209 réponses à ce sujet

[samgurl775]

Is she wrong? The hanar look like Jellyfish and the elcor look like elephants.

[SeptimusMagistos]

iSousek wrote...

Can you guys refresh my memory a bit. You say you have confronted her four times about Cerberus ties, yet I only remember Mars mission and the resolution at the hospital scene. That makes it one, two if you count Horizon (which I don't because you are obviously forking with Cerberus at that point)

There are three separate instances on Mars.

The rapid succession makes it kind of tedious.

xsdob wrote...

So do we ignore shepard being brought back
from the dead when talking about her?

Nope. Shepard came back from the dead. What of it?

xsdob wrote...
And how she's the only one who
reacts semi-realistically to hearing this, with shock and
uncertainty?

I like the people who reacted with hugs better.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 06 décembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[ADLegend21]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Well first off, it's bugged. she's only supposed to say that around a keeper.

Source?

Bioware.

[iSousek]

There are three separate instances on Mars.

The rapid succession makes it kind of tedious.

I don't really see that as three conversation since they were all within an hour and there was no time for emotional an mental coping. Its like you go to a restaurant with your friends and you talk about a subject but you get interfered a few times. /badanalogyiknow

[Clone 071]

iSousek wrote...

Can you guys refresh my memory a bit. You say you have confronted her four times about Cerberus ties, yet I only remember Mars mission and the resolution at the hospital scene. That makes it one, two if you count Horizon (which I don't because you are obviously forking with Cerberus at that point)

They're saying four times because of ME2 Horizon and 3 different times during Mars. First happened when Vega mention, "Those guys looked like Cerberus." Ash asks, "What's Cerberus doing on Mars?", in reference to Shepard's past ties. Second happens when you get inside the base, and Ash tells Shepard that she needs a straight answer. Third happens indirectly when Ash and Shepard discover the Reaper implant markings on the dead Centurion's face where Ash states that for all she knew that could've been Shepard.

[xsdob]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Can you guys refresh my memory a bit. You say you have confronted her four times about Cerberus ties, yet I only remember Mars mission and the resolution at the hospital scene. That makes it one, two if you count Horizon (which I don't because you are obviously forking with Cerberus at that point)

There are three separate instances on Mars.

The rapid succession makes it kind of tedious.

xsdob wrote...

So do we ignore shepard being brought back
from the dead when talking about her?

Nope. Shepard came back from the dead. What of it?

xsdob wrote...
And how she's the only one who
reacts semi-realistically to hearing this, with shock and
uncertainty?

I like the people who reacted with hugs better.

So if someone dropped off the grid for 2 or 3 years, didn't show up at all or contact you, and than suddenly while your on a mission that goes bad that nobody is supposed to know about, shows up out of nowhere saying they died and were ressurected by a terrorist orginization he fought against and is now helping, that you wouldn't be suspicious at all?

It's not like shepard does anything to try and ease her concerns over it with his "cerberus aren't bad guys" lines, even his I'm not working for cerberus lines come off as hollow lies because, he is working for them, and he's just admitted to it as soon as he finished greeting you.

Modifié par xsdob, 06 décembre 2012 - 05:26 .

[Iakus]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

iakus wrote...

She knows she's being unreasonable.  That's why she says "I doubt anything you say could convince me"  Listen to the tone.  She's not angry about it, she's resigned.  She wants to believe, she wants to be reassured, but it's simply not in her nature to be trusting.  And she's pleasantly suprised when Shepard does.

But that's the problem.

Why is this a problem?  I find it quite realistic

I'm counting Horizon. Which was the reasonable time to trust Shepard. He'd trust her if the positions were reversed.

Sure, because you're Shepard and have meta knowledge.

And like I said, Horizon is awful, I'd rather just forget that happened.

iakus wrote...
And given the next time Shepard speaks to her is at the hospital where she says she accepts that Shep's cut all ties to Cerberus.

