395 réponses à ce sujet

[thehomeworld]

Rosstoration wrote...

And all the male characters were not pumped full of steroids? Kaiden, Steve, Shepard, Vega.
I also had a problem with my Shepard, being an Infiltrator, built like a brick ****-house. I mean Simo Hayha is the greatest sniper/solo soldier to exist and he was barely over 5 ft tall. Ripped bodies are useless for those type of military roles, they are bulky, need constant feeding, clumsy, tire easily, Thane has the perfect infiltrator frame. My Shepard was not a member of the chippendales in his spare time.

And Ladies, yes it is partly your fault we live in this kind of society, when you buy celebrity trash magazines and fashion magazines, where the profits all go into the pockets of rich male CEO's and board members. You effectively killed feminism, so don't whine about the fruits of your results.

I agree Vega was overly pump too much for any good reason other then eye candy and I hated it but I hated the fact he couldn't find a uniform till the last mission of the game. I thought Kaiden and Mshep were fine they seemed normal to me Jacob was actually alittle too soft but I could forgive him because he said he wasn't a full time military man but yes his outfit like Miranda's annoyed me and I wanted that changed too. The males shouldn't be given skin tight clothing for the sake of it both of which Vega and Jacob where obviously for. Mshep at least had the option of casual fit or tighter (like the firefly outfit).

For the ladies comment I assume you mean in general ( who take up those trash mags are now whining because their utopia is fulfilled due to feminism fanatic agendas) but the majority of the female populous don't actually agree with the fema****s out there they've taken some basic things women agree with then went all psycho on it for their own bloodthirsty gains.

It's not whining to want to be shown respect as a female gamer and to have your female leads and crew dress appropriately especially in battle, and while on ship at least give options for all the crew so they can range from modest, practical, practical and fashionable, - ****ty because like another poster mentioned she Chose to be the fire mage in the artic in the battle bikini but she could've chosen to be modest and well prepared.

I've been a gamer for years I was there for dreamcast, genesis, and playstation soo I've had my fill of women in bikini's or titillating non battle friendly armor its just another vixen who cares not of herself health wise. Sure there are worse offenders out there Dynasty Warriors makes you nearly ashamed to be a woman with their awful outfits and flutes in place of swords, or every bikini elf known to man, but ME started out as something different showing at least me that they valued my female lead, her female crew, and ultimately me as a female player by making them conscious of themselves wanting to dress like they not only could do the job but live once it was done they weren't sex symbols there just military girls. ME2 changed that and as a result made me feel like they no longer cared about the females in the game or by extension me, and then to some extent ME3 this continued. I would like ME4 to go back to being considerate like ME was.

[Binary_Helix 1]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And they're not treated equally. If women were being paid equally for their work and not 70 cents on the dollar for the same work as men, then there might be a little different take, but it's not that way out there. We still make 70 cents on the dollar as a man for the same job across the business world.

This simply isn't true and is a myth concocted by radical feminists. Women take less demanding jobs, work more part time, and are frequently employed in less lucrative areas. If a pay gap was as widespread as you believe class action lawsuits would be filed everyday with massive punitive payouts. This whole female oppression stuff is a lie. They've never had it so good.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 08 décembre 2012 - 02:57 .

[David7204]

I have to agree. 70 cents on the dollar leads to some very ridiculous conclusions using simple mathematical analysis. Probably not the kind of thing people who study this sort of thing would pay attention to.

[Suspire]

As a lady I wanted more clothes like ME2's Kasumi mission dress for my Shepard. And yes I love high heels, make up, sexy hair, sexy everything and sex. And ME1's armor. And my SHepard is girly.
Feminists/ME fans hate me, but I love being miss fanservice more. The only thing that bothers me is the borderline **** shaming and stereotyping I've heard out of some ME fans' mouths. But let's not talk about that.
I guess I just can't take video games as seriously as most people. ME to me is more like Galaxy Quest...

Oh except ME3 EDI, I don't like her, she just looks silly. But it's actually more about how her plot went pinocchio that bothers me.

