395 réponses à ce sujet

[Kel Riever]

This thread reveals more about the hangups of individual posters than it does about Mass Effect.

I'm not naming names but some of these are pretty obvious, 'Look in the mirror for the answers to your problems,' kinds of posts.

[Merchant2006]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

id say make em sexier.

i love getting boners.

[N7KnightSabre]

I didn't have any problem with the dress for femshep in Kasumi's mission. I thought it was simple, elegant, and sexy without being ****-ish. I don't understand why femShep wearing a dress is a bad thing. Maybe some sheps wouldn't wear the dress but, for me, Shepard is a soldier but also a woman and it's not a crime to want to be feminine from time to time. And if they actually wanted to make a dress for her that appealed to horny boys that dress wouldn't have ended at the knees. A whole lot less material would have been used over the whole design.

The dress in ME3 wasn't the best designed and definitely highlights certain aspects of her figure but I don't wear it. She's got alot of other outfits to choose from. Mostly t-shirt and pants. Like most of the miscellaneous women on the ship.

The women that are on your squad, well, yeah some of those designs are catered to men. When their LI choices it makes sense. Just like when they designed Thane for female gamers and made him handsome with his shirt open all the time (even giving him a medical reason saying that he had to keep his chest uncovered in ME2 or else the build up of moisture would have a negative effect on his illness. Though his alternate appearance contradicted that).

I agree with you when it comes to the constant Miranda butt shots (however, I think it's more humorus and a bit sad). Edi's design was meant to be a sexy android and it doesnt' bother me, I just ignore it and in combat, she's got some cool outfits. Bioware's dressing of the female characters is alot more conservative (even with the strippers) than other game companies. Just take a look at the female fighters in the Mortal Kombat series.

Ultimately, yes, the female characters have gotten more sexualized thorughout the series (especially in 3) but I don't think it is more of a problem than what other companies are doing. This is something that will always be an issue in games. It's gotten better (and worse) in recent years. I use Lara Croft as an example. Yeah she was oversexualized. It was absolutely rediculous for someone doing what she does has the world's biggest yahboes. Her back would give out within an hour. However, her character's traits (non physical) were cool. She was smart, strong, independant, and a good person. Now look at her character in the new game. They made her body less sexualized but her personality.... Now the traits I just mentioned are probably still there but remember that the devs said you don't project yourself onto this character. Instead you feel the instinct to protect her because she's innocent and yadda yadda. This is what I have a problem with. It's who that character is and how she's portrayed that matters to me.

Yes, Samara has a DEEP v-shaped collar but she is strong and honorable, wise and heroic. She's a cool character. And her attire (other than the collar) is not so sexualized that it rules out her character as someone that is legit. I can get over it.

Sorry for the large amount of text, just putting in my opinion. P.S.: Femshep is a huge contribution to female portrayl in videogames. She is the savior of the galaxy. She's not over sexualized. Again, this is my opinion.

[EnvyTB075]

The dress in Kasumis mission has a purpose.

Running around the citadel with it on whilst Mshep gets jeans and a jacket isn't exactly an equal comparison.

[Darth Death]

I like women that don't oversexualize themselves in order to let everyone know she's attractable, but also doesn't cross the line, becoming more like a guy to let everyone know she's strong. I like women who acknowledge what they are, & focus more on their personality than appearance. We need more of that in games.

[Lazengan]

I'm going to remind everywhere that many of the artists in this industry are female

female artists draw oversexualized characters and outfits

[N7KnightSabre]

Lazengan wrote...

I'm going to remind everywhere that many of the artists in this industry are female

female artists draw oversexualized characters and outfits

 It's a diffence between sexy and ****ty.  And you're right.

[xtorma]

Aside from the boots (lol) I thought miranda's wardrobe fit her character. She was designed to be the perfect woman, so It would be logical that she would use her attributes to her advantage. Samara, I would expect her to be in serious grandma armor.

