395 réponses à ce sujet

[mechalynx]

Nah, everyone in ME universe is ridiculously pretty, even a freaking Yagh.

I am, however, a bit miffed that ManShep got a cool leather jacket and FemShep got a dress that makes her look like she's trying too hard. That girl cannot pull off waering a dress, the way she walks.

I'd take the jacket over that skanky latex rag any day.

[RadicalDisconnect]

You want to know how females in the military look?





Not a whole lot different from males actually. Take that as you will...

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 07 décembre 2012 - 05:00 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Lathrim wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Oh and in regards to Thane's 'boobage' here is the part in the Shadow Broker Dossiers "...Thane should continue to wear loose clothing that leaves his chest uncovered to prevent moisture buildup that could worsen the problem. "
He, at least, has an excuse.

That's some shallow justification for why he wears the clothes he does. I don't care though.

But he has an ingame excuse though...True, I don't approve of it while in space, but an assassin wearing bulky clothes wouldn't sense. You can't say he's as bad as Samara as some people are trying to fob off.

Doesn't need to be bulky. Just gotta cover his chest.

Samara is worse than any and every case being discussed here. Except EDI's cameltoe.

Agreed.

Never unsee

[XCelfa]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

You want to know how females in the military look?





Not a whole lot different from males actually. Take that as you will...

And treated no differently Hooah.

[KiwiQuiche]

mechalynx wrote...

Nah, everyone in ME universe is ridiculously pretty, even a freaking Yagh.

I am, however, a bit miffed that ManShep got a cool leather jacket and FemShep got a dress that makes her look like she's trying too hard. That girl cannot pull off waering a dress, the way she walks.

I'd take the jacket over that skanky latex rag any day.

Man I was very unhappy with that stupid dress; I so wanted that leather jacket. Ah well, have to make do with the hoodie. At least that didn't turn into a rekinned dress.

[RadicalDisconnect]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Oh and in regards to Thane's 'boobage' here is the part in the Shadow Broker Dossiers "...Thane should continue to wear loose clothing that leaves his chest uncovered to prevent moisture buildup that could worsen the problem. "
He, at least, has an excuse.

That's some shallow justification for why he wears the clothes he does. I don't care though.

But he has an ingame excuse though...True, I don't approve of it while in space, but an assassin wearing bulky clothes wouldn't sense. You can't say he's as bad as Samara as some people are trying to fob off.

Doesn't need to be bulky. Just gotta cover his chest.

Samara is worse than any and every case being discussed here. Except EDI's cameltoe.

Agreed.

Never unsee

It's hard to imagine that over 150 years in the future, they can't develop clothing material that can absorb and disperse moisture. Thane's excuse is tissue paper thin.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 07 décembre 2012 - 05:13 .

[Wintermist]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

So, tell me, what exactly does a developer need to do to avoid being so horribly sexist? How are they supposed to 'portray' characters to avoid accusations of this sort of thing?

Sheesh!...You REALLY need to learn to read....this thread alone answers this very question repeatedly....Real Armor,  no heels, stick to original boob size, hair tied back in battle, a little more choice than almost lesbian only femShep, NO MORE *SS SHOTS!

Does that just about cover it?

Yup, exactly this. Take a look at what gear a soldier wear today, we don't wear a combat armour like in the game, but we do have a bulletresistant vest. another vest with bags for equipment and tools and ammo.

Men and women wear the same because thy're both in need of the same protection and mobility. High heels and leather dresses don't cut it.

[KiwiQuiche]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lathrim wrote...


Doesn't need to be bulky. Just gotta cover his chest.

Samara is worse than any and every case being discussed here. Except EDI's cameltoe.

Agreed.

Never unsee

It's hard to imagine that over 150 years in the future, they can't develop clothing material that can absorb and disperse moisture. Thane's excuse is tissue paper thin.

They also couldn't make a self-feeding fish tank until the Reapers invaded, but what are you gonna do

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 07 décembre 2012 - 05:15 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lathrim wrote...


Doesn't need to be bulky. Just gotta cover his chest.

Samara is worse than any and every case being discussed here. Except EDI's cameltoe.

Agreed.