Which is nice, I'll admit. But it comes out kind of suddenly considering her previous comments on the matter and feelings aren't improved by the eventual standoff. While that's the one part of this whole thing I've never blamed her for, it doesn't help assuage hurt feelings from the previous interactions.

I don't see it as being sudden.  Like I said, Ash is coming around during Mars (assuming you picked the appropriate repsponses.  And has had some time to reflect while recovering on the Citadel.  

And the standoff is easily defused, again if you picked the correct responses

[Iakus]

iSousek wrote...

I think some of you here don't understand what rascism is. There is no such thing as justified or cool rascism.

Apparantly, this is not the case.  It's okay to call other races "primitives" and talk about what their livers taste like.  Though it's not okay to be concerned that they won't stand by humanity in a crisis.

[Sejborg]

iakus wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

iSousek wrote...

You just admitted you ignored her the whole time, even though she asked for you. I am gonna call that treating her like dirt. And the "I was to busy saving the galaxy" argument doesn't work in ME 3 considering all the side activity. You didn't visit her because you didn't want to see her and talk to her. She knows it.

What side activity? Curing the genophage? Uniting the mercs? 

Aria's missions, Jondum Bau's mission, Barla Von's mission,  not to mention the truckloads of War Asset stuff to be unloaded...

Yeah Shepard has absolutely no reason to visit the Citadel...

Edit:  Not to mention jusdt plain "buying stuff" to equip SHepard and the squad.  What you can't stop in  and say "hi" while buying a medigel upgrade?

I somehow imagined Our_Last_Scene's Shepard to be just like Millhouse in this clip:
www.youtube.com/watch
There simply wasn't any time to visit Ashley. 

Modifié par Sejborg, 06 décembre 2012 - 05:37 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

xsdob wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Can you guys refresh my memory a bit. You say you have confronted her four times about Cerberus ties, yet I only remember Mars mission and the resolution at the hospital scene. That makes it one, two if you count Horizon (which I don't because you are obviously forking with Cerberus at that point)

There are three separate instances on Mars.

The rapid succession makes it kind of tedious.

xsdob wrote...

So do we ignore shepard being brought back
from the dead when talking about her?

Nope. Shepard came back from the dead. What of it?

xsdob wrote...
And how she's the only one who
reacts semi-realistically to hearing this, with shock and
uncertainty?

I like the people who reacted with hugs better.

So if someone dropped off the grid for 2 or 3 years, didn't show up at all or contact you, and than suddenly while your on a mission that goes bad that nobody is supposed to know about, shows up out of nowhere saying they died and were ressurected by a terrorist orginization he fought against and is now helping, that you wouldn't be suspicious at all?

It's not like shepard does anything to try and ease her concerns over it with his "cerberus aren't bad guys" lines, even his I'm not working for cerberus lines come off as hollow lies because, he is working for them, and he's just admitted to it as soon as he finished greeting you.

You're ignoring the dead Collectors around Ashley. Why does everyone always ignore the dead Collectors?

But seriously, I'd like to find the script The Illusive Man used when convincing your former crew. Because apparently being reasonable and calmly explaining the facts doesn't work.

[Iakus]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

You're ignoring the dead Collectors around Ashley. Why does everyone always ignore the dead Collectors?

Ash confirms Collector involvement to the Council.

But seriously, I'd like to find the script The Illusive Man used when convincing your former crew. Because apparently being reasonable and calmly explaining the facts doesn't work.

Apparantly a bottle of '47 Thessia Red was involved as well  

[xsdob]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

xsdob wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Can you guys refresh my memory a bit. You say you have confronted her four times about Cerberus ties, yet I only remember Mars mission and the resolution at the hospital scene. That makes it one, two if you count Horizon (which I don't because you are obviously forking with Cerberus at that point)

There are three separate instances on Mars.

The rapid succession makes it kind of tedious.

xsdob wrote...

So do we ignore shepard being brought back
from the dead when talking about her?