[xeNNN]

krukow wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...
Does BW make you feel like they're catering more to the male players

Femshep has 3 lesbian romances that go to the end of the game (Kelly, Traynor, Liara)
She has 2 potential straight romances that go to the end of the game (Garrus and Kaiden), one of whom is bi, one of whom can't be romanced without an import.

BIOWARE.
HATES.
WOMEN.

actually, thats 2 gay, 2 straight,1 none-gendered romance.

asari dont have a specific gender so. 

i dont think they hate women lol they just made a mistake but what isnt obvious these days lol.

[Lyrandori]

I don't like all the outfits for the female characters in the series but some are good and fits the character's personality. But Mass Effect needs to generate money for the devs and the publisher, and the video gaming market is mostly dominated by males, so catering to them is logic. I could go a bit deeper in the subject. I'd like to share some ideas that I read some time ago and I agree with most of them (not everything though), so here goes the " theories " (as to why video gaming industry treats women characters and gamers the way it does right now)...

This always comes back in my mind, but does anyone think about how most girls during the 1990's (more so back then, compared to more recent years) considered video games like? And of course what they thought of boys playing games? How many young males were looked down upon, mocked or even rejected by girls when told that the boy plays video games? It was like " eeeew, you play games?! ". I am not kidding, it happened (and still happens to this very day, but back then it was horribly common).

It was a bad perception from most girls. It's not as bad today, it has improved over the years. But in the past video gaming grew by, for and with males generally speaking. That is why a good 15+ years later it shows. The video gaming industry is mostly dominated by males (especially gamers, even if there are female game designers whom themselves aren't necessarily gamers per se). So, if around 15 years ago or so girls didn't go full " let's be mean to male nerds " mode and didn't just turn their back to video gaming in general then maybe today male game designers wouldn't pinch at women and over-sexualize them that often.

That's also why even to this day when you play some on-line games and suddenly " out of nowhere " you hear a girl over the mic and the whole male audience goes silent or on the contrary are like " was that a girl?! ". That's also why there's mockery with made-up acronyms like G.I.R.L. which stands for Guy In Real Life, or M.M.O.R.P.G. which stands for Many Men Online Role-Playing Girls. It's simply because in the past (say 10, 15 or 20 years ago at most) girls in general just weren't interested in video gaming, and not just that but actually looked down upon gaming and male gamers in general. If from those times girls were more interested by video games and also grew by, for and with gaming similarly to how male kids experienced it during their teens, in greater numbers, then it would be different today and you wouldn't have that much over-sexualization of women characters in gaming.

So anyway as far as Mass Effect's portrayal and appearances of women goes I think it's alright for the most part, and only questionable for some (Samara, Jack, Miranda) due to how impractical it would be for combat-related situations. Indeed it should fit the context as well not " just " the character's personality. But what I want to say and repeat is that there's issues related to women characters' treatments in general gaming that stems back from many years ago from the video gaming phenomenon in our society, especially amongst teenage girls at the time. And even still today is occurring, albeit at a significantly less negative extent. Today girls usually " accept ", or are much more tolerant of video gaming in general (and tolerant of the men gamers too).

Modifié par Lyrandori, 08 décembre 2012 - 03:41 .

[Maxster_]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Look guys, it's pretty simple. I agree with Jade on this. Bioware and EA have to figure out to whom they're catering. They are going to make a big impact on the industry. Keep in mind I am far from a prude. I draw the line at the ridiculous.

1) Military: In uniform on the ship. -- this includes synthetics.

2) Vega was okay for training.

3) Non-military: Liara, Tali, Garrus, Javik, Zaeed, Mordin, Grunt, Thane (it's lizard skin wow), were fine. Jack? Honestly I don't know how she didn't have fallout from under those straps unless she had them glued in. The alternate outfit was better, but didn't really need the visor. It still gave her attitude. Kasumi heels on the job? No. Just no. Otherwise fine. Samara and Morinth should have exchanged outfits.

Miranda? if she wants to wear catsuits on the Citadel off duty? fine. on the ship on duty should be like everyone else as part of the crew. same goes for Jacob. Although why does he want to wear a catsuit?

Some of the outfits I was waiting for D-generation X to come out. But where was Mankind?

