395 réponses à ce sujet

[hadrain77]

RPGmom28 wrote...

I have to admit that it took a while for me to ever take Miranda on a mission where I was given options not to take her, because she came out in high heels and a rubber suit and announced that she was perfect, not to mention the fact that she put her rear end in the camera every conversation.

When she showed up for the first time, I gave a monumental eye roll. Don't get me started on EDI's new body. Cameltoes are ridiculous. I think Samara's outfit is laughable and unrealistic. Still, I like her. I also like Ashley, Tali, Femshep, and very much like Liara. As much as Samara and Miranda are dressed like party strippers, they are strong female characters in leadership/powerful roles. This is something that is sorely lacking in many video games. As a female gamer who has outright refused to buy most games where I can't play a female avatar, this stuff matters when I spend my money.

It has taken some time to get over the overtly sexual outfits of some female characters, but I still appreciate that in Bioware games I can be my own gender and that my character can romance male characters. I can get over the scantily clad women as long as they keep giving me attractive men.

I hear a lot of complaints about the female wear in the ME games, especially Miranda, but have you played the MP as a Vorcha, you are basically wearing a speedo into battle.

Modifié par hadrain77, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:27 .

[Wintermist]

This looks great to me, a female armour. Wouldn't be that much different from a male one. But sure, I understand it's a game, but are we really gonna miss that they are female even in this? They would walk differently, move differently. We would know. I would have liked that instead.

Picture taken from XCOM concept art.

[RinuCZ]

I like how Bioware writes women. They get an actual personality unlike in a majority of games I have played.

I loved how normal female crew looked in ME1. No crappy make-up, no half-naked bodies, they were inteligent and not bland, etc. It was one of many things which charmed me and put ME1 on a pedestal in my eyes.
I probably rolled eyes at ME2 outfits (I don't remember). But to be fair, Jacob was pure fanservice too. I got slightly irritated when the game decided that all asari have to work as dancers/strippers at some point in their lives. However my crew was still a bunch of cynics or pragmatists, so I don't mind.
At ME3 these characters started being useless and their established models changed to be sexier (Ashley, EDI, default femShep, Liara's breasts). And the latex outfit of the reporter... *eye-roll* Eve was solid addition, though. And at least, ME3 introduced a new non-caucasian human female, while Ashley obviously isn't hispanic anymore.

I guess I haven't seen it as a major issue until characters lost their purpose aside from being there or being LI.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[RPGmom28]

Yes, I have played Vorcha in MP, but not much. They really creep me out with their slobbery snarly noises. I do agree that they are one race that definitely needs to put more ON, not take more off.

[LinksOcarina]

spirosz wrote...

I like big butts and I cannot lie.

But, "You know its beauty when the smile is her best curve."

Jack outfit suits her because her body is a work of art, beautiful and she uses it as a self-defense technique. Why she didn't wear armor when in space? Bioware not thinking. She could of had some sick looking light armor, all worn out, with graffiti even, oh the possibilities.

Actually I thought it was due to giving her a unique look.

Cause you know, everything is ok if you give them a small breathing mask in a space opera. 

[Rosstoration]

Sperizer wrote...

Also I'm pretty sure men in the military are physically fit.. so your other point is kind of invalid. Though, not every Alliance dude is taking steriods. Joker isn't very muscular. 

A soldier looks like this:


Not this:


I fear you are falling into the trap in thinking that fitness means overinflated muscles. Bruce Lee is the male holotype (the image of which all men should be), he is far from muscler, he has lean muscle mass which is more important for active soldiers rather than dead weight.
Also, do I sense that you are calling the pot black? You throw in a justification for the skewed model of the male physique but you are up in arms about the inclusions of the skewed model of the female physique.
I challenge your justification and say this is the future and natural selection has made big breasts and large asses the norm, large mammory glands to feed children, and good child-bearing hips. So there.
And Traynor was not overly sexualised in appearence.

Modifié par Rosstoration, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:33 .