[AlexMBrennan]

I'm going to remind everywhere that many of the artists in this industry are female

So what? I very much doubt that they had any say in the design.

[Sperizer]

giftfish wrote...

The physical attributes and dress of any character in a video game, male or female, should be in line with their personality, profession, environment, etc.  Especially for an RPG.  This will ensure that the game stays immersive for the player.

That being said, my playthrough of the series went from ME2 > ME1 > ME3.  After ME2 I was surprised at the "blandness" of the armor and lack of sexualization of any of the characters in ME1.  And, I thought it was incredibly refreshing.  Everything seemed "appropriate".  Shepard and crew were in a military ship, and their dress showed that.  When they disembarked they were in full armor andn helmets.  None of the women wore too much makeup or had elaborate hairstyles. Everyone was sort of "average" for their body-type, and they were all physically in-shape which made sense. 

You could argue that there was a lack of variety in body models, but that the same time, it seemed that an effort was made to not make breasts and butts big, just to make breasts and butts big.  It was respectful to everyone.  Except Matriarch Benezia.  That was really uncalled for, I mean....wtf was that?

In ME2, character appearance took a much more central role.  Characters were on a Cerberus ship, which likely had different standards for personnel appearance.  In addition, the squad was a hodgepodge of people, so everyone had different dress.  FemShep's breasts and butt grew a small bit, but nothing too immersion-breaking.  But, FemShep notwithstanding, there were now breasts and butts everywhere!

I found it difficult to have a conversation with Samara without staring at her cleavage the entire time.  It was distracting, and it de-humanized her character, which considering she's a little bit akin to a female monk, was pretty disturbing.  Jack's outfit, while fitting her personality was just horribly impractical. There's no way those straps would have stayed in place in a fight.  Miranda's bust was a bit less distracting than Samara's, but it was still ample.  Her outfit while fine for on the ship, was also impractical for combat. If the player had LOTSB, Liara's chest grew as well.  Everyone's butt grew.

Jacob had multiple butt shots, and a catsuit, as well.  He *was* Miranda's counterpart, the problem is that most players didn't like his personality and how he was written.  BioWare could have been a bit more liberal with Thane -- had him shirtless, for example -- but for whatever reason didn't.  Like asari, drell are relatively humanoid in appearance, and I know the Thane fans would have appreciated a bare-chested shot of him like Jacob had.  I can understand BW's hesitation to go that route with Garrus, but if BW isn't afraid of makign a love scene with the very humanoid asari, they shouldn't be afraid to do the same thing with the very humanoid drell.  It seems like more oversexualization of female NPCs -- laced with a bit of favoritism.

ME3 saw even more growth of boobs and butts - -this time for FemShep even more so.  Not to mention camel toes.  The redos for Ashley and Kelly were horrible in my opinion, and seriously undermined their characters.   It was inappropriate and detracted from them as individuals.  It broke immersion.

Of course the Mass Effect series sexualized women (not to mention some of the men).  What's really sad is that it treats women SO much better than so many of the other games out there.  As a result, many folks think we should "be happy" with what we do get from BW.  it should be "good enough".

I'm sorry, but I don't settle for "good enough".

The objectification of women is deeply ingrained in our society, and it doesn't help that the video game industry is dominated by men.  I don't say that in an attempt to make men sound "evil" -- they aren't (well, some are; yeah, you know who you are ).  However, they will lack the feminine perspective. That combined with the fact that game companies specifically market to mostly the male gender, makes it difficult to elicit change.

Once game companies like EA figure out that their customerbase (and profits) can essentially double by ALSO marketing and making games that appeal to FEMALES, then we might make some headway in this department.

^This.

[Demoiselle]

Maxster_ wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

It's kind of funny, because even though I'm a straight male, I preferred the female characters who didn't have enormous breasts or walk around half naked.

Which is a pretty short list, sadly.

How about Ashley "uniform" in ME3?
I think it just as horrible.

But hillarious if you get the line where she says she DOESN'T go on the battlefield in swimwear.