Nope. Shepard came back from the dead. What of it?

xsdob wrote...
And how she's the only one who
reacts semi-realistically to hearing this, with shock and
uncertainty?

I like the people who reacted with hugs better.

So if someone dropped off the grid for 2 or 3 years, didn't show up at all or contact you, and than suddenly while your on a mission that goes bad that nobody is supposed to know about, shows up out of nowhere saying they died and were ressurected by a terrorist orginization he fought against and is now helping, that you wouldn't be suspicious at all?

It's not like shepard does anything to try and ease her concerns over it with his "cerberus aren't bad guys" lines, even his I'm not working for cerberus lines come off as hollow lies because, he is working for them, and he's just admitted to it as soon as he finished greeting you.

You're ignoring the dead Collectors around Ashley. Why does everyone always ignore the dead Collectors?

But seriously, I'd like to find the script The Illusive Man used when convincing your former crew. Because apparently being reasonable and calmly explaining the facts doesn't work.

What calmly explaining facts. "I was dead but I got better." "I'm working for cerberus now." and "cerberus is working for me." aren't convincing lines. Hell, you spend more times convincing jack, the only other reasonable one whose suspicious about cerberus, than you do garrus, who should be a little cautious about this since he was also lead into a trap by someone he considered a friend not more than a few hours ago.

It just seems that shepards way with words is too mary sueish for me to actually take seriously, espically since he never explains to anyone the exact details of what happened. Not once does he say he woke up on a station that was under attack, and the cerberus personal there helped him. Never, all he says is "I'm with cerberus now. So help me stop the collectors."

And like you said, he killed the collectors around ashley, so there's no reason he couldn't have gone into more details about what cerberus had done for him, or why he was working for them outside the collectors. Instead he just sort of half-assley gives up trying to explain to her what is very shocking news that is not very belivable.

One of the good things in ME3 is at least shepard starts to think of the implications of cerberus bringing him back from the dead, instead of ME2's "Meh, whatevs. I died and stuff, nothing new here." attitude about the whole thing.

[KangDo]

I think it's reasonable to be mistrustful of someone who you believed died in an explosion (that you didn't witness) and shows up two years later claiming that they died, were resurrected and is now working for a terrorist organization.

If anything, what confuses me is Shepards that decide to keep her around or even fall in love with her. Maybe I don't understand human nature or love but it seems pretty odd for Shepard to be all over that and doing whatever it takes to get her back on Normandy, a person that refused to assist him in ME2, constantly questioning him when she gets the first chance and needs to be constantly visited in the hospital just so she won't try to shoot him when given the chance.

Compare this to a load of squadmates that follow Shepard wherever he/she goes regardless of whatever sketchy activities they partake in. That would mean Shepard has more interest in Ashley than a squadmate that risked her life and worked with the shadiest people just for a slight bit of hope that Shepard could somehow be resurrected from the dead (Liara) or a squadmate that followed Shepard wherever he went and had been with him and supported him longer than anyone else (Tali).

To note though, despite my concerns about Ashley, I actually like Ashley. I brought her on missions quite a bit in both ME1 and ME3 because a lot of her ME1 comments mid-mission amused me and lore wise, I'd rather bring a battle hardened soldier into a combat scenario than someone like Tali or Liara unless the mission directly required somebody with their abilities. You could argue that this is why some Shepards would go for Ashley but that would have to be something directly player related and not something derived from the actual plot.

[SeptimusMagistos]

xsdob wrote...

What calmly explaining facts. "I was dead but I got better." "I'm working for cerberus now." and "cerberus is working for me." aren't convincing lines.

The barebones dialogue consists of Shepard explaining that the reason he didn't contact the Virmire Survivor was because he was clinically dead while Cerberus rebuilt him, explaining that the Collectors rather than Cerberus are behind the attacks, clarifying that he's not a traitor, and finally growing exasperated with the fact that in the time it took Shepard to explain this the Virmire Survivor manages to question his judgment, his loyalty, and his very identity.

xsdob wrote...
Hell, you spend more times convincing jack, the only other reasonable one whose suspicious about cerberus, than you do garrus, who should be a little cautious about this since he was also lead into a trap by someone he considered a friend not more than a few hours ago.