Never unsee

It's hard to imagine that over 150 years in the future, they can't develop clothing material that can absorb and disperse moisture. Thane's excuse is tissue paper thin.

They also couldn't make a self-feeding fish tank until the Reapers invaded, but what are you gonna do

Point, Thane is no better than Miranda or Samara when it comes to blatantly appealing to audience of the opposite gender.

[mechalynx]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

They also couldn't make a self-feeding fish tank until the Reapers invaded, but what are you gonna do

LOL.. I actually head-canoned it that during her incarceration, one of my FemSheps (engineer) designed and patented an automatic fish feeder, after being traumatised repeatedly.

The other Sheps had Mordin do it.

[KiwiQuiche]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lathrim wrote...


Doesn't need to be bulky. Just gotta cover his chest.

Samara is worse than any and every case being discussed here. Except EDI's cameltoe.

Agreed.

Never unsee

It's hard to imagine that over 150 years in the future, they can't develop clothing material that can absorb and disperse moisture. Thane's excuse is tissue paper thin.

They also couldn't make a self-feeding fish tank until the Reapers invaded, but what are you gonna do

Point, Thane is no better than Miranda or Samara when it comes to blatantly appealing to audience of the opposite gender.

But he's an alien; not a lot of people find that sexually appealing. Miranda is enginered to be perfect (creepy dad) and the asari are a bunch of blue space lesbians. Personally I never thought Thane was attractive- he's a scaly lizard fish man thing (not to mention his creepy eyes)

But maybe that's just me. Also I found his personality kinda boring...

[Stakrin]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

GreatBlueHeron wrote...


I'm a gay woman, so I find the romance options welcome.  Gay and bisexual people rarely get recognized in video gaming.  That said, Bioware didn't do this for gay and bisexual women...they did it for their straight white male base.  As a result, straight women aren't getting as many romance options, PLUS all women portrayed in this game are highly sexualized (except for krogen, but eve's treatment is a different can of worms).  
Even in a "progressive" game like this, women are still portrayed as sex objects.  I would like to see this change.  If gaming companies refuse to treat women as people first rather than objects first, then take away the dignity of the male characters.  Make em show more skin.  Equal objectification or no objectification.

This is a very good post....thank you Heron, I think you have pretty much covered it all.

Truth is the females are objectified in games....as I state earlier, I wasn't too fussed myself about the 'exposure' ....but it is still certainly very evident and unequal.

I can't help but disagree...to start it all, I don't see how doing what you consider sexualizing women means it if for straight white males.

And I wouldn't say all girls are over-sexualized, at least not too much more than the men.
Liara's breasts got bigger over a couple of years, but she still covers them. Tali's hips got a bit unrealistic, and Ashley let her hair down There is Miranda, I will  give you that one.

But they tried to make the guys more attractive as well. Kaidan's model changed....I didn't notice it much though. There is Vega for girls (or gay men) who are into that kind of thing, Thane's sexy-fish chest. Garrus' voice and innuendos. 

Though my opinion could be bias, as I just played a jrpg (full of slim guys with spiky hair and every girl 18+ with huge boobs, curvy, and just generally over the top appearance.)

[aMytallica]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Lathrim wrote...


Doesn't need to be bulky. Just gotta cover his chest.

Samara is worse than any and every case being discussed here. Except EDI's cameltoe.

Agreed.

Never unsee

It's hard to imagine that over 150 years in the future, they can't develop clothing material that can absorb and disperse moisture. Thane's excuse is tissue paper thin.

They also couldn't make a self-feeding fish tank until the Reapers invaded, but what are you gonna do

Point, Thane is no better than Miranda or Samara when it comes to blatantly appealing to audience of the opposite gender.

But he's an alien; not a lot of people find that sexually appealing. Miranda is enginered to be perfect (creepy dad) and the asari are a bunch of blue space lesbians. Personally I never thought Thane was attractive- he's a scaly lizard fish man thing (not to mention his creepy eyes)

But maybe that's just me. Also I found his personality kinda boring...

I'm sure Thane's fans would disagree. Whether you personally found him attractive or not, does not change the fact that he was designed for that purpose. It seems odd to be offended by the idea of the female crew being designed to be appealing, but not the male crew.

[KiwiQuiche]

aMytallica wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...


