395 réponses à ce sujet

[theflyingzamboni]

As a male, the increasing sexualization of the female characters as the series progressed bothered me quite a bit. It's juvenile and absurd. Combat heels are the stupidest costume feature ever created, and yet they continue to appear in media. I mean, really? That just bothers me on so many levels. I wish they would make an alternate skin pack to make the game less well-endowed. I'd actually pay for that. You hear that Bioware?! I am a man, and I would pay you to make women with smaller breasts!

[EnvyTB075]

>2012
>Taking David7204 seriously

lol

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

If the armor is molded to fit someone's chest, the armor is molded to fit someone's chest. Breasts exist. Molding the armor to fit them sounds to me like a simple and obvious option.

Take two for double stupid

[David7204]

If having armor made to fit the chest is a stupid idea, what alternatives are there that are just so much better?

[o Ventus]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

If we're at the point where people are saying males 'get to be human' in real life, then we're no longer talking about Mass Effect.

Could someone explain to me how stiff ceramic or metallic armor is supposed to work for females if not for 'boob plates'? Modern armor is no good for comparison since it's flexible fiber and cloth.

Two iron cups are not exactly practical....as someone with boobs, I can tell you would be pretty damned uncomfortable....Spread 'em and stuff them into hard cups would not work.

He has a point though. When the standard fare for armor is hard ceramic plating like in ME, what do you do? Cover everywhere [i]besides[\\i] the boobs with plate? Admittedly, not all types of armor are designed for comfort. Case in point: modern day EOD armor.

[StayFrosty05]

David7204 wrote...

If the armor is molded to fit someone's chest, the armor is molded to fit someone's chest. Breasts exist. Molding the armor to fit them sounds to me like a simple and obvious option.

I don't have breasts. I don't know. If not this, than how should inflexible armor for women be shaped? 

Not cupped, just deeper upper chest area for fit...all the way across, not two seperate cups....the cups not allowing for natural movement would bruise a womans breasts....a cross wise cavity would not.

EDIT....Reth's pictures below illustrate what i was attempting to desribe.

Modifié par StayFrosty05, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:16 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

If having armor made to fit the chest is a stupid idea, what alternatives are there that are just so much better?

Because under the armor is a mesh, cloth like, exactly the kind of armor you said was exempt from this

[Reth Shepherd]

This is Femshep's armor.
http://t3.gstatic.co...MgiFGFPOUfPL1wi

This is actual protective armor.



Do you see the difference or do I need to spell it out?

[spirosz]

I see future and modern.



*trollface*

Modifié par spirosz, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:15 .

[Reth Shepherd]

Oh, and by the way. That hard plating has to have at least SOME give or Femshep wouldn't be able to move. That armor's pretty tight, particularly in the chest and hip areas.

[David7204]

Both the underlying mesh and the outside armor have to fit the soldier. Just because the mesh can fit without being shaped differently doesn't mean the armor will.

[Steelcan]

Female space armor done better than ME, there is nothing sexy about this armor, it is all business

[David7204]

That doesn't count. None of that armor would come close to providing the protection that Shepard's armor would. It's a quarter inch of kevlar. Shepard's armor would be reinforced ceramic and a hell of a lot thicker and stiffer.

[o Ventus]

Steelcan wrote...

*snip*
Female space armor done better than ME, there is nothing sexy about this armor, it is all business

 

I dunno. Kat is hawt.

[KiwiQuiche]

Steelcan wrote...


Female space armor done better than ME, there is nothing sexy about this armor, it is all business

I approve of this armour; no nonsensical soldier sex appeal, rather "I'm here to kick the sh!t outta this threat HOORAH"

[GreatBlueHeron]

Here is one link explaining why boobage cups are impractical: l-clausewitz.livejournal.com/384382.html

Modifié par GreatBlueHeron, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[Steelcan]

o Ventus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

*snip*
Female space armor done better than ME, there is nothing sexy about this armor, it is all business

 

I dunno. Kat is hawt.

Sorry but spartans are many things, but sexually arousing is not one of them

[Wifflebottom]

I'm going to get on topic because the guys above me aren't really on topic.
I think two rules for designing a character's outfit should be: practicality based in the game's established world and a reflection the character's personality.
There's a TLDR at the bottom if ya don't like reading

Let's talk about one of bioware's female characters that I think gets it right.

Dragon Age II's Isabela. "But what? No no no she has no pants! She can't be a good example of fair female character design!" and to that I say "Isabela has no pants because Isabela needs no pants!" Isabela is a good example of a character that embraces sexuality (sexuality=/=bad design) she likes to sleep around and her outfit and it also looks like a pirate outfit so it all reflects her character fantastically! Practicality, you say? Well in the world of Dragon Age II people swing greatswords like paper clips and teleport around the battlefield and that's okay so rogues don't need much armor because they focus on evading attacks. Isabela is a great duelist so perhaps she thinks pants just get in the way.

Jack, Miranda, Samara, and Ash(ME3) break these rules.

Jack's heavily tattooed appearance match her character and give an image of a girl with a dark past but her top consisted of a single strap. In a game where you travel to hazardous planets I strap and a breathing mask covering only part of the face would be impractical and the fact that the other male characters wear helmets and quite a bit of armor shows that Jack's designs break the rules of the game's world.