That's because Garrus is paying attention to the dead mercenaries right in front of him.

xsdob wrote...
It just seems that shepards way with words is too mary sueish for me to actually take seriously, espically since he never explains to anyone the exact details of what happened. Not once does he say he woke up on a station that was under attack, and the cerberus personal there helped him. Never, all he says is "I'm with cerberus now. So help me stop the collectors."

That seems like a reasonable position to take. The Collectors are a threat, so Shepard is teaming up with Cerberus to stop them. What else does anyone need to know?

xsdob wrote...
And like you said, he killed the collectors around ashley, so there's no reason he couldn't have gone into more details about what cerberus had done for him, or why he was working for them outside the collectors. Instead he just sort of half-assley gives up trying to explain to her what is very shocking news that is not very belivable.

She's kind hysterical around this point. Shepard doesn't have to take this from her.

xsdob wrote...
One of the good things in ME3 is at least shepard starts to think of the implications of cerberus bringing him back from the dead, instead of ME2's "Meh, whatevs. I died and stuff, nothing new here." attitude about the whole thing.

My Shepards keep up with the whatevers. The only difference between a corpse and a patient is the state of medical technology, right?

[Stakrin]

I like Ashley, more than most girls in other video games in fact, and I see how she justified that, but even so it was definitely a low point for them. To be fair, aliens were almost just discovered, and her grandfather's name was ruined based on a bad call made during war with aliens.

[Iakus]

xsdob wrote...

What calmly explaining facts. "I was dead but I got better." "I'm working for cerberus now." and "cerberus is working for me." aren't convincing lines. Hell, you spend more times convincing jack, the only other reasonable one whose suspicious about cerberus, than you do garrus, who should be a little cautious about this since he was also lead into a trap by someone he considered a friend not more than a few hours ago.

It just seems that shepards way with words is too mary sueish for me to actually take seriously, espically since he never explains to anyone the exact details of what happened. Not once does he say he woke up on a station that was under attack, and the cerberus personal there helped him. Never, all he says is "I'm with cerberus now. So help me stop the collectors."

And like you said, he killed the collectors around ashley, so there's no reason he couldn't have gone into more details about what cerberus had done for him, or why he was working for them outside the collectors. Instead he just sort of half-assley gives up trying to explain to her what is very shocking news that is not very belivable.

One of the good things in ME3 is at least shepard starts to think of the implications of cerberus bringing him back from the dead, instead of ME2's "Meh, whatevs. I died and stuff, nothing new here." attitude about the whole thing.

Shepard:  Ashley!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the Collectors the ones kidnapping the colonists!  Cerberus is trying to stop them!  Find Tali, she can...

Bioware:  Assuming direct control

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see. Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times

Yeah i'll take Mars over Horizon any time. 

Modifié par iakus, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:10 .

[Clone 071]

iakus wrote...

xsdob wrote...

What calmly explaining facts. "I was dead but I got better." "I'm working for cerberus now." and "cerberus is working for me." aren't convincing lines. Hell, you spend more times convincing jack, the only other reasonable one whose suspicious about cerberus, than you do garrus, who should be a little cautious about this since he was also lead into a trap by someone he considered a friend not more than a few hours ago.

It just seems that shepards way with words is too mary sueish for me to actually take seriously, espically since he never explains to anyone the exact details of what happened. Not once does he say he woke up on a station that was under attack, and the cerberus personal there helped him. Never, all he says is "I'm with cerberus now. So help me stop the collectors."

And like you said, he killed the collectors around ashley, so there's no reason he couldn't have gone into more details about what cerberus had done for him, or why he was working for them outside the collectors. Instead he just sort of half-assley gives up trying to explain to her what is very shocking news that is not very belivable.

