209 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Well first off, it's bugged. she's only supposed to say that around a keeper.

Source?

Bioware.

That's not a source.

We're talking about a bug that was addressed by Bioware 5 years ago when ME1 was out. People would have to do some serious digging to find that quote from them.

[Clone 071]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Well first off, it's bugged. she's only supposed to say that around a keeper.

Source?

Bioware.

That's not a source.

We're talking about a bug that was addressed by Bioware 5 years ago when ME1 was out. People would have to do some serious digging to find that quote from them.

True that. I spent an hour yesterday searching the internet for a BioWare statement on that, and I turned up empty unfortunately.

[Iakus]

AshenSugar wrote...

Look around where she said that.  There's a Keeper nearby.  She's supposed to be referring to that, being uncertain if it's sentient (an alien) or not (an animal)  Due to a bug, the area that triggers her saying that is too large, thus it's not obvious that she's referring to them.

And of course, people just assume she's talking about all aliens

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this, and it never occured to me she was talking about the Keeper.

I remember when first hearing that particular line , I couldn't help feeling a strong dislike for Ashley, it left a very nasty taste in my mouth. I think I might have even killed her off later, and saved Kaidan as a result of that one comment.

I guess that placing it into the context of the Keeper softens it somewhat, as does an understanding of the issues that created her xenophobic mindset. She'll never be my favourite character though.

She doesn't have to be.  But context and understanding are important in knowing a character.

And knowing is half the battle 

Modifié par iakus, 06 décembre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Sajuro]

inversevideo wrote...

Edolix wrote...

Been playing ME1 for the first time today and just heard Ashley say the above quote. I almost choked on the water I was drinking. I've often seen people on BSN complaining about Ashley's "racism" which I haven't experienced from first-hand until now, but my goodness. That was unexpected...and a little surprising.

This is not a hate thread, btw. I like Ash =) Aside from the above comment that almost made me ****** myself, i've enjoyed listening to what she has to say and am looking forward to exploring her character arc further. Unlike Kaidan, whose rather uninsightful comments haven't ceased to amuse me yet, lol.

Ash is not being racist, that is not a racist comment.  
Ash is only saying what we (the audience) is thinking.

I met a Hanar, on the Citadel, and really, without experience,  when you meet a Hanar, or see a 'gasbag' how would you know which is animal and which is sentient without any experience?

Ash tells you that she has no experience with aliens. Ash has been grounded and restricted to colony duty b/c her granfather commanded and shanxi, and surrendered to the turians.  She has the technical scores to be assigned to a ship, but hatred, of her family name runs high.  So Ash has very little knowledge of Alien species.

And in that scene, where she confides her uncertainty to you, about what is what, she is loking to you, her commander, for guidance and reassurance.  

It is a touching scene. ME1 Ash is one of the most fleshed out and human characters in the series.

But did she really need to say it out loud in the middle of the effing citadel? I still think the real reason she wasn't promoted was because she wore pink armor and apparently lacked tact

[SinerAthin]

I loathe nothing more than 100% politically correct mary sues

[Iakus]

Sajuro wrote...
But did she really need to say it out loud in the middle of the effing citadel? I still think the real reason she wasn't promoted was because she wore pink armor and apparently lacked tact

It's a bug, so to speak   She's supposed to be closer to the Keepers when seh says that.

Although she does have an admitted tendancy to shoot her mouth off..

[MissOuJ]

Nightwriter wrote...

Actually I was a bit critical of Ashley's opinions in ME1 because they came from a place of inexperience and prioritized race and nationality over character and individual merit. At first I thought she might just distrust Wrex and Garrus because one was a merc and one was former C-Sec. That would have been understandable. But you ask her whether it's simply because they're nonhumans and she goes into a story about how her family was basically ruined by a confrontation with nonhumans, and she also admits that is pretty much the extent of her knowledge of aliens.

I did not think Ashley's opinions about political caution were wrong. In fact, her cynicism was proven completely justified in ME3 when the Council says that the siege of Earth is buying them time to prepare. My objections were more a matter of her making racial assumptions about members of my crew and making judgments from an imbalanced or uninformed perspective.

Absolutely spot on. I like Ashley's character in general: the toughness, the cynicims, even the spiritualism and her love for poetry. And she does have understandable reasons for having the opinnions she does, just as you said. That doesn't make her statements any less problematic - or xenophobic.

[gosimmons]

ME1 Ash is still my favorite Ash.

[DirtySHISN0]

I was going to step in and say "wait, its skepticism not xenophobia"

Then I remembered Ashley holds religious beliefs and couldn't logically answer why she would be skeptical for one, then not the other.

Then came a thought, emotion - I think she proves she is overly emotional.

[Sejborg]

iakus wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
But did she really need to say it out loud in the middle of the effing citadel? I still think the real reason she wasn't promoted was because she wore pink armor and apparently lacked tact

It's a bug, so to speak   She's supposed to be closer to the Keepers when seh says that.

