230 réponses à ce sujet

[UKStory135]

It's not like TC can instantly replenish your shield, instantly reloaded your gun, give you a 70% damage boost for the next three Claymore shots, and then only have a 2.73 second cooldown. A power like that would by way OP compared to Tactical Cloak's bonuses.

[CronicleChicken]

RedJohn wrote...

Because seriously, have you realised that some players will not suffer if it is nerfed because some players just can do wonders with any kit, and the ones that will suffer this will be the average players.


So, why nerf it if it is balanced right now?

What do you want?, a decrease in the duration from 5 to 3 seconds and damage only to 10% ?


Come on people, be smart!, you are asking a nerf that will affect the big mayority of the player base and you probably ask for that nerf because X player ( who is awesome no matter what ) can do wonders with a kit.



The funny thing is, people start demanding a nerf idioticaly then when the nerd arrives they cry for weeks.... and even months, so, think carefuly before asking for something.

Red John, I love watching yours and Lord Sirian's videos. I just wanna say that TC is very balanced but I was wondering which kit you find the most difficult to play?

[unclemonster]

Feneckus wrote...


You go fishing with a friend.

Your friend pulls out a grenade and kills all the fish in the lake.

I guess you'd be ok with it ?

Let's Convert this to proper context for our fellow ME3 forum members:
In " the mass effect world," I get all upset and butthurt when an infiltrator outscores me?
Silly isn't it?
While you may be a great ME3 player, you have alot to learn...

Modifié par unclemonster, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:36 .

[ultima2006]

Annomander wrote...

Redjohn, I think you miss the point.

We need to start campaigning for krogan melee buffs!

Too long have we been out-melee'd by asari and geth, it is time, brothers and sisters of tuchanka, to take our rightful place as KINGS of the melee universe!

Agreed, we need a krogan infiltrator!

[bogsters23]

i agree with OP. why cry TC nerf now. it has always been there since the beginning of the game. i do not notice if i see a lot of infiltrators in pugs in ps3. i usually play with a group of friends it did not bother me that it is a good class or OP. i do not use it all the time i rotate classes and i favor grenadier classes.

i think only a minority wants it to be balanced. imo they should just leave it alone. why weaken your arsenal in a co-op game. there are a lot of ways to beat this game.

Modifié par bogsters23, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:38 .

[BridgeBurner]

unclemonster wrote...

Feneckus wrote...


You go fishing with a friend.

Your friend pulls out a grenade and kills all the fish in the lake.

I guess you'd be ok with it ?

Let's Convert this to proper context for our fellow ME3 forum members:
In " the mass effect world," I get all upset and butthurt when an infiltrator outscores me?
Silly isn't it?
While you may be a great ME3 player, you have alot to learn...

You didn't understand anything of what he's saying. Sure, maybe stentron, or jay might outscore feneckus on a regular basis, I doubt anyone else would though.

Feneckus was not saying he directly wanted it nerfed, he siad he wanted it CHANGED so that it would no longer be as powerful as it is; even simply removing bonus power and forcing infiltrators to actually care about cooldowns would work.

When infiltrators are better at melee than a krogan, that's a problem

when infiltrators can complete with soldiers in terms of weapon damage, and have the added survivability of cloak (that many people on the forum love to play down, but the fact is its a huge asset: try playing krogan melee with a team of 3 infiltrators and you'll see what I mean: enjoy having everyone dump aggro onto you constantly).

When infiltrators are as tough as kroguards, can outdps soldiers and have an on-demand invincibility frame ability which grants them a damage boost, and a ridiculous pile of shields, then that is a problem.

When bioware voluntarily reduces the effectiveness of other kits; geth engineer, havoc, etc on the basis of the fact that another class that shared their powers made them "overpowered" you have a problem.

I'm not citing any easy solutions, but people who claim there is no problem are blinded by their own love for a class that causes more problems than it solves.