[frostajulie]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Honestly, after how they treated femshep in ME3 ,the Miranda butt shots don’t seem like a big deal anymore.  Comparing them now, ME2 was a lot more respectful of female gamers because of how it treated femshep and her choices. I didn’t feel “punished” for choosing a female shepard during ME2 and she was treated the same as maleshep. That (for me) was more important than what my crew mates wore. I had every confidence that the mass effect team would continue this trend (treating femshep fairly) but then ME3 rolled around.

None of male shepard’s LI’s were admittedly forgotten about right to the last second (Thane, yup they forgot he was a LI *facepalm*) None of maleshep’s romances dumped him and got knocked up by someone else (the guys would have LOVED that “realism” I’m sure). Maleshep had an option to tell Ashley off at the hospital , femshep just accepted that she “cheated” on kaidan >_<. There are more examples but ME3 was the first bioware game that made me feel my choices were limited because I was a female character.

Quoted because this is how I feel as well. Up until ME3 I thought Bioware respected fem shep and the female gamer.

Gosh they sure proved me wrong.

[StayFrosty05]

Rosstoration wrote...

Sperizer wrote...

Also I'm pretty sure men in the military are physically fit.. so your other point is kind of invalid. Though, not every Alliance dude is taking steriods. Joker isn't very muscular. 

...snip...


I fear you are falling into the trap in thinking that fitness means overinflated muscles. Bruce Lee is the male holotype (the image of which all men should be), he is far from muscler, he has lean muscle mass which is more important for active soldiers rather than dead weight.
Also, do I sense that you are calling the pot black? You throw in a justification for the skewed model of the male physique but you are up in arms about the inclusions of the skewed model of the female physique.
I challenge your justification and say this is the future and natural selection has made big breasts and large asses the norm, large mammory glands to feed children, and good child-bearing hips. So there.
And Traynor was not overly sexualised in appearence.

...And I fear you Rosstoration are falling into the trap of thinking everyone has the same skeletal structure....your first pic of the 'young' soldier is fair enough....for two reasons, men's shoulders broaden with age and that particular young man in that shot is of slight build.....As for the second pic, through over exaggeration you have just destroyed and made a mockery of your own argument.

Shep is an older man....broader shoulders...and just happens to be of heavier (skeletal) build....deep chested... than the young soldier in your pic.....Shep and Kaidan int their exposed chest scenes don't really come across as steriod junkies, just deep chested men....James is a steroid junky though also a naturally large bulky man.

[StayFrosty05]

As for my opinion on the topic of female armor, make up, heels, etc...in ME...As an older female, I am well and truly over the whole 'feminist' game....The revealing outfits themselves aside from looking rather stupid....that goes for Jacob too....though Jack's an exception because it just suits her persona so well....they didn't really bother me. What does bother me are the high heels, make up and *ss shots....The heels are just too over the top idiotic for battle....Make up, why would a woman even apply make up for battle?........Jack maybe, the rest 'no'.....Am sick to death of Miranda's rear end, was just too in your face too often.

Modifié par StayFrosty05, 06 décembre 2012 - 11:55 .

[Wintermist]

And this is me (pardon for using my own image but it was fitting and doesn't really matter after all, could be anyone), not like that slim young soldier either. I am perhaps the middle ground, a more common build. And be amazed people, soldiers can be soldiers regardless of body size and mass really. There is a role for everyone, and Joker in game is a good example of that.

Though it is rather true that the stereotype today is not the same as it was then. Soldiers today are, generally, expected to be able to handle a wider range of tasks. James, I would think is not what you would expect a soldier to look like. But there are of course exceptions to the rule.

Shepard and Alenko are pretty good builds I'd say.

[Loreshield]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

I'm going to guess that you're either male or a lesbian?

Both, actually.

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Because it doesn't fit the characters?

Again, it's just LOOKS. I don't define myself through my looks - and if there's a character in a tale, ANY kind of tale, I am interested in the writing behind the characters, with which the outfit, etc. actually has to do jack ****e.

But hey, I guess that might just be me and it might just rub other people the wrong way. Different strokes and all that.

Meh.

