cover, stagger mechanics, team objectives, support characters and so many different powers is purely about DPS, but if that's how you play it, that's how you play it. I'm a Gold player, it's probably different on Platinum where I'm guessing you might tend to play, and if that's the case, I'm not going to hector you about a ballpark that you clearly know better than me.

Modifié par Constant Motion, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[Cyonan]

Annomander wrote...

Couldn't really care less about the kroguard, if i want to solo something for bomber points, or guardian points I might take him so i don't even need to bother trying.

Give tactical cloak a 10 second base cooldown. Then, Infiltrators would need to think twice about their loadouts, and what they are doing.

Some of you in this thread should actually listen to Feneckus' points, he's one hell of a better player than most of the people defending their easy mode infiltrators.

Wish granted.

Anything else you'd like?

[Feneckus]

Farosyrn wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

A Geth Trooper with a Javelin + phasic
rounds can one shot everything that's not a boss, including phantoms.
And vs bosses, the Javelin is an Acolyte on steroids.

Sure thing. But doesn't that just mean the Geth Trooper is overpowered? I mean, the GI was meant to snipe the crap out of stuff, the soldier on the other hand...more like a jack of all trades.

The Geth Trooper has to get headshots vs Phantoms, Dragoons and Collector Captains. No such problem with GI.

And even if the Geth Trooper is in flamer range, he can't kill bosses as fast as the GI, who can do it while being on the other side of the map with a couple of walls between him and his target.

[Sammorbai]

Samihazah wrote...

Sammorbai wrote...

The enemy shouldn’t be able to see us while we're cloaked, just like we shouldn’t be able to see a cloaked Hunter without something like Tactical Scan, Hunter Mode, or Recon Mine revealing them to us.

Now that would be amusing upon the release of the game.
Conclusion: No.

True, this couldn't have been implemented in the multiplayer when the game was first released without pissing off the player base.  Unless there were other changes as well (like making the Hunters blatantly obviously loud or giving the assorted scope weapon mods the ability to see Hunters the way we see them now).  But now that we do have Tactical Scan, Hunter Mode, Recon Mine, and the thermal scopes, why not?  It would make some kits absolutely invaluable when fighting Geth: male Quarians, Geth, and Volus engineers to point them out, anyone with Flamer to do the occassional "spy check," etc.

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan wrote...

Wish granted.

Anything else you'd like?

Well excuse me for valuing balance.

As I stated above. WHy does carnage, or sabotage, have a huge cooldown, yet tactical cloak does not?

EDIT: and more to the point, why is a f*cking GI better at melee than a krogan?

Why does a HUNTRESS deal 3-4 bars of armour versus a brute with a single HM, when a krogan sentinel cannot?

Modifié par Annomander, 05 décembre 2012 - 01:58 .

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

We already had Tactical Cloack crisis 5 monts ago, go away.

[Cyonan]

Annomander wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Wish granted.

Anything else you'd like?

Well excuse me for valuing balance.

As I stated above. WHy does carnage, or sabotage, have a huge cooldown, yet tactical cloak does not?

I think you missed the point of my sarcastic reply.

You said give TC a base 10 second cooldown, but it already has that =P