Modifié par Annomander, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[RedJohn]

CronicleChicken wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Because seriously, have you realised that some players will not suffer if it is nerfed because some players just can do wonders with any kit, and the ones that will suffer this will be the average players.


So, why nerf it if it is balanced right now?

What do you want?, a decrease in the duration from 5 to 3 seconds and damage only to 10% ?


Come on people, be smart!, you are asking a nerf that will affect the big mayority of the player base and you probably ask for that nerf because X player ( who is awesome no matter what ) can do wonders with a kit.



The funny thing is, people start demanding a nerf idioticaly then when the nerd arrives they cry for weeks.... and even months, so, think carefuly before asking for something.

Red John, I love watching yours and Lord Sirian's videos. I just wanna say that TC is very balanced but I was wondering which kit you find the most difficult to play?

none of them are really difficult, but if you talk about which one makes me waste more time finding another strategies well, i'd say Batarian Sentinel, also my most hated character ( and the only one )

[MajorStupidity]

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

Feneckus wrote...


You go fishing with a friend.

Your friend pulls out a grenade and kills all the fish in the lake.

I guess you'd be ok with it ?

Let's Convert this to proper context for our fellow ME3 forum members:
In " the mass effect world," I get all upset and butthurt when an infiltrator outscores me?
Silly isn't it?
While you may be a great ME3 player, you have alot to learn...

You didn't understand anything of what he's saying. Sure, maybe stentron, or jay might outscore feneckus on a regular basis, I doubt anyone else would though.

Feneckus was not saying he directly wanted it nerfed, he siad he wanted it CHANGED so that it would no longer be as powerful as it is; even simply removing bonus power and forcing infiltrators to actually care about cooldowns would work.

When infiltrators are better at melee than a krogan, that's a problem

when infiltrators can complete with soldiers in terms of weapon damage, and have the added survivability of cloak (that many people on the forum love to play down, but the fact is its a huge asset: try playing krogan melee with a team of 3 infiltrators and you'll see what I mean: enjoy having every dump aggro onto you constantly).

When infiltrators are as tough as kroguards, can outdps soldiers and have an on demand invincility frame ability which grants them a damage boost, and a ridiculous pile of shields, then that is a problem.

When bioware voluntarily reduces the effectiveness of other kits; geth engineer, havoc, etc on the basis of the fact that another class that shared their powers made them "overpowered" you have a problem.

I'm not citing any easy solutions, but people who claim there is no problem as blinded by their own love for a class that causes more problems than it solves.

I do agree cooldown should matter to infiltrators. Right now they can safely ignore cooldown unless it is something absolutely ridiculous.

[CronicleChicken]

RedJohn wrote...

none of them are really difficult, but if you talk about which one makes me waste more time finding another strategies well, i'd say Batarian Sentinel, also my most hated character ( and the only one )

Is it the cooldown of powers or the synergy of powers?

[unclemonster]

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

Feneckus wrote...


You go fishing with a friend.

Your friend pulls out a grenade and kills all the fish in the lake.

I guess you'd be ok with it ?

Let's Convert this to proper context for our fellow ME3 forum members:
In " the mass effect world," I get all upset and butthurt when an infiltrator outscores me?
Silly isn't it?
While you may be a great ME3 player, you have alot to learn...

You didn't understand anything of what he's saying. Sure, maybe stentron, or jay might outscore feneckus on a regular basis, I doubt anyone else would though.

Feneckus was not saying he directly wanted it nerfed, he siad he wanted it CHANGED so that it would no longer be as powerful as it is; even simply removing bonus power and forcing infiltrators to actually care about cooldowns would work.

When infiltrators are better at melee than a krogan, that's a problem

when infiltrators can complete with soldiers in terms of weapon damage, and have the added survivability of cloak (that many people on the forum love to play down, but the fact is its a huge asset: try playing krogan melee with a team of 3 infiltrators and you'll see what I mean: enjoy having every dump aggro onto you constantly).