[andy6915]

Loreshield-

Both male and lesbian? How? Lesbian means gay female. You can't be male and female at the same time... Unless you have an unusual setup down below, that is.

[Stakrin]

KBomb wrote...

Edit: nvm. Feminism is something that irks me in so many ways. I'll just back out.

I do get annoyed with hardcore feminism, but there are guys who do the same things (masculinism?) 
she made a topic asking if girls found this disrepectful or not, that bad, seeing as some of thesey girls (many,maybe) Are fan service-y.

I am a guy, but I did notice it was over the top, except Jack (I thought it fit her character) and FemShep's dress for Kasumi's LM, because she was going to a hugely criminal party, and it wasn't really bad anyway. classy, not really revealing.

[Loreshield]

andy69156915 wrote...

Loreshield-

Both male and lesbian? How? Lesbian means gay female. You can't be male and female at the same time... Unless you have an unusual setup down below, that is.

...Ugh...

I was just kidding. I kind of found it amusing that Reth assumed my, I find, clearly stated opinion on the subject matter was only the result of my personal sexual preference. If I stare at ladies in real life, I might've understood this, but we were talking about video game characters...

EDIT: Learn your english, Loreshield.

Modifié par Loreshield, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:22 .

[Zardoc]

Modifié par Zardoc, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[StayFrosty05]

Wintermist wrote...

....snip....

And this is me (pardon for using my own image but it was fitting and doesn't really matter after all, could be anyone), not like that slim young soldier either. I am perhaps the middle ground, a more common build. And be amazed people, soldiers can be soldiers regardless of body size and mass really. There is a role for everyone, and Joker in game is a good example of that.

Though it is rather true that the stereotype today is not the same as it was then. Soldiers today are, generally, expected to be able to handle a wider range of tasks. James, I would think is not what you would expect a soldier to look like. But there are of course exceptions to the rule.

Shepard and Alenko are pretty good builds I'd say.

I am glad someone else saw it too....Yup, your build is what most people would imagine for a fit male....not lean, not weighty....Shep and Kaidan are a little deeper in the chest than the average, but not by a great deal....far from the muscle bound monstrosity diplayed above.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Gotta reel in those CoD players in as many ways as possible...and it worked. Not much else to say. That's gaming. When some gaming company caters to the female gaze, rather than the male gaze...and actually makes a ton of money doing it...everyone else will copy that too. Till that you get bewbs and skanky outfits.

[LinksOcarina]

frostajulie wrote...

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Honestly, after how they treated femshep in ME3 ,the Miranda butt shots don’t seem like a big deal anymore.  Comparing them now, ME2 was a lot more respectful of female gamers because of how it treated femshep and her choices. I didn’t feel “punished” for choosing a female shepard during ME2 and she was treated the same as maleshep. That (for me) was more important than what my crew mates wore. I had every confidence that the mass effect team would continue this trend (treating femshep fairly) but then ME3 rolled around.

None of male shepard’s LI’s were admittedly forgotten about right to the last second (Thane, yup they forgot he was a LI *facepalm*) None of maleshep’s romances dumped him and got knocked up by someone else (the guys would have LOVED that “realism” I’m sure). Maleshep had an option to tell Ashley off at the hospital , femshep just accepted that she “cheated” on kaidan >_<. There are more examples but ME3 was the first bioware game that made me feel my choices were limited because I was a female character.

Quoted because this is how I feel as well. Up until ME3 I thought Bioware respected fem shep and the female gamer.

Gosh they sure proved me wrong.

I may be missing something, but how exactly did they disrespect the female Shepard or female gamers? Does it really have to do with the love interests and cosmetic changes which, to be honest, never registered for me when I played it. 

Or am I missing something else. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 07 décembre 2012 - 12:41 .

[o Ventus]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Gotta reel in those CoD players in as many ways as possible...and it worked. Not much else to say. That's gaming. When some gaming company caters to the female gaze, rather than the male gaze...and actually makes a ton of money doing it...everyone else will copy that too. Till that you get bewbs and skanky outfits.

There's a difference between feminism, and just being an ****.

