17 réponses à ce sujet

[cJohnOne]

Merrill could be ditzy.  Isabela could be sexual.  Are you satisfied with how woman are portrayed in the Dragon Age games?

I was thinking that guys aren't that interested in an unattractive love interest.  What do you think?

[Kajagoogoo3]

What about Aveline? She's clad in armor the whole game. Strong, protective of her friends and family. I don't think she was made for eye candy. (Not saying she's ugly mind you).

[Face of Evil]

I think they're portrayed even-handedly. There are quite a few strong and likeable female characters in both games who fill a variety of roles, but neither are the women all portrayed as bastions of common sense or just plain superior to men.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 05 décembre 2012 - 05:30 .

[whykikyouwhy]

I think that the female characters in Dragon Age are well-written. They're not one note - they possess a lot of nuances beyond and beneath the surface, and, in the case of the companions, show solid character development.

There is some fairness in their portrayal when compared to the male characters. They are, collectively, written as individuals - flawed and mortal in their dealings, but still possessing wonderful qualities.

[Maria Caliban]

Sometimes, I want to talk about how BioWare's portrayal of women could be better. Then I see things like Hitman: Absolution (the stripper-nun) or Far Cry 3 (savage, half-naked woman of color gives white dude mystical hunter powers) and I'm just glad that one game developer attempts to tackle the difficult job of having women as regular human beings.

[FaWa]

Bioware is good at making women equal to men. Its been this way ever since Baldurs Gate.

And instead of making girls wear less revealing clothes, why can't just wear more revealing clothes?

[Isaantia]

I think there are a lot of really strong, really diverse female characters in the Dragon Age universe. Especially so in the games and in the player's party. Moira, Rowan, Flemeth, Aveline, Morrigan, Merrill, Isabela, Shale, Katriel, Fiona, Eleanor, Wynne, Leliana, Alfstanna, Shiani, Jarvia, Evangeline, Cassandra... etc. I appreciate this variety of female characters because women are not a monolithic entity that use a hivemind, like darkspawn.

Where I feel DA could be better is in the mundane quests - like why am I only conscripting dudes for the blackstone irregulars? Why are the all the widows ladies? Or my other gripe is plots that seem to skew to a male PC "cannon".

But with every game there is improvement and that is why I fangirl bioware so much.

[stoicsentry2]

Why is "strength" such a big factor?

[Reikilea]

I believe Dragon age had many great characters. But with DA2 and that suden increase in the chest area I actuall got bored by it. Same thing that happened with Mass Effect. Oversexualisation. I thought that neckline (or whatever you call it in english) for Leandra was completely unnecesary. I mean do I need to stare at my mother´s breast everytime she talks to me?

Actuall except Aveline I disliked every female companion in the second game.

Isabella, running into the fight in her nightgown. Yes I know its her character, but please just a bit of armour? The poit is I didn´t mind with morrigan *(At elaste you could dress her up semethimes) beecause it fotted here character and she was a witch. But Isabella was supposed to be a fighter.

And I´m sorry but I thought that Merril was so stupid. I got really angry during her character quest. I just thought they went over the top. But still couldnt get worse than EDI. I agreed with every word the keeper said. Wish I coudl switch them.

For me, the second game came up with too many stereotypes. I mean sexi pirate, stuttering illogical elf with anime eyes...

So only Aveline for me. Bethany was fine too. I never thought I would miss teacher like characters as Wynne. I miss Wynne. Or Sigrun. Sigrun was great. And Anora was cool. And I don´t even like when characters are blatanly good.

[whykikyouwhy]

Reikilea wrote...

For me, the second game came up with too many stereotypes. I mean sexi pirate, stuttering illogical elf with anime eyes...

I'm fairly certain that Isabela was written to be the figurative book judged by the cover - overt, brash, exuding sex appeal. But listen to her conversations throughout the ganme, both with Hawke and the other companions, and handle her quests, and you'll see a good deal of character development and depth. That was the point - and she even addresses the quick judgements made upon her because of how she looks.

Merrill is naive in the ways of humans and their culture, but confident and sharp when engaged with her clan. She's emphatic and exhuberent because that's part of her personality - she tries to see the good in things (something that also comes up in conversation).

So while these characters may seem to be stereotypes at first glance, there is much more to them than meets the eye.

[Reikilea]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

For me, the second game came up with too many stereotypes. I mean sexi pirate, stuttering illogical elf with anime eyes...

I'm fairly certain that Isabela was written to be the figurative book judged by the cover - overt, brash, exuding sex appeal. But listen to her conversations throughout the ganme, both with Hawke and the other companions, and handle her quests, and you'll see a good deal of character development and depth. That was the point - and she even addresses the quick judgements made upon her because of how she looks.

Merrill is naive in the ways of humans and their culture, but confident and sharp when engaged with her clan. She's emphatic and exhuberent because that's part of her personality - she tries to see the good in things (something that also comes up in conversation).

So while these characters may seem to be stereotypes at first glance, there is much more to them than meets the eye.

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I know. I listened to them. I did all their
quests. But that doesn’t have to mean I agree with them. I liked Isabella
boldness. Especially enjoyed her cynism. However, I would love to see trousers
on her and no matter what she did I still wasn’t smitten by her. She is a
strong character, and I think that her look actually drags her character down. But
the point is that I have to look through her appearance and that bothers me -
as it is an increasing then in the present Bioware games. I seriously wish she
at least got trousers. And I like her much better than Merrill. And sorry nothing
will persuade me that what Merrill did want completely stupid and actually
ruined her clan forever. In my opinion her characters was completely unnecessary.
She is just reused cute Tali-type of a character. But this is the whole game problem,
they were constantly pushing you to something with that prescribed mage-templar
conflict so they were just throwing good mages, bad mages, blood mages or templar’s
at you.






