230 réponses à ce sujet

[Ultimas Dragon]

I don't..it's fine as is. Period.

[billy the squid]

Annomander wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Annomander wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

Anti nerfers have plenty to say. all of it is intelligent. 

Evidence?

Oh, now I remember, there isn't a whole lot.

So rather like the nerfers then, lots to say and little of it intelligent.

Well, Feneckus' arguments aren't really readily refutable, see his thread. Come back to me once you've got some evidence against what he said.

Oh yeah, you don't.

The game has legitimate problems. What many of the suggestions do is foul up things for the infiltrators and everyone simply moves to the next OP class and round and round we go. So yes, short of re designing Tac cloak from the ground up you're stuck as you can't hit one aspect without hitting another.  Hence you're full of crap.

I see almost as much rank stupidity and vitriol on the MP forums as there was on the single player forums. I also see this more often than not coming through in a lot of posts of those advocating nerfs.

Modifié par billy the squid, 06 décembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[robarcool]

Because the cycle must continue! People adapt to TC nerf, they ripen to become more skilled and are ready to handle another TC nerf.

[BridgeBurner]

TC should be reworked in the interest of non-homogenization.

TC in its current state makes infiltrators play like soldiers with an invisibility button.

Its in the interest of balance and variety that it should be changed.

Adepts have strong biotics
Soldiers have strong weapon damage (and tech powers.... )
Engineers tend to have pretty weak tech powers
Sentinels are a hybrid of engineers and adepts, and outperform neither (as it should be)
Vanguards: can have great damage and survivability, but punishes small mistakes much more severely; exception, kroguard
Infiltrators: have weapon damage to rival that of a soldier, survivability of a vanguard with none of the risks a vanguard has to take.....

So infiltrators are just a dull easy mode blend of soldiers and vanguard, with no "high-risk" element of tied into their high-reward play style. Maybe the shadow, but still, cloak is cloak.

Modifié par Annomander, 06 décembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[robarcool]

Annomander wrote...

TC should be reworked in the interest of non-homogenization.

TC in its current state makes infiltrators play like soldiers with an invisibility button.

Its in the interest of balance and variety that it should be changed.

Adepts have strong biotics
Soldiers have strong weapon damage (and tech powers.... )
Engineers tend to have pretty weak tech powers
Sentinels are a hybrid of engineers and adepts, and outperform neither (as it should be)
Vanguards: can have great damage and survivability, but punishes small mistakes much more severely; exception, kroguard
Infiltrators: have weapon damage to rival that of a soldier, survivability of a vanguard with none of the risks a vanguard has to take.....

So infiltrators are just a dull easy mode blend of soldiers and vanguard, with no "high-risk" element of tied into their high-reward play style. Maybe the shadow, but still, cloak is cloak.

Nope. That has been known for a while I thought.

[BridgeBurner]

robarcool wrote...

Nope. That has been known for a while I thought.

Well, I can always compress the footage I have of a duo with stardusk, using the AHI, I cloak directly in view of 3 assault troopers, who proceed to ignore me and walk away.

Yeah.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I don't want anything to be nerfed in the first place. Buffing is the answer. This is not a competitive game & it is a player vs AI game. It is not DoTA 2 or CS or CoD. ME3 MP is purely for fun & entertainment. One does not simply nerf fun & entertainment.

That being said, the cloak is just fine as it is. If too many people have a problem with it just replace cloak with Assassinate & make infiltrators light melee into a cloak.

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

Lathrim wrote...

BioWare should just make a Kart Mass Effect game, to be honest. Lots of Shepards, Garruses, Liaras, Talis, et cetera racing around in Karts that represent ships of their respective races. 

red shells are OP plz BUFF

[robarcool]

Annomander wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Nope. That has been known for a while I thought.

Well, I can always compress the footage I have of a duo with stardusk, using the AHI, I cloak directly in view of 3 assault troopers, who proceed to ignore me and walk away.

Yeah.

AI can behave erratically to do that as well. I was in a game where an atlas was the last one left. I was a human soldier(last man standing) behind cover and the area had only one approach. Guess what, the atlas decided to take a walk and went away and I couldn't help a laugh. TC's so called invisibility doesn't work in many scenarios.