Point, Thane is no better than Miranda or Samara when it comes to blatantly appealing to audience of the opposite gender.

But he's an alien; not a lot of people find that sexually appealing. Miranda is enginered to be perfect (creepy dad) and the asari are a bunch of blue space lesbians. Personally I never thought Thane was attractive- he's a scaly lizard fish man thing (not to mention his creepy eyes)

But maybe that's just me. Also I found his personality kinda boring...

I'm sure Thane's fans would disagree. Whether you personally found him attractive or not, does not change the fact that he was designed for that purpose. It seems odd to be offended by the idea of the female crew being designed to be appealing, but not the male crew.

So you're saying Thane is as sexualized as Miranda, Samara and Ashley? Really?

[aMytallica]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

aMytallica wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...


Point, Thane is no better than Miranda or Samara when it comes to blatantly appealing to audience of the opposite gender.

But he's an alien; not a lot of people find that sexually appealing. Miranda is enginered to be perfect (creepy dad) and the asari are a bunch of blue space lesbians. Personally I never thought Thane was attractive- he's a scaly lizard fish man thing (not to mention his creepy eyes)

But maybe that's just me. Also I found his personality kinda boring...

I'm sure Thane's fans would disagree. Whether you personally found him attractive or not, does not change the fact that he was designed for that purpose. It seems odd to be offended by the idea of the female crew being designed to be appealing, but not the male crew.

So you're saying Thane is as sexualized as Miranda, Samara and Ashley? Really?

Really. As was Jacob, Kaidan, James. All there to appeal to their respective audience. There's nothing wrong with that.

Modifié par aMytallica, 07 décembre 2012 - 05:52 .

[Nuclear Pete]

I think it's pretty simple. Thane, Kaiden, Jacob, James are their to appeal to a certain audience... female. Just like Miranda, Ashley, Tali, Liara was made to appeal to an the male audience.

Comparing ME to real life or other works of fiction is pointless and irrelevant. Both sexes in ME are idealised. And it's fair.

[KiwiQuiche]

aMytallica wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

aMytallica wrote...


I'm sure Thane's fans would disagree. Whether you personally found him attractive or not, does not change the fact that he was designed for that purpose. It seems odd to be offended by the idea of the female crew being designed to be appealing, but not the male crew.

So you're saying Thane is as sexualized as Miranda, Samara and Ashley? Really?

Really.

Hmmm, I don't think they're on equal footing in terms of skin-tight, chest exposed, whole appearence mangled for sex appeal footing but that's me.

[Loreshield]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

If a CEO shows up to a meeting in a bikini, no one is going to take them seriously. If a maid shows to clean a house in the stereotypical 'French maid' outfit, it is far more likely that people are going to assume that they are a prostitute rather than a cleaner. If a soldier shows up in full makeup, high heels, and armor that shows off more than it protects; they're not going to last very long on the battlefield. ME1 Ashley Williams and Femshep are both soldiers (occupation, NOT class), and the clothing they wore looked it. ME3 Femshep looked...less so. ME3 Ashley looked like someone in a Halloween s*xy-soldier costume. Looks are not the end-all be-all of a character, but they do help support who this person is and what they're like.

Here's the thing, though. We're not talking about real life occurences such as you described. It's a video. Game. I just don't see the point in making such a big flipping deal over it.

Then again, this is coming from someone who actively engaged in this discussion, so... Mh. The joke's on me, I guess.

So yeah, I don't think this is even close to worth it. And at the end of the day, as I said before, you and I and everyone else are all entitled to our opinions, so... *Whooosh*

Two more things, though, before I go:

Dobbysaurus wrote...

True but it doesn't bother me in the least and it won't turn me away like it might other women. To me it's just a game to enjoy and not to take seriously. If someone else gets offended or turned away from a game because of over sexualization or anything else, then that's their choice and right to think that way. I just choose to enjoy the game for what it is.

Had to include this as it says what I mean more to the point, I think. And:

J. Reezy wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So nobody is going to point out James' 12-pack abs or his car sized arms? How about Jacob, who's chest is higher-rez than his face? Or Thane, who was literally made to be a love interest? What about Steve, Kaidan, and MShep, the latter of which is literally a male model.