[KiwiQuiche]

I admit, I was very disappointed with the physical portrayal of the women in ME2 and 3. In ME1 they didn't display their skins all over and make them dress like tarts and I really enjoyed it. One of the few games I played that didn't clothe the females like hookers. It went to smash in the sequels.

Also, I would wince in sympathy with Miranda; a wedgie that intense and constantly must be bloody uncomfortable.

[Reth Shepherd]

Loreshield wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Loreshield-

Both male and lesbian? How? Lesbian means gay female. You can't be male and female at the same time... Unless you have an unusual setup down below, that is.

...Ugh...

I was just kidding. I kind of found it amusing that Reth assumed my, I find, clearly stated opinion on the subject matter was only the result of my personal sexual preference. If I stare at ladies in real life, I might've understood this, but we were talking about video game characters...

If a CEO shows up to a meeting in a bikini, no one is going to take them seriously. If a maid shows to clean a house in the stereotypical 'French maid' outfit, it is far more likely that people are going to assume that they are a prostitute rather than a cleaner. If a soldier shows up in full makeup, high heels, and armor that shows off more than it protects; they're not going to last very long on the battlefield. ME1 Ashley Williams and Femshep are both soldiers (occupation, NOT class), and the clothing they wore looked it. ME3 Femshep looked...less so. ME3 Ashley looked like someone in a Halloween s*xy-soldier costume. Looks are not the end-all be-all of a character, but they do help support who this person is and what they're like.

And to be perfectly honest, I assume you are male. It may be stereotyping on my part, but I have male co-workers with that attitude towards "eyecandy" (which in my real life experiences is usually followed by a knowing leer, which doesn't improve my attitude towards the 'it's just looks' argument.). Do not know any women with those attitudes. (If I'm wrong about your gender, then sorry. And congrats, you are the first woman I know with that viewpoint!)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Did not like what they did to Ashley.
Have never liked heels on women warriors or soldiers. -- Love this in fantasy games. Always wondered how they managed to run through muddy areas let alone normal terrain. Please tell me why Bioware went this way with ME2 and 3?
Ah, yes, the scantily clad females. This has bugged the crap out of me for decades. Somehow that g-string was supposed to deflect swords and bullets. And Jack, put some armor on ffs. We're going into a frakkin combat zone, ...or we're going into a frakking vacuum or toxic environment. We've talked about Miranda and Samara already

femShep -- They kept paring her arms down ME1 she was okay. She got skinnier each game. ME3? How can she carry a combat rifle? Must be those cybernetic implants. She just looks weird. And her face changed. Why did they change her default face. She looked about 15 years younger in ME3, even though I always make a custom shepard.

Lack of male LI for femShep in ME3. It was possible, and I had this happen: my one and only real paragon femShep. I really tried hard with this one. With her class and difficulty I needed firepower so I sacrificed Kaidan and kept Ash so no romance in ME1. I romanced Jacob in ME2, only to find out Jacob dumped me for someone with a higher pay grade in ME3. Legion died in the SM so no peace. I chose the Quarians. I went full retard into the beam at the end. Jacob how could you! That femShep was straight. Had to role play it.

MaleShepard on the other hand had plenty to choose from.

We know the target audience.

Women make up about 40% of gamers. We are patronized.

[David7204]

I think I might as well go ahead and point out that the statistic of 40% of 'gamers' being female is almost certainly not true.

How do they get these statistics? By asking.

For females, 'playing video games' is more-or-less considered a positive trait. It's considered attractive. You go to any video on Youtube with a pretty girl talking about video games and half the comments will be variations of "Why aren't there more girls like you?"

For males, it's more or less the opposite.

Thus any survey asking people if they play video games will almost certainly be overrepresented by females and underrepresented by males.

Also, it doesn't help that most people want a big portion of players to be female, as it helps legitimize the medium as mature and developed.

Modifié par David7204, 07 décembre 2012 - 01:49 .

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

I think I might as well go ahead and point out that the statistic of 40% of 'gamers' being female is almost certainly not true.

So you've taken a world census?