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[bleetman]

For me, there's an important distinction. Isabela is, by all accounts, a sexy pirate, in that she's a) a pirate and sexy. The difference is that said sexy pirate-ness isn't her sole defining (or really, her primary) attribute. It's not the be all and end all of her character. Her role in the game isn't to give me an erection, and I never feel as though her design was intended with that in mind. She's a legitimately robust person, and I don't feel as though who she is and what she looks like are at odds with one another, like I did with, say, half the cast of Mass Effect.

Though I do occasionally wish she'd put on something more resilient when we're going to fight dragons, but hey.

[whykikyouwhy]

Reikilea wrote...

I know. I listened to them. I did all their
quests. But that doesn’t have to mean I agree with them. I liked Isabella
boldness. Especially enjoyed her cynism. However, I would love to see trousers
on her and no matter what she did I still wasn’t smitten by her. She is a
strong character, and I think that her look actually drags her character down. But
the point is that I have to look through her appearance and that bothers me -
as it is an increasing then in the present Bioware games. I seriously wish she
at least got trousers. And I like her much better than Merrill. And sorry nothing
will persuade me that what Merrill did want completely stupid and actually
ruined her clan forever. In my opinion her characters was completely unnecessary.
She is just reused cute Tali-type of a character. But this is the whole game problem,
they were constantly pushing you to something with that prescribed mage-templar
conflict so they were just throwing good mages, bad mages, blood mages or templar’s
at you.

Whether or not you like a character is a personal opinion, of course.

But regarding the sentence that I bolded...how does a flattering outfit, even one that is revealing, drag her down? How does it demean her? It's her choice to wear it - she wears it for comfort, for the reaction, for the ease of movement when fighting - all manner of reasons that may be hers and hers alone. In that regard, she owns her appearance and the effect that it has. 

So, I'm curious - how would trousers change that? Why would having her legs covered elevate her? What if her outfit was a skirt...would she need to wear trousers to be seen in a more positive light?

Her apparel isn't for the sake of titillation other than to align with her character. As bleetman said, she is indeed a sexy pirate, so the outfit makes sense. Aveline in Isabela's outfit would be incongruent because the clothes would not match who and how the character is, just as armor on Isabela would be ill-fitting.

[Quething]

Faerunner wrote...

Compared to most other video games? Yes. By their own merit? I think they can improve.

[Navasha]

They are fine. The female characters are written with far more depth than the male characters if you want to be honest.

There were no strong males either in the game other than maybe Varric. Fenris and Anders both were very shallow characters because of their single-focused extreme views on magic.

In the end though, this is a fantasy game. Interesting characters have to stand out from the crowd. There would be MUCH more dissatisfaction from the fans and consumers if character looked plain and simple like the extras mulling around in the streets. For me, I prefer to keep the real world political correctness away from escapist fantasy.

[Corker]

At the level of individual characters, I'm fairly satisfied.

Looking at overall trends and tropes, somewhat less so.

[Reikilea]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

I know. I listened to them. I did all their
quests. But that doesn’t have to mean I agree with them. I liked Isabella
boldness. Especially enjoyed her cynism. However, I would love to see trousers
on her and no matter what she did I still wasn’t smitten by her. She is a
strong character, and I think that her look actually drags her character down. But
the point is that I have to look through her appearance and that bothers me -
as it is an increasing then in the present Bioware games. I seriously wish she
at least got trousers. And I like her much better than Merrill. And sorry nothing
will persuade me that what Merrill did want completely stupid and actually
ruined her clan forever. In my opinion her characters was completely unnecessary.
She is just reused cute Tali-type of a character. But this is the whole game problem,
they were constantly pushing you to something with that prescribed mage-templar
conflict so they were just throwing good mages, bad mages, blood mages or templar’s
at you.

Whether or not you like a character is a personal opinion, of course.

But regarding the sentence that I bolded...how does a flattering outfit, even one that is revealing, drag her down? How does it demean her? It's her choice to wear it - she wears it for comfort, for the reaction, for the ease of movement when fighting - all manner of reasons that may be hers and hers alone. In that regard, she owns her appearance and the effect that it has. 

So, I'm curious - how would trousers change that? Why would having her legs covered elevate her? What if her outfit was a skirt...would she need to wear trousers to be seen in a more positive light?

Her apparel isn't for the sake of titillation other than to align with her character. As bleetman said, she is indeed a sexy pirate, so the outfit makes sense. Aveline in Isabela's outfit would be incongruent because the clothes would not match who and how the character is, just as armor on Isabela would be ill-fitting.

Oh my, that awful formatting I did. I know it goes with the whole sexy pirate perk. Its kind of stereotype that must be
done when you have a female pirate. Maybe that’s one of the reason why it isn’t working on me, as I feel like what is Bioware doing now is the hyperbolisation of a character. I get the point she is a sexy pirate, but must you stuff it
into my face that much? So, I thought maybe they overdid it. It kind of worries me when they dress up fighter type in  something like that - especially someone who wields swords and daggers. It doesn’t make me to take her seriously as a fighter. Its just that direction Bioware took after me2. I know it’s supposed to enhance their unique character, but somehow doesn’t serve the other purpose than just to be obviously sexy for the sake of popularity within male community. It’s probably only my thing, but I found it weird she was only wearing a shirt
or dress was it? Why would fighter leave so much uncovered?


I understand it’s her personality all al of that. Bioware wanted her like that, but I can’t stop feeling that scheme behind
her.
But I shouldn’t be surprised. Games are made for men. Even Aela the Huntress had a bit of armour. And I can’t say she had that much of clothing.  However, I think in her case it worked better.

Modifié par Reikilea, 10 décembre 2012 - 01:50 .