230 réponses à ce sujet

[unclemonster]

http://social.biowar.../index/15181799

only 12% (49 votes out of 400) of BSN voters want cloak nerfed.
this percentage would surely be significantly lower outside of BSN.

THIS is exactly the point I was trying to make in my posts.

[obibenjedi]

coolmandool wrote...



Lets face it, if there are easy win button classes or weapons, the player base data usually reflects this drastically. The acolyte, for example, is currently on 2 out of 4 pug players in games i have played. In my experience, we are no longer in the space where every game had at least one infiltrator.

Most people carry acolyte because of its weight. Annoyingly the only weight reducing mod I've got is for pistols. So uses it as back up for all my heavy low ammo capcity guns.

[unclemonster]

Operator m1 wrote...

unclemonster wrote...

Seems like more than respect to me...
I respect alot of people and you don't see me running around defending their posts...
It just makes you look silly.

They look like groupies, or worse. 

Random people riding someone else on the forums like a one person fan club for a prophet always seem kinda pathetic. Circlejerks are almost as bad too... except those doing it have some sort of personal pride. You gotta be damn shameless to do either, though.

[Operator m1]

NavySEALCommand wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

To go along with that list must be the power cooldown time.

If I have a -200% cooldown, yet can still retain a 3 second cooldown because I break cloak using a power, AND be able to get a shot of with the damage boost, thats not something that seems to be balanced with the other classes capabilities that induce a short damage burst (i.e. Adrenaline Rush, Marksman). If that were to be changed, I think it would fit the Infiltrators role far better, while not making the Infiltrators useless.

I hope you're not implying there's no tradeoff for a heavy loadout on an infiltrator.

I dare you to do anything outside of using it as a damage steroid with -200% recharge speed and tell me there's no tradeoff.

AR and marksman do different things as damage steroids. Don't compare apples to oranges and call for balance.

Modifié par Operator m1, 06 décembre 2012 - 09:06 .

[Doni]

Imo, only the TGI and maybe GI are OP infiltrators. But honestly, other than those two, I can perform and score the same with most other classes I play.

Also, if infiltrators are so ridiculously OP, I'm guessing I'd be seeing a lot of them in gold or plat PUGs. I don't. At most, 30% of the players I see are using infiltrators, so their supposed OPness is doing nothing as far as variety in classes is concerned.

[dday3six]

Personally I think it's an effort on the part of some to try and make the game more exclusive. They want to mold what they can do in video games as accomplishments of considerable merit.

[OuterRim]

robarcool wrote...

Annomander wrote...

OuterRim wrote...

Annomander wrote...

his problem is when powers shared by multiple kits get nerfed, simply because a stupid f*cking easy mode infiltrator shares that power.

THAT isn't the Infiltrator's fault. Its the BW balance teams inability to balance things right, or to even decide properly if something needs balancing. Don't be rash and ask for the nerfing of an entire class because the balance team hasn't a clue.

Infiltrators on a whole are much too powerful for the lack of any risk involved in playing them, general adjustment is required. High risk should mean high reward, not low risk high reward.

I can roll HS with a Black Widow and pick things from afar. Where is the risk there? If something gets too close, I AR, get my sheidls on and retreat. You are a very good player, but that doesn't mean your perspective is the absolutely correct one.

So true.

The HS is an underated class. Hope it stays that way.

[UKStory135]

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

Infiltrators are supposed to have the highest burst DPS, that is their primary role. As far as Sustained DPS goes, Cyonan has already shown that there are several Soldiers that have as high or higher sustained DPS, which is as it should be.

Their powers might hit harder, but the Engineers are better at setting off combos.

With exception of the Ghost, I don't see how their survivabilty is any better than the Sentinels.

Yes, the Huntress's DC is powerful, but it can only be active on one target at a time and can not stack.

Though there is an argument that the GI and a Ghost with a high-level UR AR are both OP, there isn't for the rest of them at all.

[UKStory135]

OuterRim wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Annomander wrote...

OuterRim wrote...

Annomander wrote...

his problem is when powers shared by multiple kits get nerfed, simply because a stupid f*cking easy mode infiltrator shares that power.

THAT isn't the Infiltrator's fault. Its the BW balance teams inability to balance things right, or to even decide properly if something needs balancing. Don't be rash and ask for the nerfing of an entire class because the balance team hasn't a clue.

Infiltrators on a whole are much too powerful for the lack of any risk involved in playing them, general adjustment is required. High risk should mean high reward, not low risk high reward.

I can roll HS with a Black Widow and pick things from afar. Where is the risk there? If something gets too close, I AR, get my sheidls on and retreat. You are a very good player, but that doesn't mean your perspective is the absolutely correct one.

So true.

The HS is an underated class. Hope it stays that way.