Although she does have an admitted tendancy to shoot her mouth off..

But how is that any different? Might as well go to the zoo and say the exact same line. How is it different if she says it near a keeper? She still thinks the aliens look likes animals, or the animals look like aliens. 

[Iakus]

Sejborg wrote...

iakus wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
But did she really need to say it out loud in the middle of the effing citadel? I still think the real reason she wasn't promoted was because she wore pink armor and apparently lacked tact

It's a bug, so to speak   She's supposed to be closer to the Keepers when seh says that.

Although she does have an admitted tendancy to shoot her mouth off..

But how is that any different? Might as well go to the zoo and say the exact same line. How is it different if she says it near a keeper? She still thinks the aliens look likes animals, or the animals look like aliens. 

Because no one knows if the Keepers are sentient or not.  She can't tell if the Keepers are "aliens" or "animals"

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Lol, I love that line.

[Sajuro]

iakus wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
But did she really need to say it out loud in the middle of the effing citadel? I still think the real reason she wasn't promoted was because she wore pink armor and apparently lacked tact

It's a bug, so to speak   She's supposed to be closer to the Keepers when seh says that.

Although she does have an admitted tendancy to shoot her mouth off..

That doesn't stop the fact that aliens who could hear and understand her were there when she decided to make the off hand comment in her normal voice, not even specifying that she was talking about the Keepers.

[Sejborg]

iakus wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

iakus wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
But did she really need to say it out loud in the middle of the effing citadel? I still think the real reason she wasn't promoted was because she wore pink armor and apparently lacked tact

It's a bug, so to speak   She's supposed to be closer to the Keepers when seh says that.

Although she does have an admitted tendancy to shoot her mouth off..

But how is that any different? Might as well go to the zoo and say the exact same line. How is it different if she says it near a keeper? She still thinks the aliens look likes animals, or the animals look like aliens. 

Because no one knows if the Keepers are sentient or not.  She can't tell if the Keepers are "aliens" or "animals"

Ah of course. Makes sense that way.

[Demonique]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

It all makes me wish BW had made Ashley black. Not done anything differently except give her black skin. I'm pretty sure that would have made people actually think about what she actually said without prejudging her.

Someone at London Expo said they should have used Kimberley Brooks as Ashley's face model

[Oni Changas]

LMAO @ this thread.

Ashley and Pressley had identical beliefs but then in ME2 we find Pressley started out as a bit of a bigot. Yet Ash gets misinterpreted HARD.

[Excella Gionne]

That dialogue of Ashley's made me angry. I wanted the renegade action/interrupt to appear, but sadly it was Mass Effect, not 2.

[conjmk]

Edolix wrote...
 Unlike Kaidan, whose rather uninsightful comments haven't ceased to amuse me yet, lol.

Sooo, Kaidan's boring because he doesn't make bigoted remarks?

Gotcha.

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

The most realistic part of her racism is that she doesn't want to own up to it. Like 90% of real racists. At the same time, it makes her complicated. She espouses just about every line Terra Firma would say, but doesn't support Terra Firma. She'd fit right in with Cerberus goals, but then hates their guts. She says racist things, but then goes "It's not racism.. not really."

Ever take her to the Terra Firma rally in ME1?

Yeah, she rips the guy a new one, she doesn't agree with them at all

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

iakus wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

The most realistic part of her racism is that she doesn't want to own up to it. Like 90% of real racists. At the same time, it makes her complicated. She espouses just about every line Terra Firma would say, but doesn't support Terra Firma. She'd fit right in with Cerberus goals, but then hates their guts. She says racist things, but then goes "It's not racism.. not really."

Ever take her to the Terra Firma rally in ME1?

Yeah, she rips the guy a new one, she doesn't agree with them at all

Denial.

"I'm racist but I won't admit it"

[Bebuse]

StreetMagic wrote...

The most realistic part of her racism is that she doesn't want to own up to it. Like 90% of real racists. At the same time, it makes her complicated. She espouses just about every line Terra Firma would say, but doesn't support Terra Firma. She'd fit right in with Cerberus goals, but then hates their guts. She says racist things, but then goes "It's not racism.. not really."

She has redeemable qualities though, and I think she offers needed drama that Kaidan doesn't (Kaidan is just kind of "there").

The lines preceding the "it's not racism... not really"...  in the end she was exactly right in predicting what would happen. The Reapers were destroying Earth, then all the aliens turned around and said "sic 'em" while they tried to prepare themselves. One point for Ashley.

Lots of people seem to misunderstand what racism is, because the word is these days overused, usually to shut down discussions. Ashley harbours a reasonable mistrust of aliens (that Shepard can help her change her mind about), and isn't exactly tactful in her words. She is not a racist.

Modifié par Bebuse, 25 juillet 2013 - 02:58 .