167 réponses à ce sujet

[d_nought]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

 Bat Soldier

The less said about this guy, the better

[xcrunr1647]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I don't understand why so many people are still complaining about the GI when the TGI is the clear ZOMG EZ-MOADE class right now, even after the slight nerf it got yesterday.

 

Not to mention the Kroguard, Bat Soldier, QMI, Demolisher and Destroyer, all of which are for more "easy mode" than a GI. Most of them don't even require you to aim.

Agreed. 

Though I do get a good laugh out of it when you see a terribad demolisher throwing grenades and hitting the ceiling or whatever the map-equivalent is. Accurately chucking grenades from one side of the map to the other is a skill, though, in their defense. One that it took me a loooong time to perfect. 

Totally comes in handy on maps like Ghost, Giant, White, Hydra, and Dagger, though. Just to name a few. 

[aimimia]

Volus engineer? Please please please? It's like a very high learning curve. You need to know the spawns, power synergy, survivality and power radius for you to do well with him. If you know how to use him, then killstreaks incoming.

[Zorinho20_CRO]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I don't understand why so many people are still complaining about the GI when the TGI is the clear ZOMG EZ-MOADE class right now, even after the slight nerf it got yesterday.

 

Not to mention the Kroguard, Bat Soldier, QMI, Demolisher and Destroyer, all of which are for more "easy mode" than a GI. Most of them don't even require you to aim.

Have to agree with you based on my own solo experience.I could maybe solo gold with GI without HM,but then it is not same character.

[OliveiraAM]

I'd say the drell. They are fast, but if you don't know how to preserve yourself, you will go down fast.

[M-pod]

My vote is on fury.

[GriM_AoD]

I see people failing badly with the FQE/FQI.
Well, whenever I actually see other ones, they seem to be a rarity.

And the Fury

Modifié par GriM_AoD, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[aimimia]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

aimimia wrote...

Volus engineer? Please please please? It's like a very high learning curve. You need to know the spawns, power synergy, survivality and power radius for you to do well with him. If you know how to use him, then killstreaks incoming.

 

Nah, completely easy mode. He gets huge survivability from I-frames from shield boost, constant 50% DR & constantly regenerating shields. He gets aggro dump via TC, I frames and shield regen from his H melee, plus with the debuff from Recon mine and prox mines he can actually put out serious damage.

Obviously easy mode, there is no skill required. Just like using the GI. No skill whatsoever.

You are right, sorry about that. I'll go back to watching pugs using the GI and VE dying over and over again. 

[Deerber]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Deerber wrote...

One question: do you use GI much? Cause I've been learning how to use a talon GI lately, so I used him a lot.

Sure, his shields are not bad. But whenever someone thinks about "squishy" and "tanky" in this game, he only thinks about shields. You know what?

Health has got a part in that, too. Believe it or not.

So yeah, humans and whatever else that has got no way to regenerate health/shields (not many kits, actually, if you think about it, and they all have full dodge capabilities, while GI only has a stupid sidestep...) might have (slightly) less shields.

But once its shields are down, a GI on platinum goes down by 2 swarmers. Yeah, you read it right. 2 swarmers hit you after you were shieldgated? Better use an ops pack, or ask for a revive already.

You walk on a bit of ravager blood by mistake, after being shieldgated? Not even the time to use the ops pack, it's either gel or revive.

So yes, GIs need a bit of know-how to work. I always thought they didn't, but I started using them a lot lately, as I said, and realized they do.

Still a lot less than drellguard, but they do.

I used to use the GI a lot, back in the day.  I needed it.  I ran it through the Krysae days.  I ran it through the Piranha days too.  Now I just run it for certain challenges, like the Javelin and Krysae (which is much better than people seem to think).  But yes, I've been "around the block" quite a few times with the GI.  

I'm currently doing the GE challenge in Machine Mastery, so I know that health matters.  But it matters a whole lot less than shields, since if you take health damage a few times, you're down to a single bar.  And health gate is health gate, no matter how much health you have.  

There are a lot of reasons I think the GI is OP.  There's the fact that he has undeniably some of the best damage in the game, and undeniably some of the best utility skills (cloak and wallhacks).  There's the fact he has decent shields with consumables, as discussed.  There's the fact that whenever people do speedruns or solos, he's inevitably one of the more popular choices.  There's the fact that when I, or any of my friends picks up a GI (w/ cyclonics) for a game, we suddenly do significantly better, even if the previous game is with a class we're more familiar with.  There's the fact that so many people, both that I know and on the boards, use him as a "go to" class.  The very idea that there are "go to" classes suggests an imbalance.  

Okay.  It's not as braindead as kroguard and shield boosters vs geth.  Or the TGI superman (haven't tried him post stim nerf).  But it's a lot, lot easier to do well with than most classes out there if you are using cyclonic modulators to counter it's supposed squishiness.  Most of the people who try to argue it's balanced are either in serious denial, are "doing it wrong," or are disengenously trying to preserve an OP class without simply saying "I like it being OP."  

As I said, I didn't mean to say that health is more important than shields, just that it's important as well and that it usually gets overseen. That said, healthgate will not help you against DoTs. And currently, there are a frekin' lots of DoTs around.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that GI is balanced. Not at all, it's still one of the most powerful classes in the game.

I'm just arguing that it need some skills to be used effectively, that's all.

Lots of people seem to think it doesn't, but it does.

Sure, it makes you do things which you wouldn't be able to do with other classes. Well, it's an infiltrator, that's all. And a very good one. So yes, it does that and no, it's not perfectly balanced.

But you still won't do that good without a bit of knowledge of him 

Lord_Sirian wrote...