When infiltrators are as tough as kroguards, can outdps soldiers and have an on-demand invincibility frame ability which grants them a damage boost, and a ridiculous pile of shields, then that is a problem.

When bioware voluntarily reduces the effectiveness of other kits; geth engineer, havoc, etc on the basis of the fact that another class that shared their powers made them "overpowered" you have a problem.

I'm not citing any easy solutions, but people who claim there is no problem as blinded by their own love for a class that causes more problems than it solves.

I completely understand what was said. I've read through the 27 page thread and many other postings.
What the "ME3 elites" need to realize is this, they are not the only people playing this game right now.
Certain people expect the game to be catered to their liking.
There are new players joining everyday with the wii-u and trilogy releases. We need to consider these people when ranting. They have empty manifests and are entering a much tougher game than the one we started with.
I appreciate great players, but take a step back and think of the bigger picture.
The game doesn't revolve around this forum's players and I, for one, would like the game to continue with new dlc and patches. It won't happen if noobs can't also join in on the fun.

Modifié par unclemonster, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:55 .

[Muhkida]

The only way we can see some "proper" TC balancing is by patching.... as in, each individual infiltrator kit is going to need their own unique TC power tree. That's the only solution IMO.

Modifié par Muhkida, 06 décembre 2012 - 07:53 .

[CronicleChicken]

RedJohn wrote...

none of them are really difficult, but if you talk about which one makes me waste more time finding another strategies well, i'd say Batarian Sentinel, also my most hated character ( and the only one )

Is it the cooldown of powers or the synergy of powers?

[january42]

I do agree cooldown should matter to infiltrators. Right now they can safely ignore cooldown unless it is something absolutely ridiculous.

That would totally screw the weapon balance unfortunatly, as weapon utility and weight don't corrolate all that well right now.


TC isn't the problem. The problem is, many of the kits have incredibly dumb power sets that don't work together.   Which makes a poor char.  Most of the powers are balanced by themselves.

A good combo makes a good charachter, a bad combo makes a bad one. And there are a few powers that do just kinda suck or are noticably weaker(Havok Strike is the obvious one, a few others).

[RedJohn]

CronicleChicken wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

none of them are really difficult, but if you talk about which one makes me waste more time finding another strategies well, i'd say Batarian Sentinel, also my most hated character ( and the only one )

Is it the cooldown of powers or the synergy of powers?

the skill set is totally out of my style, I can do very well with it, but i just don't like it.

[Deuces Apples]

Sorry for the double post, I'm on my IPad.

@Annomander I think you should relax, if your hate for a class in a game makes you start cussing at people then you should probably take a break from the game. And definitely step away from the forums.

You keep defending Fenuckus and saying everything that he thinks by saying he does not care about being out scored. Then you said he's mad at the fact that everything gets nerfed because of infiltrators.

So my question to you or Fenuckus' thoughts (i'm trying not to laugh) is where is your proof that the devs nerfed a class because of another? Is there an actual quote from them that says this?

[CronicleChicken]

january42 wrote...

I do agree cooldown should matter to infiltrators. Right now they can safely ignore cooldown unless it is something absolutely ridiculous.

That would totally screw the weapon balance unfortunatly, as weapon utility and weight don't corrolate all that well right now.


TC isn't the problem. The problem is, many of the kits have incredibly dumb power sets that don't work together.   Which makes a poor char.  Most of the powers are balanced by themselves.

A good combo makes a good charachter, a bad combo makes a bad one. And there are a few powers that do just kinda suck or are noticably weaker(Havok Strike is the obvious one, a few others).

yeah... what they did to my Havoc Soldier made me cry. My damage on my stimpacks no longer allow me to take the silver guns into Platinum and hold my own weight.  

[BridgeBurner]

unclemonster wrote...