 Ash, honey...

[Doofe2012]

Here's what a real female Marine looks like:



Not skinny, but not buff, either. Well-defined and athletic.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Look guys, it's pretty simple. I agree with Jade on this. Bioware and EA have to figure out to whom they're catering. They are going to make a big impact on the industry. Keep in mind I am far from a prude. I draw the line at the ridiculous.

1) Military: In uniform on the ship. -- this includes synthetics.

2) Vega was okay for training.

3) Non-military: Liara, Tali, Garrus, Javik, Zaeed, Mordin, Grunt, Thane (it's lizard skin wow), were fine. Jack? Honestly I don't know how she didn't have fallout from under those straps unless she had them glued in. The alternate outfit was better, but didn't really need the visor. It still gave her attitude. Kasumi heels on the job? No. Just no. Otherwise fine. Samara and Morinth should have exchanged outfits.

Miranda? if she wants to wear catsuits on the Citadel off duty? fine. on the ship on duty should be like everyone else as part of the crew. same goes for Jacob. Although why does he want to wear a catsuit?

Some of the outfits I was waiting for D-generation X to come out. But where was Mankind?

But here's what Bioware does -- Like with Jacob and Miranda -- We're the "stars" so we get to wear something different while you don't. Until you buy the Kasumi DLC. They want them noticed as different when they really shouldn't be. But if this is a non-military ship, why is everyone else in a uniform? Why don't they just wear what they want? Ah, I see now. That would mean more art design and more money. Bioware does this in all their games. You know who the stars are because "clothes make the person."

In Space: Hard suits & helmets -- everyone. No exceptions. Get real. People don't have exoskeletons.

And please, one last thing.... female protagonists -- Bioware: work on gait animation. Seriously. It's not an afterthought. It was horrible. You just took maleShepards animation and slapped a female skin over it. It should be a separate animation file. FFS!

Everything else about femShep two thumbs up.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 08 décembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[thehomeworld]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Some attacks are just moronic. ME 1 had a total of maybe a half dozen conversations that took place in inhospital locations?

Anyone with two neurons to rub together ought to be able to guess that animating a character with a mask is a lot harder than animating a character without one. I gues that's just too much to ask out of you.

Technically, "animating" a character with a helmet is far easier because one doesn't have to actually animate the face. :innocent:

Someone remind me. The only characters I can remember who wore a breathing mask instead of a helmet were female. Are there ANY exceptions to this?

In 3D animation it would be more difficult t creat the helmet because of more polygons but if you wanted a really detailed face then it would be worse. The break I see in using helmets would be there is no sync ratio you need to make you don't need to worry about making the character's jace, eyes, lips move to go along with the words so in that since it saves alot of time on the maker's part when a helmet is just shoved on. Though they shouldn't allow you to drink w/o a staw then.

As far as face masks I think Mordin had one and maybe Jacob but I'm really sure Mordin had one.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 08 décembre 2012 - 12:49 .

[Jadebaby]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

And instead of asking woman what they think. I think it's more important to ask people what they think about the kind of message it sends the children that they're trying to attract to the franchise.

Especially when these skimpily dressed, overtly unrealistic woman are sexable.

Mass Effect isn't for kids.

Have you seen Paragon Lost or ever been to a Gaming convention?

By trying to take the COD crowd, you're bound to get kids attracted to the franchise... Not tht there wasn't any already.

[thehomeworld]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Look guys, it's pretty simple. I agree with Jade on this. Bioware and EA have to figure out to whom they're catering. They are going to make a big impact on the industry. Keep in mind I am far from a prude. I draw the line at the ridiculous.

1) Military: In uniform on the ship. -- this includes synthetics.

2) Vega was okay for training.

3) Non-military: Liara, Tali, Garrus, Javik, Zaeed, Mordin, Grunt, Thane (it's lizard skin wow), were fine. Jack? Honestly I don't know how she didn't have fallout from under those straps unless she had them glued in. The alternate outfit was better, but didn't really need the visor. It still gave her attitude. Kasumi heels on the job? No. Just no. Otherwise fine. Samara and Morinth should have exchanged outfits.