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I don't understand why so many people are still complaining about the GI when the TGI is the clear ZOMG EZ-MOADE class right now, even after the slight nerf it got yesterday.

 

Not to mention the Kroguard, Bat Soldier, QMI, Demolisher and Destroyer, all of which are for more "easy mode" than a GI. Most of them don't even require you to aim.

I'll tell you why people don't complain about those being easy mode. Because even though GI needs a bit more skills (not much, a bit more), when you do have those skills (I have them, so it's not that hard) you will wreck things in such a way that none of those kits can. Exception made for the QMI, possibly. Oh wait... Another fellow infiltrator! :happy:

Obviously, that doesn't count for the TGI. Even after the nerf, he's one of the guys with the best DPS around, best overall survivability in the game (TC+free ops packs anyone?), best mobility in the game being an infiltrator, one of the best (although arguable here) dodges in the game, best at doing objectives... Is there any area in which this kit is not the best? Don't think so...

Modifié par Deerber, 05 décembre 2012 - 02:34 .

[jaydubs67]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

xcrunr1647 wrote...

I don't understand why so many people are still complaining about the GI when the TGI is the clear ZOMG EZ-MOADE class right now, even after the slight nerf it got yesterday.

 

Not to mention the Kroguard, Bat Soldier, QMI, Demolisher and Destroyer, all of which are for more "easy mode" than a GI. Most of them don't even require you to aim.

We just had a 12+ page TGI thread yesterday.  The only reason it's not a big topic in this thread is that there aren't a bunch of "no guys, TGI is totally skill" people here actively defending it.  

On the contrary, there seem to be all these GI fanboys trying to convince the world that the GI doesn't belong in the list with the classes above.  Hey look over there, other OP classes =/= GI is balanced.  

You can add the "all-priming cryo god" Paladin to the list btw.  

[jaydubs67]

10 minute speedrun capability is way more important that class balance!  If they nerf the most powerful stuff, everyone will just be doing 12 minute speedruns instead of 10!  What a terrible price to pay for more variety and replayability!  Oh woe is me!  

How was that?  Crazed hyperbole is your preferred method or argumentation, right?  Is this because I showed you GIs were less squishy than vanilla humans?  Did I rock your world baby?  

[aimimia]

After hearing the paladin is OP, I stopped wanting to argue. Maybe OP needs to be redefined .. Because it seems it's gone on a tangent. I've only seen one person so far out score my using the GI by twice my score when I did good. ( 130k for me and 259k for him) I figure since that's not happening too often, I am thinking that it requires some sort of skill? Also, balanced and over
Powere is too different things. OP is like inferno grenades, balanced only becomes OP in a skilled persons hands. The volus engineer is OP to the point of getting three killstreaks in the first three waves when used by FEneckus, but is it OP in general?

[RedJohn]

I found that all characters in fact are a freaking easy mode :/

[Feneckus]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Really? "No skill required"? I'm sure Jay and Sten will be glad to hear their speedrun records required no skill to do. And that just any old scrub could do them because they were using two "easy mode/no skill classes".

Great players being able to take the GI to another level is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make.

The GI does allow some players to play at a level that's simply not theirs.

 

Rubbish. Just like your claim about the GI being able to kill 2 Atlases before a HS could drop one Atlas' shields was rubbish.

Well, technically, you had the bigger hyperbole. You claimed a Claymore HS could drop an Atlas just as fast as any GI.

I did some tests :

Claymore HS : 3.1s to remove its shields, 8.12s to kill
Typhoon HS : 3.6s to remove its shields, 7.02s to kill

Talon GI : 4.73s to kill
Javelin GI : 5.28s to kill

My prediction was actually closer than yours.

[TattyUD]

jaydubs67 wrote...

You can add the "all-priming cryo god" Paladin to the list btw.  

I, for one, welcome our new chilly overlord.

[TheKillerAngel]

oh my god can you feel the drama

[Amftron]

 I do okay with the Drellguard on Gold, i don't really like Platinum so i can't comment on that.

I can't for the life of me make a GI work though, no matter what build i try or what consumables i use i am just plain bad with it.

[aimimia]

Amftron wrote...

 I do okay with the Drellguard on Gold, i don't really like Platinum so i can't comment on that.

I can't for the life of me make a GI work though, no matter what build i try or what consumables i use i am just plain bad with it.

you probably are A) not killing things fast enough - not using soft cover
Much. Assuming your dying often rather then my neon able to dish out good damage. Watch xcalizorz video with the GI Bw that's a standard GI build and does really good

[Deerber]

Feneckus wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Really? "No skill required"? I'm sure Jay and Sten will be glad to hear their speedrun records required no skill to do. And that just any old scrub could do them because they were using two "easy mode/no skill classes".

Great players being able to take the GI to another level is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make.

The GI does allow some players to play at a level that's simply not theirs.

 

Rubbish. Just like your claim about the GI being able to kill 2 Atlases before a HS could drop one Atlas' shields was rubbish.

Well, technically, you had the bigger hyperbole. You claimed a Claymore HS could drop an Atlas just as fast as any GI.

I did some tests :

Claymore HS : 3.1s to remove its shields, 8.12s to kill
Typhoon HS : 3.6s to remove its shields, 7.02s to kill

Talon GI : 4.73s to kill
Javelin GI : 5.28s to kill

My prediction was actually closer than yours.

But you were both obviously wrong. So, you guys obviously suck. I can outscore you whenever and with whatever kit/combos. Yes, with a lvl 1 drell adept using a predator as well. 

Now, with all the weirdness been said, why don't we go back on topic? Whic was not which class is OP and which is not, it was: which class has the highest skill curve on gold/plat. 

Which to me means, which class has the highest (benefit from being able to play it very well)*(how long does it take to be able to play it very well).