There are new players joining everyday with the wii-u and trilogy releases. We need to consider these people when ranting. They have empty manifests and are entering a much tougher game than the one we started with.
I appreciate great players, but take a step back and think of the bigger picture.
The game doesn't revolve around this forum's players and I, for one, would like the game to continue with new dlc and patches. It won't happen if noobs can't also join in on the fun.

So your entire argument basically says, infiltrator is a newbie crutch class and that it shouldn't be changed....? That's what I understood from reading your post

New players aren't forced to play infiltrators, there are a whole load of other classes, oh, and there's bronze difficulty which is a snooze.

[RedJohn]

Also, Tactical Cloak is not broken as many think.

because, an infiltrator hasn't been able to do this.

[Abraham_uk]

ultima2006 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Redjohn, I think you miss the point.

We need to start campaigning for krogan melee buffs!

Too long have we been out-melee'd by asari and geth, it is time, brothers and sisters of tuchanka, to take our rightful place as KINGS of the melee universe!

Agreed, we need a krogan infiltrator!

I had a concept for a Krogan Infiltrator.

Believe it or not, Krogans have scouts. Their role is to move ahead and report the positionings of enemies.

So for the Krogan Scout replace the tactical cloak with a radar.
The whole team will be able to see the Krogan's raidar.

In addition the raidar will give the Krogan personal weapon damage boost.
The Krogan will have tactical scan and a recon mine.


This infiltrator is not so much about stealth but helping their squad mates to infiltrate strongholds with brute force. You see. Infiltration isn't always about stealth. Krogans can be infiltrators. Just not the stealthy kind.

[BridgeBurner]

RedJohn wrote...

Also, Tactical Cloak is not broken as many think.

because, an infiltrator hasn't been able to do this.

Well, RJ, I'm all for nerfing the kroguard too, about damn time as well.

25% barrier restore on biotic charge, 50% with the rank 6 evolution.

Krogan aren't supposed to be strong biotics either.

Gratz on the speedrun solo as well RJ.

[Xaijin]

Krogan aren't supposed to be strong biotics either.

Yes they are, as strong or stronger than Asari of equivalent age, which only mitigated by rarity. Codex much. ME2 Bloodpack Warlord warp much.

[Operator m1]

[quote]CronicleChicken wrote...

[quote]january42 wrote...

[quote]
I do agree cooldown should matter to infiltrators. Right now they can safely ignore cooldown unless it is something absolutely ridiculous.

[/quote]

That would totally screw the weapon balance unfortunatly, as weapon utility and weight don't corrolate all that well right now.


TC isn't the problem. The problem is, many of the kits have incredibly dumb power sets that don't work together.   Which makes a poor char.  Most of the powers are balanced by themselves.

A good combo makes a good charachter, a bad combo makes a bad one. And there are a few powers that do just kinda suck or are noticably weaker(Havok Strike is the obvious one, a few others).


[/quote]

yeah... what they did to my Havoc Soldier made me cry. My damage on my stimpacks no longer allow me to take the silver guns into Platinum and hold my own weight.  

[/quote]

Can't blame the TGI for the damage bonuses on stimpack getting nerfed. They had a unique rank 6 cloak evo that couldave been hit, but bioware chose to make offensive stims less useful for both kits. If the TGI's damage alone was the problem, they didn't need to hit the stimpack bonus damage at all.



Btw:

[quote]Operator m1 wrote...

TC shouldn't be discussed right now because this community will likely never come up with TC changes that won't disproportionately hurt different infiltrators considering all of them share the same cloak coding except the TGI, and huntress, while each one has different potential playstyles as we see in the QFI melee build, QMI grenadier, SI sniper, GI+anything, the N7 shadow melee ninja, etc...[/quote][/quote]
[/quote]

Modifié par Operator m1, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[RedJohn]

Annomander wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Also, Tactical Cloak is not broken as many think.

because, an infiltrator hasn't been able to do this.

Well, RJ, I'm all for nerfing the kroguard too, about damn time as well.

25% barrier restore on biotic charge, 50% with the rank 6 evolution.