One of the good things in ME3 is at least shepard starts to think of the implications of cerberus bringing him back from the dead, instead of ME2's "Meh, whatevs. I died and stuff, nothing new here." attitude about the whole thing.

Shepard:  Ashley!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, the Collectors the ones kidnapping the colonists!  Cerberus is trying to stop them!  Find Tali, she can...

Bioware:  Assuming direct control

Shepard:  Hey Ash, long time no see. Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times

Yeah i'll take Mars over Horizon any time. 

Right with you there.

[KangDo]

xsdob wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

xsdob wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Can you guys refresh my memory a bit. You say you have confronted her four times about Cerberus ties, yet I only remember Mars mission and the resolution at the hospital scene. That makes it one, two if you count Horizon (which I don't because you are obviously forking with Cerberus at that point)

There are three separate instances on Mars.

The rapid succession makes it kind of tedious.

xsdob wrote...

So do we ignore shepard being brought back
from the dead when talking about her?

Nope. Shepard came back from the dead. What of it?

xsdob wrote...
And how she's the only one who
reacts semi-realistically to hearing this, with shock and
uncertainty?

I like the people who reacted with hugs better.

So if someone dropped off the grid for 2 or 3 years, didn't show up at all or contact you, and than suddenly while your on a mission that goes bad that nobody is supposed to know about, shows up out of nowhere saying they died and were ressurected by a terrorist orginization he fought against and is now helping, that you wouldn't be suspicious at all?

It's not like shepard does anything to try and ease her concerns over it with his "cerberus aren't bad guys" lines, even his I'm not working for cerberus lines come off as hollow lies because, he is working for them, and he's just admitted to it as soon as he finished greeting you.

You're ignoring the dead Collectors around Ashley. Why does everyone always ignore the dead Collectors?

But seriously, I'd like to find the script The Illusive Man used when convincing your former crew. Because apparently being reasonable and calmly explaining the facts doesn't work.

What calmly explaining facts. "I was dead but I got better." "I'm working for cerberus now." and "cerberus is working for me." aren't convincing lines. Hell, you spend more times convincing jack, the only other reasonable one whose suspicious about cerberus, than you do garrus, who should be a little cautious about this since he was also lead into a trap by someone he considered a friend not more than a few hours ago.

It just seems that shepards way with words is too mary sueish for me to actually take seriously, espically since he never explains to anyone the exact details of what happened. Not once does he say he woke up on a station that was under attack, and the cerberus personal there helped him. Never, all he says is "I'm with cerberus now. So help me stop the collectors."

And like you said, he killed the collectors around ashley, so there's no reason he couldn't have gone into more details about what cerberus had done for him, or why he was working for them outside the collectors. Instead he just sort of half-assley gives up trying to explain to her what is very shocking news that is not very belivable.

One of the good things in ME3 is at least shepard starts to think of the implications of cerberus bringing him back from the dead, instead of ME2's "Meh, whatevs. I died and stuff, nothing new here." attitude about the whole thing.

That reminds me of the discussion regarding that deleted conversation between Shepard and Ashley in ME3 regarding Shepard's death and if he felt anything during then.  I always felt like Shepard was a little too aloof about his/her own death and ressurection in ME2 and that conversation seemed to address that by saying it actually bugged the crap out of him but he was just so focused on the mission during ME2's events that he never had any time to stop and think about things like that.  And I guess you could try arguing that it affected his conversation with the VS on Horizon in that he didn't realize at the time how widely different some of his friends would react to the news.

[Argolas]

Ashley is pro-human, not racist. She does not have anything against Aliens, she only cares about humanity first because that is her duty as an Alliance soldier. I don't agree with her POV, but it can be justified.

She is pretty much what Cerberus SHOULD be like.

[KangDo]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

xsdob wrote...

What calmly explaining facts. "I was dead but I got better." "I'm working for cerberus now." and "cerberus is working for me." aren't convincing lines.