The HS has one of the highest Sustained DPS's in the game, no one plays her because of they don't have challenges for the original humans.

[unclemonster]

dday3six wrote...

Personally I think it's an effort on the part of some to try and make the game more exclusive. They want to mold what they can do in video games as accomplishments of considerable merit.

+1

[zRz Tyr]

"Because i played a game, and a guy outscored me! And he just happenend to be an infiltrator and therefore infiltrators are OP!"

[robarcool]

zRz Tyr wrote...

"Because i played a game, and a guy outscored me! And he just happenend to be an infiltrator and therefore infiltrators are OP!"

If you want your point heard, make some good arguments. What you just said doesn't apply to Fenekus. But that doesn't mean he is right about TC nerf.

[STRANGE10VE]

dday3six wrote...

Personally I think it's an effort on the part of some to try and make the game more exclusive. They want to mold what they can do in video games as accomplishments of considerable merit.

Well said.

[UWxMaserati]

I want it nerfed so another ability will be seen as OP and then BSN can complain and have that ability nerfed and another power will emerge as OP and we can complain and have that one nerfed too.

Circle of nerf.

[Feneckus]

UKStory135 wrote...

Infiltrators are supposed to have the highest burst DPS, that is their primary role. As far as Sustained DPS goes, Cyonan has already shown that there are several Soldiers that have as high or higher sustained DPS, which is as it should be.

With all due respect, that's total BS. I'd rather trust my in-game experience than theoritical numbers.

UKStory135 wrote...

Their powers might hit harder, but the Engineers are better at setting off combos.

Not really. The GI, SI, QMI and TGI can do that with ammo powers.

Besides, tech combos do what ? 250 damage ? Now compare that with a BW/Javelin/Harrier/Claymore boosted by Tactical Cloak.

With exception of the Ghost, I don't see how their survivabilty is any better than the Sentinels.

The SI has energy drain. The GI has Hunter Mode and proxy mine. And they all have Tactical Cloak.

capn233 wrote...

Durability was the only weakness, until the Ghost.

Adepts and Engineer have far weaker durability than Infiltrators.

unclemonster wrote...

Feneckus...the real problem is that you are too good...
so you have trouble seeing things from a NOOB (or even AVERAGE-above average player perspective)
you are in a very small percentage of elite player base.

I was a noob once.

I used to think silver was damn hard. Then I played some Gold. Playing Gold with a non infiltrator was just out of the question, I couldn't have handled it.

Now I got better, I can carry 3 bad players with pretty much every class, I can kill stuff just as efficiently as a GI with a lot of classes, but I know all the advantages you get while playing an Infiltrator. I exploited all those advantages at one point because it was the only way I could extract on Gold on a regular basis. I know what I'm talking about. I was horrible when the game came out.

Modifié par Feneckus, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[SlimJim0725]

RedJohn wrote...

Because seriously, have you realised that some players will not suffer if it is nerfed because some players just can do wonders with any kit, and the ones that will suffer this will be the average players.


So, why nerf it if it is balanced right now?

What do you want?, a decrease in the duration from 5 to 3 seconds and damage only to 10% ?


Come on people, be smart!, you are asking a nerf that will affect the big mayority of the player base and you probably ask for that nerf because X player ( who is awesome no matter what ) can do wonders with a kit.



The funny thing is, people start demanding a nerf idioticaly then when the nerd arrives they cry for weeks.... and even months, so, think carefuly before asking for something.

This. Just look at all the complaining about random players on these forums (I am guilty of this myself a bit). How will nerfing the average players "crutch" help anyone? Most don't intend to get better and if their crutch is gone they may just quit the game. Then we will see tons more "why does it take 30 minutes to get a lobby BW?" threads popping up since there will be even less players to choose from.

It won't hurt me if it gets nerfed and I will just stop playing pick-ups completely since they will just get worse from it, but it won't help anyone either. People will always be up in arms on these boards when characters that share a power get hurt because the Infiltrator with that power was just too good. I have played the Havoc since the nerf and while it wasn't as great as it was before he was far from bad either (I skipped Havoc Strike and still do).

[Tortugueta]

RedJohn wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

I don't want it nerfed because people do well with it. I want it FIXED because it affects other kits too much via balance changes.

The stim pack thing wasn't for Tactical Cloak, was because giving +4K of shields was insane.

Not for the Havoc in my opinion.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

UKStory135 wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Aekshin wrote...

So, while from a shooter game point of view the infiltrator could be perceived as OP, you are playing now an RPG and this type of games have different rules and classes. Each class has is unique role with strength and weaknesses.

The problem is, Infiltrators have no particular weaknesses. 

They have the best burst DPS AND sustained DPS.

They have better tech powers than engineers.

They arguably have better survivability than Sentinels.

They're better melee fighters than Krogans. Even a Melee Huntress is more effective than a Krogan.