But here's what Bioware does -- Like with Jacob and Miranda -- We're the "stars" so we get to wear something different while you don't. Until you buy the Kasumi DLC. They want them noticed as different when they really shouldn't be. But if this is a non-military ship, why is everyone else in a uniform? Why don't they just wear what they want? Ah, I see now. That would mean more art design and more money. Bioware does this in all their games. You know who the stars are because "clothes make the person."

In Space: Hard suits & helmets -- everyone. No exceptions. Get real. People don't have exoskeletons.

For me that was real immersion breaker. Jack in vacuum... ugh.. Samara and Miranda no better. Liara with mask - really? Internal pressure will tear her apart. On par with Javik.
Also, custom uniforms are not allowed in any self-respecting decent military. Uniform is a symbol, especially officer's one.
It is not some minor thing.

And please, one last thing.... female protagonists -- Bioware: work on gait animation. Seriously. It's not an afterthought. It was horrible. You just took maleShepards animation and slapped a female skin over it. It should be a separate animation file. FFS!

Everything else about femShep two thumbs up.

I saw that. That was really horrible.

[Doofe2012]

thehomeworld wrote...

Rosstoration wrote...

And all the male characters were not pumped full of steroids? Kaiden, Steve, Shepard, Vega.
I also had a problem with my Shepard, being an Infiltrator, built like a brick ****-house. I mean Simo Hayha is the greatest sniper/solo soldier to exist and he was barely over 5 ft tall. Ripped bodies are useless for those type of military roles, they are bulky, need constant feeding, clumsy, tire easily, Thane has the perfect infiltrator frame. My Shepard was not a member of the chippendales in his spare time.

And Ladies, yes it is partly your fault we live in this kind of society, when you buy celebrity trash magazines and fashion magazines, where the profits all go into the pockets of rich male CEO's and board members. You effectively killed feminism, so don't whine about the fruits of your results.

I agree Vega was overly pump too much for any good reason other then eye candy and I hated it but I hated the fact he couldn't find a uniform till the last mission of the game. I thought Kaiden and Mshep were fine they seemed normal to me Jacob was actually alittle too soft but I could forgive him because he said he wasn't a full time military man but yes his outfit like Miranda's annoyed me and I wanted that changed too. The males shouldn't be given skin tight clothing for the sake of it both of which Vega and Jacob where obviously for. Mshep at least had the option of casual fit or tighter (like the firefly outfit).

You know that "boots and utes" (t-shirt, utility trousers, and combat boots) is a valid thing in the military, right? It's mostly for physical training and physical labor, but it's not just for Vega to show off his muscles. As for his SF-03 shirt, unit and course t-shirts are usually allowed at commander's discretion.

The unrealistic thing about Vega is how ridiculously bulky he is. No active-duty infantryman who regularly goes into the field looks like that. No one. You might find some POGs and desk-jockeys who are approaching that level of muscle mass, but grunts do way too much hiking and running around while eating only MREs to have the caloric surplus necessary to build a ton of muscle.

[Jadebaby]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

This thread reveals more about the hangups of individual posters than it does about Mass Effect.

I'm not naming names but some of these are pretty obvious, 'Look in the mirror for the answers to your problems,' kinds of posts.

Agreed. I didn't want to say this but envy and resentment play a major role in human nature. Perhaps doubly so with women.

You appear to be very misogynist, you know?

[Tavor Jeager]

Maxster_ wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Look guys, it's pretty simple. I agree with Jade on this. Bioware and EA have to figure out to whom they're catering. They are going to make a big impact on the industry. Keep in mind I am far from a prude. I draw the line at the ridiculous.

1) Military: In uniform on the ship. -- this includes synthetics.

2) Vega was okay for training.

3) Non-military: Liara, Tali, Garrus, Javik, Zaeed, Mordin, Grunt, Thane (it's lizard skin wow), were fine. Jack? Honestly I don't know how she didn't have fallout from under those straps unless she had them glued in. The alternate outfit was better, but didn't really need the visor. It still gave her attitude. Kasumi heels on the job? No. Just no. Otherwise fine. Samara and Morinth should have exchanged outfits.

Miranda? if she wants to wear catsuits on the Citadel off duty? fine. on the ship on duty should be like everyone else as part of the crew. same goes for Jacob. Although why does he want to wear a catsuit?