The barebones dialogue consists of Shepard explaining that the reason he didn't contact the Virmire Survivor was because he was clinically dead while Cerberus rebuilt him, explaining that the Collectors rather than Cerberus are behind the attacks, clarifying that he's not a traitor, and finally growing exasperated with the fact that in the time it took Shepard to explain this the Virmire Survivor manages to question his judgment, his loyalty, and his very identity.

He actually doesn't say "I was dead" in the conversations or at least, I couldn't find it.  He just tells the VS that he was in a coma.  Why he felt the need to withhold this information, I don't know and always bugged me about that conversation.  I always asked myself where the "I was DEAD you jackass!" option was in the dialog wheel.

Edit: Apparently Shepard does say this at least if it's Femshep talking to Kaidan.  Not sure if it happens to Ashley though.  Either way, a lot of inconsistency there.

Modifié par KangDo, 06 décembre 2012 - 06:46 .

[_aLucidMind_]

Stakrin wrote...

I like Ashley, more than most girls in other video games in fact, and I see how she justified that, but even so it was definitely a low point for them. To be fair, aliens were almost just discovered, and her grandfather's name was ruined based on a bad call made during war with aliens.

Not to mention that she states she has always been around humans and has almost, if not never worked with non-humans before; one can even extrapolate she has never really been around aliens for enough time to get used to any non-humans. Would anyone here see a random creature they've never met that looks like an elephant or giant insect go "that's an Elcor" or "that's a Rachni/Keeper" rather than "what kind of animal is that? Looks like an elephant/giant bug" had they never seen or heard of it before? I seriously think anyone thinking they would automatically assume it is an alien rather than a native animal species is lying to themselves.

[Dean_the_Young]

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

Stakrin wrote...

I like Ashley, more than most girls in other video games in fact, and I see how she justified that, but even so it was definitely a low point for them. To be fair, aliens were almost just discovered, and her grandfather's name was ruined based on a bad call made during war with aliens.

Not to mention that she states she has always been around humans and has almost, if not never worked with non-humans before; one can even extrapolate she has never really been around aliens for enough time to get used to any non-humans. Would anyone here see a random creature they've never met that looks like an elephant or giant insect go "that's an Elcor" or "that's a Rachni/Keeper" rather than "what kind of animal is that? Looks like an elephant/giant bug" had they never seen or heard of it before? I seriously think anyone thinking they would automatically assume it is an alien rather than a native animal species is lying to themselves.

There's also the profound implications of alien pets. Not all aliens (non-Earth) are going to be Aliens (sentient). Granted, no one keeps a pet pyjack, and there's a distinct absence of cats and dogs...

...but really, given the scope the ME universe is supposed to have, confusing the Aliens for the animals is a pretty valid concern. How would you know from sight alone?


The best missed opportunity would have been an Asari meeting a dog for the first time. 'Man's best friend' indeed.

[AshenSugar]

Look around where she said that.  There's a Keeper nearby.  She's supposed to be referring to that, being uncertain if it's sentient (an alien) or not (an animal)  Due to a bug, the area that triggers her saying that is too large, thus it's not obvious that she's referring to them.

And of course, people just assume she's talking about all aliens

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this, and it never occured to me she was talking about the Keeper.

I remember when first hearing that particular line , I couldn't help feeling a strong dislike for Ashley, it left a very nasty taste in my mouth. I think I might have even killed her off later, and saved Kaidan as a result of that one comment.

I guess that placing it into the context of the Keeper softens it somewhat, as does an understanding of the issues that created her xenophobic mindset. She'll never be my favourite character though.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 06 décembre 2012 - 11:48 .

[Clayless]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Well first off, it's bugged. she's only supposed to say that around a keeper.

Source?

Bioware.

That's not a source.

[TheProtheans]

munnellyladt wrote...

How can you like her???
She's just too unlikeable!!!

Some people like girls with an attitude and rage.
Makes for interesting stuff.