Miranda? if she wants to wear catsuits on the Citadel off duty? fine. on the ship on duty should be like everyone else as part of the crew. same goes for Jacob. Although why does he want to wear a catsuit?

Some of the outfits I was waiting for D-generation X to come out. But where was Mankind?

But here's what Bioware does -- Like with Jacob and Miranda -- We're the "stars" so we get to wear something different while you don't. Until you buy the Kasumi DLC. They want them noticed as different when they really shouldn't be. But if this is a non-military ship, why is everyone else in a uniform? Why don't they just wear what they want? Ah, I see now. That would mean more art design and more money. Bioware does this in all their games. You know who the stars are because "clothes make the person."

In Space: Hard suits & helmets -- everyone. No exceptions. Get real. People don't have exoskeletons.

And please, one last thing.... female protagonists -- Bioware: work on gait animation. Seriously. It's not an afterthought. It was horrible. You just took maleShepards animation and slapped a female skin over it. It should be a separate animation file. FFS!

Everything else about femShep two thumbs up.

I agree with this.

Functional and realistic is better then sexy gal's (and a few guys) in space. If you're ship is military get them all in uniforms (Vega annoyed me alot because he couldn't find one) their personalities should set them apart, if you have crewmen that are working with you but aren't apart of your league then they can where clothing that sets them apart but that is tasteful like all the Aliens save Thane were pretty good, Jack should've just shown up in her DLC clothing from the start and she can have a printed hardsuit.

When off duty like on hub worlds then you and the crew can be casual if they have the designs for them.

[Massa FX]

I think Shephards armor is fantastic. Dress in ME2 was odd and ME3 is a hooker dress. As for others females... don't care for Jacks clothes. She must be cold. Poor thing. Miranda... I personally would hate to walk around with my pants all up in my crack like that. Uncomfortable.

Edi and Allers. Shame on BW.

Kasumi, Liara, Ash, Dr. Chakwas, Traynor, Aria, Nyreen, Eve, and whoever else is appropriately attired.

[Massa FX]

@shotgunjulia Shepards walk, run, sit animations are clearly male Shepard's. I don't know why they did this because all other women in the game have female walk, run and sit anims.

Its as if they believe female militia can't be taken seriously unless they have male mannerisms.

This is a disappointment for me.

[David7204]

I've had enough of people saying that the lack of spacesuits is due to BioWare promoting their female characters. That is moronic.

If you want to argue that BioWare is promoting their characters by giving them impractical outfits in general, fine. What's not fine is arguing that BioWare is sexist for giving females impractical outfits...and then twice as sexist for not giving them completely new outfits for space!

The reason why developers did not give half the characters completely new outfits for a handful of missions should be stupidly obvious. It's a lot of work. It has absolutely nothing to do with BioWare saying "LOLZ HAVING BOOBIEZZZ IS MORE IMPORTENT THEN BRETHING ROFL" like half the people here seem to think.

Do people grasp that simple fact? That creating outfits is work? That acting as if the only possible reason BioWare would not spend resources on such a thing is to show boobies is idiotic?

Modifié par David7204, 08 décembre 2012 - 01:22 .

[Jadebaby]

Doesn't mean they couldn't give people like Liara and (i think) Javik more appropriate attire for space scenes.. Regardless of the effort involved, the whole rebreather face mask is just f*cking stupid. It's like they think they're just underwater or something..

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Massa FX wrote...

@shotgunjulia Shepards walk, run, sit animations are clearly male Shepard's. I don't know why they did this because all other women in the game have female walk, run and sit anims.

Its as if they believe female militia can't be taken seriously unless they have male mannerisms.

This is a disappointment for me.

Don't get me going on the femShepard sit and leg cross in the dress.