Some of the outfits I was waiting for D-generation X to come out. But where was Mankind?

But here's what Bioware does -- Like with Jacob and Miranda -- We're the "stars" so we get to wear something different while you don't. Until you buy the Kasumi DLC. They want them noticed as different when they really shouldn't be. But if this is a non-military ship, why is everyone else in a uniform? Why don't they just wear what they want? Ah, I see now. That would mean more art design and more money. Bioware does this in all their games. You know who the stars are because "clothes make the person."

In Space: Hard suits & helmets -- everyone. No exceptions. Get real. People don't have exoskeletons.

For me that was real immersion breaker. Jack in vacuum... ugh.. Samara and Miranda no better. Liara with mask - really? Internal pressure will tear her apart. On par with Javik.
Also, custom uniforms are not allowed in any self-respecting decent military. Uniform is a symbol, especially officer's one.
It is not some minor thing.

And please, one last thing.... female protagonists -- Bioware: work on gait animation. Seriously. It's not an afterthought. It was horrible. You just took maleShepards animation and slapped a female skin over it. It should be a separate animation file. FFS!

Everything else about femShep two thumbs up.

I saw that. That was really horrible.

The funny thing is, you don't need a pressurised hard suit for vacuum. if they had just added an enclosed helmet, even a bubble helmet if the face is so important Miranda at leased would be close to ok since all you need for the rest of your body is something to stop your skin expanding and so having skin tight body suit would even make sense, that is actually what I thought was going on in the first game with the tight clothing everywhere, I certainly would like to have clothing I could turn into a space suit in a few seconds in space if it isn't too uncomfortable.

a handy wiki link on this http://en.wikipedia....e_activity_suit

And then with just removing the heels and not focusing the screen on her arse all the time you would just have the armour vs weight which can go either way if you have shields.

(Side note if this was what was used then Shepherd would have been just fine with a pin ****** hole at the beginning of ME2, probably bruises or haemorrhaging but not dead as long as s/he was found in time. And of course as long as all the air wasn't stupidly put in one tank.)

To the original question, as a male I found it an annoying immersion breaker, probably much more so then I normally would after the sensible base established in ME1 where everyone gets a suit and helmet.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

This thread reveals more about the hangups of individual posters than it does about Mass Effect.

I'm not naming names but some of these are pretty obvious, 'Look in the mirror for the answers to your problems,' kinds of posts.

Agreed. I didn't want to say this but envy and resentment play a major role in human nature. Perhaps doubly so with women.

You appear to be very misogynist, you know?

Misandry is far more ubiquitous here and generally but most people don't even know what that is. I take issue with male sexuality being constantly denigrated as disgusting, perverted, creepy, and juvenile, while female sexuality is given a pass.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 08 décembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[Lili Dragunova]

Jade8aby88 wrote...You appear to be very misogynist, you know?

You're using the wrong word here. A misogynist is someone who hates women. The poster's statement in no way implies a hatred of women, rather that they're more prone to jealousy. Which at the worst could be called stereotyping.

To the topic at hand, I have no problem with sexy characters. I'm a woman and I like me some eye candy at times too. As long as that isn't the primary and only reason that the character is there, you'll hear no complaints from me.

Modifié par Lili Dragunova, 08 décembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[David7204]

And there are absolutely no main characters in the Mass Effect series whose primary or only purpose is eye candy.

[Rodia Driftwood]

These social issues are riddled with with the words "who gives a flying f*ck?".

[Wintermist]

The main problem is that it mixes the military style with the civilian style.

Military; Uniforms, military gear.

Civilian; Wear whatever, use whatever.

Personally I would have rather wanted all characters to be military, and if you pick up anyone else, let them be involved as advisors only. Allow them in cutscenes and involve them in the story, make them alive and interesting, but leave the combat to the professionals.

So you got Shepard, Kaidan, Ashley and James. These are alliance military. I would have rather have lots of Alliance squad members to pick from. They could all be equally interesting, but they'd all be combat trained and have different personalities and skills.

