230 réponses à ce sujet

[BridgeBurner]

unclemonster wrote...
Something unimportant and irrelevant.

No, I play with Feneckus a lot, and I respect him.

I don't respect retards on the BSN who's best arguement for something not being balanced is "noobs like me use it all teh tiem".

Perhaps the solution is for people to become BETTER, not for the game to stay EASY.

Of course you no doubt have something misinformed and inconsequential which you'll respond to this with, no doubt with another 20 smilies; to show how little substance your post contains.

[Deuces Apples]

Annomander wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Also, Tactical Cloak is not broken as many think.

because, an infiltrator hasn't been able to do this.



Well, RJ, I'm all for nerfing the kroguard too, about damn time as well.

25% barrier restore on biotic charge, 50% with the rank 6 evolution.

Krogan aren't supposed to be strong biotics either.

Gratz on the speedrun solo as well RJ.



Thanks.


But is not only Krogan Vanguard, other underrate characters like Slayer can do the same, my fastest slayer solo is 16:12, and it isn't as tank as Krogan.

What I want to say is, Infiltrators are good yes, they have their advantages, but none of them are as broken as people think, and only good players like Stentron ( the best GI user i've ever seen ) could reach 16:15 or 16:20 with his GI + Talon, so I think people should stop calling for a nerf for something that is balanced.


Well said RedJohn, end of thread.

[Mookiemook85]

the discussions on here are hilarious because people here act as if 95% of pugs are not very poor players that need classes like GI and ghost infiltrators in order to do well/ contribute to the team winning. Also they are crying about nerfs to stimpacks because they hurt another character not the ghost....and yet forget that nerfing all tactical cloak will make the human infl, quarian female, and shadow complete garbage classes. Basically crying that inflitrators are noobish ( which they are somewhat) but standing up for 4000 insta shield stimpacks and the weightless acoltye lma...also the weapons that got nerfed and stimpacks and huntermode all got nerfed because the gi and ghost are OP and have THREE great powers together....bioware messed up by not specifically targeting those classes but they also should not gimp the other inflitrators that arent as good as those two. 

Modifié par Mookiemook85, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[Muhkida]

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

There are new players joining everyday with the wii-u and trilogy releases. We need to consider these people when ranting. They have empty manifests and are entering a much tougher game than the one we started with.
I appreciate great players, but take a step back and think of the bigger picture.
The game doesn't revolve around this forum's players and I, for one, would like the game to continue with new dlc and patches. It won't happen if noobs can't also join in on the fun.

So your entire argument basically says, infiltrator is a newbie crutch class and that it shouldn't be changed....? That's what I understood from reading your post

New players aren't forced to play infiltrators, there are a whole load of other classes, oh, and there's bronze difficulty which is a snooze.

A few weeks ago I probably wouldn't have a problem with the bolded part of your comment, but now I would say that's a pretty damn shortsighted statement.  My brother just bought the ME Trilogy pack, and he's got a lot to deal with because he's just starting from scratch.  Having to play against Collectors/Geth with barely a manifest is a struggle for him.  And no, he doesn't suck playing FPS.  I'd wager he'd make all you players ride his rockets in Quake.

This game has a deeper learning curve than you think.  Just because you're wrecking house with anything and everything as you please in this game, doesn't mean everyone else is doing the same....especially ppl who are new to this game.

Modifié par Muhkida, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:30 .

[capn233]

Mookiemook85 wrote...

the discussions on here are hilarious because people here act as if 95% of pugs are not very poor players that need classes like GI and ghost infiltrators in order to do well/ contribute to the team winning. Also they are crying about nerfs to stimpacks because they hurt another character not the ghost....and yet forget that nerfing all tactical cloak will make the human infl, quarian female, and shadow complete garbage classes. Basically crying that inflitrators are noobish ( which they are somewhat) but standing up for 4000 insta shield stimpacks and the weightless acoltye lmao

Is that because it is impossible to buff Cryo Blast, Sticky Grenades and Sabotage?

Shadow Strike gets bonuses from everywhere.  I am fairly sure you get a 5% bonus to SS damage for each appearance setting you change...

[cgtrfghj7]

The only change I think that makes sense would be to remove the scaling of the cooldown with its usage and to remove the overlap of cooldown when cloak is broken by a power.

This way it fits the name a bit more; players have to actually think (just a bit more) before using it OR using it more tactically.

[GunWraith]

I don't.

[Mookiemook85]

Does this game consist of endless noobs running around dominating games with every infliltrator...quarian infltrators and humans, salarian, and the shadow? are they completely gamebreaking classes ? or are most people in gold/platinum tryhards only using the GI  and Ghost since they have 3 great powers together? was the piranha and kysae nerfed because anyone was overusing it on any other class other than the GI? only the GI and ghost are overused and op, tweak those characters not the entire infli class.

Modifié par Mookiemook85, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[Tallgeese_VII]

People asking for nerf to stop nerf are hopeless.
Infiltrators are good in both objective and combat. Bit the don't make other kits obsolete. TC is not automatic win button either.