The Huntress has the strongest biotic power in the game.

So not only do they have no weaknesses, other classes have no particular strengths because infiltrators are the best at pretty much everything. The only thing they lack is AOE damage for the most part.

Infiltrators are supposed to have the highest burst DPS, that is their primary role. As far as Sustained DPS goes, Cyonan has already shown that there are several Soldiers that have as high or higher sustained DPS, which is as it should be.

Their powers might hit harder, but the Engineers are better at setting off combos.

With exception of the Ghost, I don't see how their survivabilty is any better than the Sentinels.

Yes, the Huntress's DC is powerful, but it can only be active on one target at a time and can not stack.

Though there is an argument that the GI and a Ghost with a high-level UR AR are both OP, there isn't for the rest of them at all.

So which characters have higher Burst DPS than the Infiltrator?  The problem is right there in the sentence.  There are several Solders that have as high or higher sustained DPS.  EVERY Soldier should have higher sustained weapon DPS than Infiltrators.

[Feneckus]

Slimjim0725 wrote...

I have played the Havoc since the nerf and while it wasn't as great as it was before he was far from bad either (I skipped Havoc Strike and still do).

Well, if you skip Havoc Strike you don't really need Stim Packs. What about those of us who liked to Havoc Strike all over the place and draw all the aggro ? That playstyle is a bit problematic now. You can still take advantage of the invulnerability frames of Havoc Strike/Stim Packs but you go down more easily between those now. 

[Alien Number Six]

I don't want tactical cloak nerfed.

[SlimJim0725]

Feneckus wrote...
I was a noob once.

I used to think silver was damn hard. Then I played some Gold. Playing Gold with a non infiltrator was just out of the question, I couldn't have handled it.

Now I got better, I can carry 3 bad players with pretty much every class, I can kill stuff just as efficiently as a GI with a lot of classes, but I know all the advantages you get while playing an Infiltrator. I exploited all those advantages at one point because it was the only way I could extract on Gold on a regular basis. I know what I'm talking about. I was horrible when the game came out.

And here is your problem right here. You are expecting other players to even want to get better. Most are here to simply enjoy the game, you are taking it a bit too serious.

I was the exact same as you until a friend of mine got me to try Adepts on Gold and from there I decided I wanted to get better with everything. The majority of players on this game will never have the ability to use most if not all classes at a high level. Why take away their crutch? I would much rather have them play an Infiltrator and be somewhat decent than to play something else and be absolutely terrible and make me do that much more work in the game. Don't like Infiltrators? I am fine with that, but no need to nerf them when you can just avoid playing with them.

I really don't enjoy playing Infiltrators that much myself anymore, but really don't care if someone else does. Again, it is a game and we are all just looking to have fun.

[obibenjedi]

UWxMaserati wrote...

I want it nerfed so another ability will be seen as OP and then BSN can complain and have that ability nerfed and another power will emerge as OP and we can complain and have that one nerfed too.

Circle of nerf.

Isn't that the song from the lion king?

[SlimJim0725]

Feneckus wrote...

Slimjim0725 wrote...

I have played the Havoc since the nerf and while it wasn't as great as it was before he was far from bad either (I skipped Havoc Strike and still do).

Well, if you skip Havoc Strike you don't really need Stim Packs. What about those of us who liked to Havoc Strike all over the place and draw all the aggro ? That playstyle is a bit problematic now. You can still take advantage of the invulnerability frames of Havoc Strike/Stim Packs but you go down more easily between those now. 

I used a Havoc Strike build early on and didn't need to abuse Stim Packs to stay up that much. Havoc Strike and double heavy melee did me just fine, but I am sure I used a Stim Pack here and there to help a bit with that. Wait and see what they decide to do to help him out a bit more, they are already dicussing it so chill out for a bit rather than try to cause BSN wars.

[Hellfire257]

The ferocity with which the very vocal minority is fighting for a TC nerf betrays an ulterior motive beyond the simple "it is too powerful".

Modifié par Hellfire257, 06 décembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[Feneckus]

Slimjim0725 wrote...

The majority of players on this game will never have the ability to use most if not all classes at a high level. Why take away their crutch? 

I never said I wanted BW to nerf Infiltrators again. I realize many people would be upset and would quit playing, which would be a terrible idea since the game is slowly dying. Besides, I'd rather have a semi-competent Infiltrator in my lobby than a useless Engineer.

What I did say was that the game would have been better off without infiltrators. Then it would have made sense. Engineers would have been the best tech users, Soldiers would have been about DPS, Krogans would have been the best melee characters, Sentinels would have been the toughest to kill, no unnecessary nerfs, maybe Sabotage would have a decent cooldown, a Turian Soldier wouldn't feel bad about how pathetic his proxy mines are compared to the GI/SI, etc ...

There's a difference.