Make travelling feel like you're travelling, show us that on the ship they got things to do on the ship. Training together, relaxing together, wathing vids, discussing. This is a major way to get to know your guys, talk to them, and train with them. Teach them things, learn some things, trade stories.

And on the ship everyone can interact with eachother, civilians and the military.

But yeah, it would be a more realistic Mass Effect, it would feel more different from what we have now. It's a personal taste in the end, I would have preferred a military outfit, but I still enjoy what we have (even though I try to only bring the Alliance guys out on missions xD )

[Suspire]

To me it's hilarious when some people don't bat an eyelash at a species made of hot young human-looking blue babes and other nonsensical stuff, but want realism in their sci fi space opera games because military in the 2180's.
But it's just my perspective.

Edit: I wasn't even going into asari being offensive or not, what I was trying to point out is how people think putting on makeup in a sci fi game in future fictional military is not plausible, but don't think of the chances of a super advanced alien species looking exactly like human top models. Among other examples of implausible stuff like medi gel and SYNTHESIS. And everyone speaking the same language/having a super awesome translator. Come on.
Next thing you're gonna say we should only have shaved hair options and fugly faces cause women in the military should be old ugly and depressed.
And who wants fiction in sci fi anyway, am I rite.

Modifié par Suspire, 09 décembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[EnvyTB075]

Suspire wrote...

To me it's hilarious when some people don't bat an eyelash at a species made of hot young human-looking blue babes and other nonsensical stuff, but want realism in their sci fi space opera games because military in the 2180's.
But it's just my perspective.

I do, i hate the literal space elves and would love nothing else but to gloat to Tevos that they were too ****ing stubborn and could have prepared if they had joined in the war.

Instead Shepard, no matter what i think, is heartbroken over a race she hardly has time for.

[StayFrosty05]

Suspire wrote...

To me it's hilarious when some people don't bat an eyelash at a species made of hot young human-looking blue babes and other nonsensical stuff, but want realism in their sci fi space opera games because military in the 2180's.
But it's just my perspective.

I am no fan of the 'Blue Space Babes'....<_<....in fact I really do not see the appeal at all, but then again I'm female, so there is probably something I'm just not getting.

[Wintermist]

I didn't really mind the Asari, I just see them as a race that happen to look good. But yeah, if they would have made them more different in the face, like a different nose, they would have looked more proper I think. Now they're basically just humans with funky hair.

[ZLurps]

Some thoughts from male gamer.

Outfits of certain characters in ME2 and ME3 were IMO poor design decisions. They went so far with them that they look ridiculous and out of place even in ME universe. I guess BW / EA thought this is a good idea that would bring some of the so called CoD audience to them, but IMO all they managed to do was something so old and tiresome that all it contributed to game was adding one more element that needed sometimes conscious effort to ignore so, overall made experience more tedious.

There is much effort from BW to give fans of the series great experience, and IMO they succeeded in many things but there are also things where they dropped the ball. Beside outfits, say, Kai Leng for example. Character was supposed to appeal to 13 year old, or so crowd, but failed miserably, ending up to contestant for "Worst Villain Ever" award.

With all the attention BW is putting all sort of "Romances" in their game, it's very difficult to know what is really happening. One possibility is that sexy models make ideas developed in BW team easier to sell for higher ups in EA, which they must do if they want to get funded. If so, the situation is really hilarious. I mean then we have multimillion dollar business funding content for "Adult Babies for Star Wars Forever" and "Furries Are People Too" crowd thinking that it will take them to mainstream. Good luck with that, haha.

Modifié par ZLurps, 08 décembre 2012 - 07:01 .

[kumquats]

StayFrosty05 wrote...
I am no fan of the 'Blue Space Babes'....<_<....in fact I really do not see the appeal at all, but then again I'm female, so there is probably something I'm just not getting.

This has nothing to do with being a woman, this has something to do with being a Trekki. And BW are huge Trekkis.

Star Trek Forever

[Zardoc]

xeNNN wrote...

krukow wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...
Does BW make you feel like they're catering more to the male players

Femshep has 3 lesbian romances that go to the end of the game (Kelly, Traynor, Liara)
She has 2 potential straight romances that go to the end of the game (Garrus and Kaiden), one of whom is bi, one of whom can't be romanced without an import.