[unclemonster]

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...
Something unimportant and irrelevant.

No, I play with Feneckus a lot, and I respect him.

I don't respect retards on the BSN who's best arguement for something not being balanced is "noobs like me use it all teh tiem".

Perhaps the solution is for people to become BETTER, not for the game to stay EASY.

Of course you no doubt have something misinformed and inconsequential which you'll respond to this with, no doubt with another 20 smilies; to show how little substance your post contains.

Seems like more than respect to me...
I respect alot of people and you don't see me running around defending their posts...
It just makes you look silly.

I take offense to your use of the word "retards" as I donate time and money to help the mentally challenged.
VERY, VERY classLESS. You should also learn how to spell before insulting others.

That is all.

Modifié par unclemonster, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:40 .

[unclemonster]

Aekshin wrote...

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

Feneckus wrote...


You go fishing with a friend.

Your friend pulls out a grenade and kills all the fish in the lake.

I guess you'd be ok with it ?

Let's Convert this to proper context for our fellow ME3 forum members:
In " the mass effect world," I get all upset and butthurt when an infiltrator outscores me?
Silly isn't it?
While you may be a great ME3 player, you have alot to learn...

You didn't understand anything of what he's saying. Sure, maybe stentron, or jay might outscore feneckus on a regular basis, I doubt anyone else would though.

Feneckus was not saying he directly wanted it nerfed, he siad he wanted it CHANGED so that it would no longer be as powerful as it is; even simply removing bonus power and forcing infiltrators to actually care about cooldowns would work.

When infiltrators are better at melee than a krogan, that's a problem

when infiltrators can complete with soldiers in terms of weapon damage, and have the added survivability of cloak (that many people on the forum love to play down, but the fact is its a huge asset: try playing krogan melee with a team of 3 infiltrators and you'll see what I mean: enjoy having everyone dump aggro onto you constantly).

When infiltrators are as tough as kroguards, can outdps soldiers and have an on-demand invincibility frame ability which grants them a damage boost, and a ridiculous pile of shields, then that is a problem.

When bioware voluntarily reduces the effectiveness of other kits; geth engineer, havoc, etc on the basis of the fact that another class that shared their powers made them "overpowered" you have a problem.

I'm not citing any easy solutions, but people who claim there is no problem are blinded by their own love for a class that causes more problems than it solves.

Yes, if you are used to play first person shooter games, indeed, the infiltrator could seems OP. The fact is, ME trilogy is RPG and this is totaly different from a shooter. If you want to understand, you have to refer to D&D (Dungeon & Dragons) Thief or Rogue class which correspond to the infiltrator in ME universe:
"The rogue is stealthy and dextrous, and currently the only official base class from the Player's Handbook capable of finding and disarming many traps and picking locks. The rogue also has the ability to "sneak attack" ("backstab" in previous editions) enemies who are caught off-guard or taken by surprise, inflicting extra damage." (http://en.wikipedia....geons_&_Dragons)

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses. A fighter and a rogue has different roles and different way of playing.
This is why all this nerfing madness is wrong. Stop comparing the infiltrators with the soldier class, learn a bit about D&D and the things will start making sense.

Bioware has an exceptional history in the RPG universe. They created really great games. And they did as well with ME games. Again, ME games are RPG, not shooters.

Very well written post!

[obibenjedi]

I think that the newer characters introduced in MP need nerfing as the early ones you get like human soldiers, asari adept, human infiltrator don't compare to ex Cerberus troops etc.

[Feneckus]

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

[unclemonster]

Muhkida wrote...

Annomander wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

There are new players joining everyday with the wii-u and trilogy releases. We need to consider these people when ranting. They have empty manifests and are entering a much tougher game than the one we started with.
I appreciate great players, but take a step back and think of the bigger picture.
The game doesn't revolve around this forum's players and I, for one, would like the game to continue with new dlc and patches. It won't happen if noobs can't also join in on the fun.

So your entire argument basically says, infiltrator is a newbie crutch class and that it shouldn't be changed....? That's what I understood from reading your post

New players aren't forced to play infiltrators, there are a whole load of other classes, oh, and there's bronze difficulty which is a snooze.

A few weeks ago I probably wouldn't have a problem with the bolded part of your comment, but now I would say that's a pretty damn shortsighted statement.  My brother just bought the ME Trilogy pack, and he's got a lot to deal with because he's just starting from scratch.  Having to play against Collectors/Geth with barely a manifest is a struggle for him.  And no, he doesn't suck playing FPS.  I'd wager he'd make all you players ride his rockets in Quake.

This game has a deeper learning curve than you think.  Just because you're wrecking house with anything and everything as you please in this game, doesn't mean everyone else is doing the same....especially ppl who are new to this game.

Thank you, EXCELLENT POST!!
I just bought the game for a few people going through the same thing.

[Deuces Apples]

You know what? This is a never ending argument. No one can be right and no one can be wrong, it's all perspective.

Nerfing and anti nerfing threads brings out the worst in people on BSN.