Miranda almost gets away with it because a big part of her backstory is how she was engineered to be perfect and her appearance reflects that but the near-constant butt-shots while trying to have a conversation betray her. It makes me feel that the game is trying to push a shallow admiration for her based soley on her appearance while ignoring her personality. Butt-angle shots do not reflect a character's personality. I don't think the heels are as bad for her because she does strike me as a secret agent type character and heels fit that trope. (If James Bond kicks ass in tuxedos Miri can kick ass in heels) but ultimately the game's prepubescent use of camera angles weaken what the writers were trying to attempt.

Samara
A nearly thousand-year-old alien, and a member of an ancient monastic order following a strict honor code. None of that screams "cleavage window and heels" to me. She is supposed to be a mystic warrior and if the designers wanted to make her more feminine there are other ways to do that. I don't understand why character designers seem to think feminine= cleavage and heels

Ash
Possibly the worst offender. She started out as a character that is a highly trained military soldier with an entire family of military members. In ME and ME2 she looks like a soldier. Apparently between the end of 2 and the start of 3 she decides extensive cosmetic surgery, a spiffy hair style COVERING ONE EYE is appropriate because ya know she's a professional SOLDIER. The fact Kaidan didn't get the same level of insane redesigning indicates pandering to the highest degree.

Actually I'm male so I guess my opinion on the subject doesn't matter?

EDIT: Realized how long this was so
TLDR: The key to designing a character's outfit well lies in reflecting their personality and being practical in the in-game universe. Isabela of dragon age  is well designed in my opinon while Jack, Samara, Miranda, and Ashley fail.

Modifié par Wifflebottom, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:25 .

[Reth Shepherd]

David7204 wrote...

Both the underlying mesh and the outside armor have to fit the soldier. Just because the mesh can fit without being shaped differently doesn't mean the armor will.

If words won't convince you, try an experiement. Take two sandbags, roughly the size of a...what was Femshep by the end of the series? D at LEAST? Tape them to your chest in roughly the correct position. Now take two metal plates, one mimicking Femshep's chest armor and one mimicking the shape of modern-day chest armor. Strap them on and run a mile in them. At the end, see which one is digging into your body and constricting your movements. Come back and post results.

[Obvakhi]

Wifflebottom wrote...
Samara
A nearly thousand-year-old alien, and a member of an ancient monastic order following a strict honor code. None of that screams "cleavage window and heels" to me. She is supposed to be a mystic warrior and if the designers wanted to make her more feminine there are other ways to do that. I don't understand why character designers seem to think feminine= cleavage and heels

I find it funny that people complain about Samara's cleavage while Thane's chest is exposed just as much as Samara's... yet no one blinks an eye.

[StayFrosty05]

Wifflebottom wrote...

.....snip.....

Miranda almost gets away with it because a big part of her backstory is how she was engineered to be perfect and her appearance reflects that but the near-constant butt-shots while trying to have a conversation betray her. It makes me feel that the game is trying to push a shallow admiration for her based soley on her appearance while ignoring her personality. Butt-angle shots do not reflect a character's personality. I don't think the heels are as bad for her because she does strike me as a secret agent type character and heels fit that trope. (If James Bond kicks ass in tuxedos Miri can kick ass in heels) but ultimately the game's prepubescent use of camera angles weaken what the writers were trying to attempt.

.....snip.....

Go for a jog around the block in a Tux, then try the same jog in heels...and then come back and report your findings....

[Phoenix00]

You guys are all talking like women haven't been objectified in Sci-fi since...Forever. From Uhura to 7 of 9 to the entire cast of Farscape. And it's only gotten more overt. However, we still watch and play. Let's not mention that Male Shepard's likeness is that of a European print model. Would we all "buy it" if our hero looked like Lutz from 30 Rock? Archtypes exist because archtypes exist. This game is an ESCAPE from reality and once Bioware finds a market for their game where you play as "Manic pixie dreamgirl" or "that 36 year old guy who still lives in his mother's basement" they'll make it...But I certainly don't see that happening...anytime soon. That said, I was moved by my beloved Thane's death and I wept for his soul. Then I turned off my PS3 and made a sandwich.

[David7204]

As I said, modern day chest armor doesn't compare because it doesn't provide anything close to the protection that Shepard's armor would need to provide.

[spirosz]

@Wiffle, Jack only fails in my opinion till we hit space. Isn't she using a form of kinetic barries in combat (not space), regardless? She's a biotic, she keeps moving, especially - Obviously cutscenes don't = gameplay, but you get my point, right?

Modifié par spirosz, 07 décembre 2012 - 03:30 .

[o Ventus]

Obvakhi wrote...

Wifflebottom wrote...
Samara
A nearly thousand-year-old alien, and a member of an ancient monastic order following a strict honor code. None of that screams "cleavage window and heels" to me. She is supposed to be a mystic warrior and if the designers wanted to make her more feminine there are other ways to do that. I don't understand why character designers seem to think feminine= cleavage and heels

I find it funny that people complain about Samara's cleavage while Thane's chest is exposed just as much as Samara's... yet no one blinks an eye.

Or the fact that Jacob's clothes are just as tight as Miranda's. I guess sexualiZing a man is less sexist than sexualizing a woman.