Modifié par robarcool, 06 décembre 2012 - 04:02 .

[Nonoru]

And here i thought it was basically useless now.

[parico]

Go ahead Nerf it I have other games I can and will play. Bioware wants us to quit playing so they can shut down the servers anyway.

[BridgeBurner]

parico wrote...

Go ahead Nerf it I have other games I can and will play. Bioware wants us to quit playing so they can shut down the servers anyway.

That's exactly the kind of reaction that is completely unwarranted.

Balance one ability and you are forced to leave and play another game, because the game is ruined.

Shows how often you play anything thats not an infiltrator if thats your mentality.

Sigh.

[ThirdWorldAssassin]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I don't want it nerfed because people do well with it. I want it FIXED because it affects other kits too much via balance changes.

Eh, the only thing I have to say to you is: HUUUUUURL!

[Tankcommander]

Infiltrators/Rogues always get this crap. There is a reason real snipers are feared....precision killing from an unknown enemy is terrifying, and unbeatable.

Good infiltrators in any game know how to use their cloak, and destroy things like they ought to, and so everyone cries nerf and it stinks, but such is how it is. Invisibility is a very useful tool, so when a player is good with it, he can do almost everyone else's job better.

I think Annomander hasn't played enough Infiltrator recently to know how worthless the cloak is now...you can activate it and pop out two seconds later and not have lost any attention, whereas in other games you can cloak right in front of human players (like in Planetside 2 where the cloak is relatively visible) and still lose them. It has degraded to a damage button now, just as I predicted it would when Bioware (in their ineptitude) nerfed the duration and effectiveness to ridiculous levels.

If they had made cloak better at hiding for decent amounts of time, and nerfed weapon damage bonuses for everything but snipers, duration would have been a much harder decision, and ME3 infiltrators would have largely carried snipers (exactly their role). As it is, everyone who plays gold/plat almost always specs damage, and uses TC as a damage bonus. The few that go duration are punished with enemies that completely ignore the cloak anyway.

I need to get some Planetside 2 videos up, to clarify my points. From afar, I can sneak around and take out 10-20 people before somebody gets tired of me and comes after me, which I can usually hide from and kill. Eventually tho, I make a mistake and get easily destroyed at close range. The other bad thing is I suck against vehicles, so anything bigger than an ATV rolling up means I gotta hide. But that is the point. Infiltrators should be hard to find, a nasty menace from afar, but easy kills up close.

I'm with Parico here. If they nerf TC again there will be no point in using it, and since my favorite class is an infiltrator, my interest in the game will decrease sharply.

Modifié par Tankcommander, 06 décembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[Kenadian]

Annomander wrote...

TC should be reworked in the interest of non-homogenization.

TC in its current state makes infiltrators play like soldiers with an invisibility button.

Its in the interest of balance and variety that it should be changed.

Adepts have strong biotics
Soldiers have strong weapon damage (and tech powers.... )
Engineers tend to have pretty weak tech powers
Sentinels are a hybrid of engineers and adepts, and outperform neither (as it should be)
Vanguards: can have great damage and survivability, but punishes small mistakes much more severely; exception, kroguard
Infiltrators: have weapon damage to rival that of a soldier, survivability of a vanguard with none of the risks a vanguard has to take.....

So infiltrators are just a dull easy mode blend of soldiers and vanguard, with no "high-risk" element of tied into their high-reward play style. Maybe the shadow, but still, cloak is cloak.

I keep saying this, no, it doesn't. The only infiltrators with this are the TGI and arguably the SI, but that is dependent on enemies having barriers/shields.

[Crimson Vanguard]

robarcool wrote...

Because the cycle must continue! People adapt to TC nerf, they ripen to become more skilled and are ready to handle another TC nerf.

Then the cycle broke. People fed up with bull**** and stop playing

[robarcool]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Because the cycle must continue! People adapt to TC nerf, they ripen to become more skilled and are ready to handle another TC nerf.

Then the cycle broke. People fed up with bull**** and stop playing

Like SP!