[capn233]

Feneckus wrote...

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

Durability was the only weakness, until the Ghost.

[cgtrfghj7]

Deuces Apples wrote...

You know what? This is a never ending argument. No one can be right and no one can be wrong, it's all perspective.

Nerfing and anti nerfing threads brings out the worst in people on BSN.

Not only that but too much bias in the arguments.

-using personal experience or atleast weighting it over actual facts (which we will never have)

-attacking the person instead of the argument (**especially this)

-changing goalposts

-really bad analogies

[coolmandool]

Wow. Tactical cloak is back on as the the bsn angry mob lynch of the week?

I'm surprised because while I am not an elite player, I do play a fair bit (gold) and I think tac cloak is honestly in a good place right now.

From what I've read the anger is focused on the ghost and the gi. Basically these guys are so powerful that they have caused certain powers that live on other classes to be nerfed.

But is the logical answer really to nerf tactical cloak generally? The real solution here is for bioware to have a more granular means of adjusting powers on specific classes. Agreed the ghost is super good and stimpacks shouldn't have hit the havoc in the same way, but the solution here is not to hit tac cloak for all infiltrators.

Tac cloak right now works because
It's a good power but offers a real choice at evo 4 and arguably 6.
It does dump aggro, but infiltrators don't have the damage reduction or tankiness of other classes
It gives great dps, but in practice, with the buffs to fire and ice explosions, most classes have great dps
Cloak gives quick recharge on powers if you carry a heavy weapon but ONLY if you are using it as tactical damage boost and hence sacrificing survivability for dps.

Lets step back a sec and look at actually what is going on in the real world of pugs. I am certain since the great tac cloak nerf, infiltrator numbers have come down. Since the retaliation changes i see loads of soldiers engineers and sentinels.

Lets face it, if there are easy win button classes or weapons, the player base data usually reflects this drastically. The acolyte, for example, is currently on 2 out of 4 pug players in games i have played. In my experience, we are no longer in the space where every game had at least one infiltrator.

pug lobbies are never full of geth infiltrators because honestly, their low health, means that they actually require some skill to be used well. This is my experience anyway - albeit this is a limited data set.

In short, nerfing tac cloak is knee jerk reaction. The solution is to nerf the ghost not tac cloak. Nerfing tac cloak will simply make infiltrators into an highly inaccessible class that elite players use to stroke their egos because they can still make it sing - to the detriment of the rest of the player base.

Modifié par coolmandool, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:50 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

They don't even lack AoE damage - Arc Grenade, Proxy Mine, Electric Slash,  etc.

[unclemonster]

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

Feneckus...the real problem is that you are too good...
so you have trouble seeing things from a NOOB (or even AVERAGE-above average player perspective)
you are in a very small percentage of elite player base.

I am a very good player myself (I don't pretend to be as good as you)
I have been playing gold consistently with 3 complete NOOBS.
It is a long battle to get weapons and gear (even starting out on gold)
think about the entire community, not just your normal teammates.

That is all I ask. Thank you.

Modifié par unclemonster, 06 décembre 2012 - 09:08 .

[Deuces Apples]

cgtrfghj7 wrote...

Deuces Apples wrote...

You know what? This is a never ending argument. No one can be right and no one can be wrong, it's all perspective.

Nerfing and anti nerfing threads brings out the worst in people on BSN.

Not only that but too much bias in the arguments.

-really bad analogies

Yeah it's like talking about religion at a strip club. Damnit I missed your last point.

[NavySEALCommand]

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

To go along with that list must be the power cooldown time.

If I have a -200% cooldown, yet can still retain a 3 second cooldown because I break cloak using a power, AND be able to get a shot of with the damage boost, thats not something that seems to be balanced with the other classes capabilities that induce a short damage burst (i.e. Adrenaline Rush, Marksman). If that were to be changed, I think it would fit the Infiltrators role far better, while not making the Infiltrators useless.

[KING JAMI]

If it got nerfed, I'd want to see Sabotage, Hunter Mode, Arc Grenades, and Stimulant Pack rebuffed.

[Operator m1]

unclemonster wrote...

Seems like more than respect to me...
I respect alot of people and you don't see me running around defending their posts...
It just makes you look silly.

They look like groupies, or worse. 

Random people riding someone else on the forums like a one person fan club for a prophet always seem kinda pathetic. Circlejerks are almost as bad too... except those doing it have some sort of personal pride. You gotta be damn shameless to do either, though.

Modifié par Operator m1, 06 décembre 2012 - 08:56 .

[Bariudol]

i don't, it makes no diference for me, but i do agree with people that are some ridiculous things going on with it, but if they change it or not its not on my main interests with the mp. Its a coop, as long as that big monster there is dead, i'm happy with it, unless it died with a glitch or something like that. The thing is, the bonus damage seems to be kind of high, but whats seems stupid to me is the cooldown overwrite, thats dumb, it makes the wight system loose its purpose. Thats why i mostly don't play that class, i get bored of overpowerness.