BIOWARE.
HATES.
WOMEN.

actually, thats 2 gay, 2 straight,1 none-gendered romance.

asari dont have a specific gender so. 

i dont think they hate women lol they just made a mistake but what isnt obvious these days lol.

Asari are monogendered. They are female.

[Zardoc]

David7204 wrote...

And there are absolutely no main characters in the Mass Effect series whose primary or only purpose is eye candy.

Steve.

[thehomeworld]

Doofe2012 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

Rosstoration wrote...

And all the male characters were not pumped full of steroids? Kaiden, Steve, Shepard, Vega.
I also had a problem with my Shepard, being an Infiltrator, built like a brick ****-house. I mean Simo Hayha is the greatest sniper/solo soldier to exist and he was barely over 5 ft tall. Ripped bodies are useless for those type of military roles, they are bulky, need constant feeding, clumsy, tire easily, Thane has the perfect infiltrator frame. My Shepard was not a member of the chippendales in his spare time.

And Ladies, yes it is partly your fault we live in this kind of society, when you buy celebrity trash magazines and fashion magazines, where the profits all go into the pockets of rich male CEO's and board members. You effectively killed feminism, so don't whine about the fruits of your results.

I agree Vega was overly pump too much for any good reason other then eye candy and I hated it but I hated the fact he couldn't find a uniform till the last mission of the game. I thought Kaiden and Mshep were fine they seemed normal to me Jacob was actually alittle too soft but I could forgive him because he said he wasn't a full time military man but yes his outfit like Miranda's annoyed me and I wanted that changed too. The males shouldn't be given skin tight clothing for the sake of it both of which Vega and Jacob where obviously for. Mshep at least had the option of casual fit or tighter (like the firefly outfit).

You know that "boots and utes" (t-shirt, utility trousers, and combat boots) is a valid thing in the military, right? It's mostly for physical training and physical labor, but it's not just for Vega to show off his muscles. As for his SF-03 shirt, unit and course t-shirts are usually allowed at commander's discretion.

The unrealistic thing about Vega is how ridiculously bulky he is. No active-duty infantryman who regularly goes into the field looks like that. No one. You might find some POGs and desk-jockeys who are approaching that level of muscle mass, but grunts do way too much hiking and running around while eating only MREs to have the caloric surplus necessary to build a ton of muscle.

I do realise what Vega is wearing is a uniform style but its a casual style what one would wear when not on duty notice how everyone else on the ship has a uniform save him? That helps to make him rediculous and gives off the vibe of a slacker except his version of doing nothing is working out for Steve:huh: I count him like the rest of the Alliance crew so he should've been in his blues since the first shot of him Ash was bad enough. He has no escuse to be out of proper uniform. But yes I do agree with you MRE's wouldn't allow him to stay that fit which means he's either on something or has smuggled in tons of extra goodies I mean he does have all those crates there its probably his muscle stash.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Asari... since this has been brought up. What did we learn from Liara about the Asari in ME1? They are a mono-gendered species. Fine, they're aliens. But wait! Mating among their own kind is frowned upon. Since when? It couldn't have always been since they didn't always have space travel. Mating with other species doesn't add to the species; it is just a belief unless their scientists found out that it did and Liara is indeed 1/4 Krogan, but that's not the way it works.

Then we get the mixed messages about "promiscuity", and all we see are asari shaking their asses in Chora's den or in merc bands. You don't get as far as they did if this is all you did.

We never get to see Thessia, because that would require them writing out a rich culture, as well as another side of it. We do get to see the space port on Illium, and one building, and I can imagine Thessia is similar. Not really very much. But a culture? I don't think we would have gotten what we think we should have. I think we would have gotten something other than we should have. Liara would have been the exception to the rule. We would have seen more Chora's dens and few Liaras.

Come to think of it, we don't really know very much about any of the alien species we encounter, do we? Just what the characters tell us about them. Not that our Cerberus vessel would have been welcome on Palaven or Thessia, or Irune, etc.

I think it would have been nice to have had more development of each of these races. We've had this "humans are special" and the apex species in the galaxy. But what if we're not?