Krogan aren't supposed to be strong biotics either.

Gratz on the speedrun solo as well RJ.

Thanks.


But is not only Krogan Vanguard, other underrate characters like Slayer can do the same, my fastest slayer solo is 16:12, and it isn't as tank as Krogan.

What I want to say is, Infiltrators are good yes, they have their advantages, but none of them are as broken as people think, and only good players like Stentron ( the best GI user i've ever seen ) could reach 16:15 or 16:20 with his GI + Talon, so I think people should stop calling for a nerf for something that is balanced.

[unclemonster]

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

There are new players joining everyday with the wii-u and trilogy releases. We need to consider these people when ranting. They have empty manifests and are entering a much tougher game than the one we started with.
I appreciate great players, but take a step back and think of the bigger picture.
The game doesn't revolve around this forum's players and I, for one, would like the game to continue with new dlc and patches. It won't happen if noobs can't also join in on the fun.

So your entire argument basically says, infiltrator is a newbie crutch class and that it shouldn't be changed....? That's what I understood from reading your post

New players aren't forced to play infiltrators, there are a whole load of other classes, oh, and there's bronze difficulty which is a snooze.

Not at all. I'm saying nerfing in general is hurting noobs and the longevity of the game itself.
Twist my words however you'd like to.
Also, are you Feneckus personal fanboy or what?
You are answering for his responses and it is EXTREMELY comical to say the least.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Modifié par unclemonster, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[Origin]

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

Feneckus wrote...


You go fishing with a friend.

Your friend pulls out a grenade and kills all the fish in the lake.

I guess you'd be ok with it ?

Let's Convert this to proper context for our fellow ME3 forum members:
In " the mass effect world," I get all upset and butthurt when an infiltrator outscores me?
Silly isn't it?
While you may be a great ME3 player, you have alot to learn...

You didn't understand anything of what he's saying. Sure, maybe stentron, or jay might outscore feneckus on a regular basis, I doubt anyone else would though.

Feneckus was not saying he directly wanted it nerfed, he siad he wanted it CHANGED so that it would no longer be as powerful as it is; even simply removing bonus power and forcing infiltrators to actually care about cooldowns would work.

When infiltrators are better at melee than a krogan, that's a problem

when infiltrators can complete with soldiers in terms of weapon damage, and have the added survivability of cloak (that many people on the forum love to play down, but the fact is its a huge asset: try playing krogan melee with a team of 3 infiltrators and you'll see what I mean: enjoy having everyone dump aggro onto you constantly).

When infiltrators are as tough as kroguards, can outdps soldiers and have an on-demand invincibility frame ability which grants them a damage boost, and a ridiculous pile of shields, then that is a problem.

When bioware voluntarily reduces the effectiveness of other kits; geth engineer, havoc, etc on the basis of the fact that another class that shared their powers made them "overpowered" you have a problem.

I'm not citing any easy solutions, but people who claim there is no problem are blinded by their own love for a class that causes more problems than it solves.

Yes, if you are used to play first person shooter games, indeed, the infiltrator could seems OP. The fact is, ME trilogy is RPG and this is totaly different from a shooter. If you want to understand, you have to refer to D&D (Dungeon & Dragons) Thief or Rogue class which correspond to the infiltrator in ME universe:
"The rogue is stealthy and dextrous, and currently the only official base class from the Player's Handbook capable of finding and disarming many traps and picking locks. The rogue also has the ability to "sneak attack" ("backstab" in previous editions) enemies who are caught off-guard or taken by surprise, inflicting extra damage." (http://en.wikipedia....geons_&_Dragons)

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses. A fighter and a rogue has different roles and different way of playing.
This is why all this nerfing madness is wrong. Stop comparing the infiltrators with the soldier class, learn a bit about D&D and the things will start making sense.

Bioware has an exceptional history in the RPG universe. They created really great games. And they did as well with ME games. Again, ME games are RPG, not shooters.