Like earlier, is it somehow less sexist when it's the men who are objectified? Why do only 2 other people in this thread even acknowledge the point and the hypocrisy surrounding the sexualizatiom of the genders? Everyone seems to be crying foul over Miranda's heels and suit, but James' Michelangelo chest gets a free pass?

I guess that's just how the double standards of society work.

Never a bad thing to keep this in mind.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

o Ventus wrote...

So nobody is going to point out James' 12-pack abs or his car sized arms? How about Jacob, who's chest is higher-rez than his face? Or Thane, who was literally made to be a love interest? What about Steve, Kaidan, and MShep, the latter of which is literally a male model.

Like earlier, is it somehow less sexist when it's the men who are objectified? Why do only 2 other people in this thread even acknowledge the point and the hypocrisy surrounding the sexualizatiom of the genders? Everyone seems to be crying foul over Miranda's heels and suit, but James' Michelangelo chest gets a free pass?

Okay since you keep bringing it up.....

James has been scoring steroids. It's obvious. Do I complain about his wearing a tee shirt? No. Why? I see muscley guys in tight tee shirts every day, and he's usually working out like those guys are. I don't give them a second look anymore.

And Jacob's abs? I wish they'd put as much effort into his character.

I think the pro-wrestling trope is being used for character design for both sexes. The big muscle bound ******. Except James isn't dumb; he just doesn't know jack, and he's the first to tell you. But do you guys complain about the truck sized Marcus, Dom, Baird, and company in Gears of War? No.

And the reason it's not brought up is this: A guy goes out of the house like that no one says a word. A guy goes into the supermarket and gets a six pack of beer like that no one says a word.

A woman goes out of the house dressed like Miranda, Samara, or one of the others and what does she hear? w****.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 07 décembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[Nuclear Pete]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

aMytallica wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

aMytallica wrote...


I'm sure Thane's fans would disagree. Whether you personally found him attractive or not, does not change the fact that he was designed for that purpose. It seems odd to be offended by the idea of the female crew being designed to be appealing, but not the male crew.

So you're saying Thane is as sexualized as Miranda, Samara and Ashley? Really?

Really.

Hmmm, I don't think they're on equal footing in terms of skin-tight, chest exposed, whole appearence mangled for sex appeal footing but that's me.

Jacob's outfit looks pretty skin tight, not very practical for combat. 

I'm pretty sure he got his fair share of "butt shots" too.

yet, i hear nobody complain. Curious

[aMytallica]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So nobody is going to point out James' 12-pack abs or his car sized arms? How about Jacob, who's chest is higher-rez than his face? Or Thane, who was literally made to be a love interest? What about Steve, Kaidan, and MShep, the latter of which is literally a male model.

Like earlier, is it somehow less sexist when it's the men who are objectified? Why do only 2 other people in this thread even acknowledge the point and the hypocrisy surrounding the sexualizatiom of the genders? Everyone seems to be crying foul over Miranda's heels and suit, but James' Michelangelo chest gets a free pass?

Okay since you keep bringing it up.....

James has been scoring steroids. It's obvious. Do I complain about his wearing a tee shirt? No. Why? I see muscley guys in tight tee shirts every day, and he's usually working out like those guys are. I don't give them a second look anymore.

And Jacob's abs? I wish they'd put as much effort into his character.

I think the pro-wrestling trope is being used for character design for both sexes. The big muscle bound ******. Except James isn't dumb; he just doesn't know jack, and he's the first to tell you. But do you guys complain about the truck sized Marcus, Dom, Baird, and company in Gears of War? No.

And the reason it's not brought up is this: A guy goes out of the house like that no one says a word. A guy goes into the supermarket and gets a six pack of beer like that no one says a word.

A woman goes out of the house dressed like Miranda, Samara, or one of the others and what does she hear? w****.

And isn't that then the issue in this thread? The characters are all treated equally in ME, yet everyone in this thread in offended by how the women look... Isn't that sexist?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

aMytallica wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So nobody is going to point out James' 12-pack abs or his car sized arms? How about Jacob, who's chest is higher-rez than his face? Or Thane, who was literally made to be a love interest? What about Steve, Kaidan, and MShep, the latter of which is literally a male model.