Laziness and $$$

They would have had to design a separate set of animations for femShep because the other female characters used the "generic female" animations, except for Miranda, Samara, Kasumi, Kelly, Liara, Samantha, Gianna, Wasea, Morinth, hmmm... funny about that. But they were not "third person" animations, and I don't know how the Unreal engine works. 

IIRC Gears 3 didn't seem to have this problem when I was playing as Anya or Samantha (e.g. they didn't move like Marcus or Cole) -- just comparing 3rd Person Shooters to rub salt in the wound.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

I've had enough of people saying that the lack of spacesuits is due to BioWare promoting their female characters. That is moronic.

If you want to argue that BioWare is promoting their characters by giving them impractical outfits in general, fine. What's not fine is arguing that BioWare is sexist for giving females impractical outfits...and then twice as sexist for not giving them completely new outfits for space!

The reason why developers did not give half the characters completely new outfits for a handful of missions should be stupidly obvious. It's a lot of work. It has absolutely nothing to do with BioWare saying "LOLZ HAVING BOOBIEZZZ IS MORE IMPORTENT THEN BRETHING ROFL" like half the people here seem to think.

Do people grasp that simple fact? That creating outfits is work? That acting as if the only possible reason BioWare would not spend resources on such a thing is to show boobies is idiotic?

But it is true. It's damned true. You are doing your best to justify this, and this is the best you can come up with? They put characters in space suits with helmets in Mass Effect 1. There is no excuse. Your post is pure unadulterated BS.  

If they're going to be on a mission where they're going to be exposed to a vacuum or toxic environment they should be put in the proper attire. 

If you have an objection to this being "the game company's responsibility" then put it on the player. It should be in the load out screen for the mission. The player should put the proper attire on the character. Of course this would go over like a lead balloon today.

Say for example you failed to do so on the Geth Station and you took Samara and Jack. They wore breather masks. Talk about exposed skin. Ever read about what happened to a cosmonaut who was exposed to the vacuum in space? They would die due to decompression when they entered the station. It would not be pretty. There was no air. Geth do not require air.

You wore a hardsuit and full helmet by default even if you had a visor selected IIRC. You would have to solo the mission or restart from the loadout.

I do not know how you were even hearing gunfire. Except that we got used to hearing gunfire and rocket engines and stuff in Star Wars.

In space no one can hear you scream.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 08 décembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[Binary_Helix 1]

Kel Riever wrote...

This thread reveals more about the hangups of individual posters than it does about Mass Effect.

I'm not naming names but some of these are pretty obvious, 'Look in the mirror for the answers to your problems,' kinds of posts.

Agreed. I didn't want to say this but envy and resentment play a major role in human nature. Perhaps doubly so with women.

[David7204]

God damn, how many people are going to point out the vacuum is a bad thing as if they're smart for doing so? Believe it or not, most people know that you can't survive in space. Most people know that planets with no atmosphere are either hot or cold. And yet we've got literally dozens of people just basking in the joy of telling others, that, gee whiz, people can't live in vacuum. What a novel concept. How low do you have to set the bar to where explaining such a thing is an intellectual achievement?

No, I don't like it. But does it have a thing to do with sexism? No.

Modifié par David7204, 08 décembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

God damn, how many people are going to point out the vacuum is a bad thing as if they're smart for doing so? Believe it or not, most people know that you can't survive in space. Most people know that planets with no atmosphere are either hot or cold. And yet we've got literally dozens of people just basking in the joy of telling others, that, gee whiz, people can't live in vacuum. What a novel concept. How low do you have to set the bar to where explaining such a thing is an intellectual achievement?

I wouldn't go that far. You're overestimating the general public. There are people who think pro-wrestling is real. I've met people who are so dumb that there should be a law against them breeding, but they went and had big families. So don't use the word most with such confidence.

And yet you have to go and use the $$$ approach to justify the showing of skin in a vacuum. It's not that hard to program a change of outfits in a game.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 08 décembre 2012 - 02:46 .