[Crimson Vanguard]

robarcool wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Because the cycle must continue! People adapt to TC nerf, they ripen to become more skilled and are ready to handle another TC nerf.

Then the cycle broke. People fed up with bull**** and stop playing

Like SP!

Or they will keep refusing the ugly truth and keep playing

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Because I want to live long enough to be there when the community cuts the heads off several of the loudest nerf-screamers and mounts them on pikes as a warning to the next ten generations of BSN posters that some actions come with too high a price. I want to look up into their lifeless eyes, and wave, like this.

* waves*

Can you and your associates arrange that for me, OP?

[doozerdude]

JohnShades wrote...

Because I want the forums to explode?

[RaueDrakenhaart]

Lathrim wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I don't want it nerfed because people do well with it. I want it FIXED because it affects other kits too much via balance changes.

The stim pack thing wasn't for Tactical Cloak, was because giving +4K of shields was insane.

Hunter Mode nerf.

You shut your **** mouth. The Hunter Mode nerf was wrong, period. They nerfed Tactical Cloak, then Hunter Mode, then The Krysae twice in order to remove arguably the most OP thing that has touched this multiplayer. They were reacting poorly to a real problem, and Hunter Mode wasn't the problem, it just fed the problems: Tactical Cloak's then insane Damage bonus, and the Krysae's insanity alltogether. 

On a sub-comment, if they re-buff the Krysae, I believe it should only be the RoF, and putting it back to original specs. It's damage is actually right in a sweet spot for what it's capable of, and with the normal RoF, it will be able to fill it's niche. End sub-comment.

So no, don't mention Hunter Mode to me. Hunter Mode and Stim Packs are on two different levels: One gives you a lot of static buffs at the cost of sheilds, and the other Restores your sheilds by 4k, AND buffed your damage by a significant amount, AND has no cooldown, AND are trivial to replenish. It effects the Havok more than the Ghost because the Havok is a Vanguard, and is up in people's faces. The Ghost has Tactical Cloak, which in combination with a panic button like Stim Packs, causes you to be the most survivable character in the game. That being said, the Stim Pack Nerf was not as bad as I expected, and whiners are being weiners about it. Man up and grow a quad.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Happy Shepard wrote...

My stuff gets nerfed.

Why not your stuff?

This is an outrage!

Can't tell if serious, but seriously, I agree.  I'm tired of characters I like getting nerfed that ARE NOT OP, and watching an entire OP class go untouched, save for a few insignificant cosmetic changes.  

[Kalas Magnus]

Mindfane wrote...

The deepest places in hell are reserved for those who cry for TC nerf ..oh and Harrier nerf.

So long as they leave my hurricane alone I'll be happy.

[joker_jack]

In the end if Bioware continues to want some kind of cash flow from this mp, they will decide what will benefit their bottom line. Given how touchy the tc subject, Bioware is going to leave this one be.

As the purported 0.01% of the mp thinks they know how to balance the game, the truth it doesn't matter what the ****** they think. It comes down really to what sections of the consumer base is most profitable.

Biggest nerf in the game's history illustrates how much the financial side of enter into the equation. Krysae made the game easy enough to surpass having to use real money to buy packs with. Same with the destroyer in the case of the missile glitch. In fact given with that kit is the only one the the glitch is infinite with, I would not be surprised if we see a huge nerf big enough to make the kit unusable.

Given the mp is very much in it's twilight, It's doesn't make financial sense to patch the issues. So if you can hot fix the problem threw a massive balance change then that will be the most cost effective route.

It's not about balance this late in the game. It's all about the almighty bottom green line.

[WizeMan305]

You know just had a thought occur, what if all Infiltrators worked sort of like the Huntress I mean she is strong but not OP. Not sure how to translate that into the other Infiltrators since they are more weapons based. Taking away from their weapon damage would cripple the class because for the most part they would have nothing to stand on.

At this point its a bit to late to rework the whole class, and nerfing the duration would only render heavy weapons obsolete, and nerfing damage would render them gimped because most infiltrators lack power diversity. I honestly think at this point it should be left where it is, classes that are released with power that are shared by infiltrators should be given a different evolution tree to avoid things like hunter mode, sabotage, and now stim packs.