Like earlier, is it somehow less sexist when it's the men who are objectified? Why do only 2 other people in this thread even acknowledge the point and the hypocrisy surrounding the sexualizatiom of the genders? Everyone seems to be crying foul over Miranda's heels and suit, but James' Michelangelo chest gets a free pass?

Okay since you keep bringing it up.....

James has been scoring steroids. It's obvious. Do I complain about his wearing a tee shirt? No. Why? I see muscley guys in tight tee shirts every day, and he's usually working out like those guys are. I don't give them a second look anymore.

And Jacob's abs? I wish they'd put as much effort into his character.

I think the pro-wrestling trope is being used for character design for both sexes. The big muscle bound ******. Except James isn't dumb; he just doesn't know jack, and he's the first to tell you. But do you guys complain about the truck sized Marcus, Dom, Baird, and company in Gears of War? No.

And the reason it's not brought up is this: A guy goes out of the house like that no one says a word. A guy goes into the supermarket and gets a six pack of beer like that no one says a word.

A woman goes out of the house dressed like Miranda, Samara, or one of the others and what does she hear? w****.

And isn't that then the issue in this thread? The characters are all treated equally in ME, yet everyone in this thread in offended by how the women look... Isn't that sexist?

And they're not treated equally. If women were being paid equally for their work and not 70 cents on the dollar for the same work as men, then there might be a little different take, but it's not that way out there. We still make 70 cents on the dollar as a man for the same job across the business world.

This is why this type of representation in a game like this isn't equal. There is still a double standard out there.

The characters may be treated in the game by other characters in the game, but they don't look the same and don't appear to be given equal treatment by the artists to us. The women have always been hyper sexualized in video games. We are quite sensitive to this. It needs to change. And that is what matters.

do we have to go the other extreme? hell no. Just be realistic about stuff.

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

So nobody is going to point out James' 12-pack abs or his car sized arms? How about Jacob, who's chest is higher-rez than his face? Or Thane, who was literally made to be a love interest? What about Steve, Kaidan, and MShep, the latter of which is literally a male model.

Like earlier, is it somehow less sexist when it's the men who are objectified? Why do only 2 other people in this thread even acknowledge the point and the hypocrisy surrounding the sexualizatiom of the genders? Everyone seems to be crying foul over Miranda's heels and suit, but James' Michelangelo chest gets a free pass?

Okay since you keep bringing it up.....

James has been scoring steroids. It's obvious. Do I complain about his wearing a tee shirt? No. Why? I see muscley guys in tight tee shirts every day, and he's usually working out like those guys are. I don't give them a second look anymore.

And Jacob's abs? I wish they'd put as much effort into his character.

I think the pro-wrestling trope is being used for character design for both sexes. The big muscle bound ******. Except James isn't dumb; he just doesn't know jack, and he's the first to tell you. But do you guys complain about the truck sized Marcus, Dom, Baird, and company in Gears of War? No.

And the reason it's not brought up is this: A guy goes out of the house like that no one says a word. A guy goes into the supermarket and gets a six pack of beer like that no one says a word.

A woman goes out of the house dressed like Miranda, Samara, or one of the others and what does she hear? w****.

From who? I've heard women say that sort of thing more often than men.

Modifié par KingZayd, 07 décembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Nuclear Pete wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

aMytallica wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

aMytallica wrote...


I'm sure Thane's fans would disagree. Whether you personally found him attractive or not, does not change the fact that he was designed for that purpose. It seems odd to be offended by the idea of the female crew being designed to be appealing, but not the male crew.

So you're saying Thane is as sexualized as Miranda, Samara and Ashley? Really?

Really.

Hmmm, I don't think they're on equal footing in terms of skin-tight, chest exposed, whole appearence mangled for sex appeal footing but that's me.

Jacob's outfit looks pretty skin tight, not very practical for combat. 

I'm pretty sure he got his fair share of "butt shots" too.

yet, i hear nobody complain. Curious

I never really spoke to Jacob, on account of the fact my Shepard turned into a tart whenever I tried; that being said, he needed armour as well. What class was he though?

[dversion]

Speaking as a dude, I found the sexualization of the female characters to be eye-rollingly awful and disrespectful.