133 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Geralt is not flat! He has strong opinions, though in the game these are shaped by player choices. I personally love his sardonic wit.

And hurrah for hyperbole. Import mechanisms are highly overrated, but even so TW2 did not ignore "everything you did." Imposing some story choices is going to happen no matter how they develop a multi-game series.

Anyway. About the characters... I've only read the first book and maybe it's poor translation, but I like the games'  writing better than Sapkowski's.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 décembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea I disagree that Geralt is flat. Here is why.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Savber100 wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...
Well for one thing since it's not a party-based RPG like Bioware games, the developers probably had more flexiblity to allow Geralt's companions to go on their own lives. 

How exactly? 

Compare Dragon Age: Origins and The Witcher 2... 

From a story standpoint, Bioware generally focus on companions supplementing the main character. Everything they do is for the empowerment of the player's character. Seeing as there are multiple variables of companions for your group, it's difficult to for a developer to know who the players will generally favor or don't. Now why do I point this out?

Mainly because in comparsion, CDPR doesn't have to worry about that as Geralt generally goes solo.  His "companions" can go plot their schemes and live their lives without CDPR needing to calculate whether Geralt will be bringing Triss or Zoltan along for his next quest. For example, it's unlikely that Letho would  have kidnapped Triss if she was accompanying Geralt on his quests etc. 

In Dragon Age, you pretty much have the companions accompanying you 24/7. There's no space for companions to suddenly dozey off to do their own things since they're with you most of the time. Sure their is the whole companions back at camp but as I mentioned, it's difficult to play for all possbile group variables. Instead for Bioware, companions are heavily interwined with the protagonist with what the main character experience so does the companions. 

Either way, I'm not saying it's impossible since we have deep characterization  in some party-based RPGs but I can see it affecting the way you would develop the character and the possible inflexibility of it. 

Mind you this is just how I see it. 

I feel that in Bioware games even antagonists exist to supplement the protagonists with challenges and some lackeys to shoot at, rather than devising their own scheme that fits their interest.

Ex. In Mss Effect 3 all the reapers have literally turned into mindless laser shooters who can't think or plot on their own. TIM alone brewed more conspiracies than all the reapers combined together. If it were the witcher series in space, each reaper would have attempted numerous sabotages, assassinations, indoctrinations, ambushs, traps and Shepard would have been overwhelmed to death on day 1 of the war. Bioware clearly bit off more than they can chew, since there is no way they can make every reaper to act with their personal agenda.

In the witcher 2, on top of multiple factions and characters with their own plans, none of the antagonists had things 100% going their way. Even Letho screwed up several times, and it made the game so much more plausible IMHO as opposed to a mastermind evil guy planning and foreseeing everything beforehand, only to fail by the protagonist's might in the final battle. <- which is ironic too because you would think the evil guy would know the protagonist's capability by that point.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 07 décembre 2012 - 06:52 .

[someguy1231]

The Witcher 2 is everything that DA2 should've been. Hell, it's what pretty much every RPG should be. I was real glad to be able to snag the Enhanced Edition for Xbox for 10 bucks during Black Friday (PC can't run it). One of the most bang-for-your-buck game purchases I've made.

[Addai]

I agree that TW2 was a very well executed cinematic game, and since that's what Bioware aspires to, comparisons can be made. But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.

I also don't agree that it is what every RPG should be. There are a variety of games that make good RPGs, which is ultimately down to taste and preference. For some the lack of a character creator, limited exploration and limited stats development will downrate the game.

But Witcher 2 does excel also in its antagonists. Writing a good antagonist is not an easy thing. Loghain made a great antagonist, but since I'm replaying DAO now I can see that even with him the game strongly leads you towards seeing him as eeeviiil. Same with Branka and Bhelen. It's as if they feel they have to apologize for the magnificent bastard too much. CDPR is bolder in that respect.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 décembre 2012 - 08:12 .

[Costin_Razvan]

But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.

I disagree in terms of choice and consequence. ME2 has some very stupid moments and some very questionable portions in the story, though yes besides that cinematic wise it was similar though I think TW2 is better.

As for antagonists. Well Loghain was a mistake consider we know now he was mind controlled by the Archdemon at one point in story development.

Loredo, Henselt, Dethmold and Letho are just excellent however....for the most part.

The import mechanic was **** with regards to the Triss/Shani choice and the faction choice ( though they did acknowledge it  to a very small degree or a bigger one if you sided with the Order ) but fine otherwise except for something related to Adda.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 décembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.

Wait...what?

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree that TW2 was a very well executed cinematic game, and since that's what Bioware aspires to, comparisons can be made. But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.

I also don't agree that it is what every RPG should be. There are a variety of games that make good RPGs, which is ultimately down to taste and preference. For some the lack of a character creator, limited exploration and limited stats development will downrate the game.

But Witcher 2 does excel also in its antagonists. Writing a good antagonist is not an easy thing. Loghain made a great antagonist, but since I'm replaying DAO now I can see that even with him the game strongly leads you towards seeing him as eeeviiil. Same with Branka and Bhelen. It's as if they feel they have to apologize for the magnificent bastard too much. CDPR is bolder in that respect.

It goes far beyond ME2 in choice and consequence, mainly because Bioware's approach lacks nuance. And as you say they're nowhere near as bold or uncompromising as CDPR. I feel ME2 was Bioware's last great game though and it did a lot of things right.  

Modifié par slimgrin, 07 décembre 2012 - 08:29 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.

[Seboist]

Other than a few exceptions like Zaeed's LM, Garrus' RM and the Kal' Reegar choice ME2 was a more linear popamole shooter than Gears of War.

[Seboist]

Shepard is quite the character, who else compares the Genophage to the FCW, acts surprised that Asari can reproduce with each other and says such words of wisdom as "We fight or we die, that's the plan!!!" ?

Modifié par Seboist, 07 décembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[Silcron]

The characters in the Witcher have a lot of deph and story, specially because they're a sort of continuation on several books "The saga of Geralt of Rivia" I think there's about 5 or 6 of them, read them all loved them all. Actually in style reminds me of Game of Thrones.

And I must say I feel proud of knowing both becaue of the books, not the series (yes, there is one for the Witcher) or the games (there's also a GoT one).

[Kenadian]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.

You could make an argument for Witcher 1 being rather ridiculous with its "**** these women and collect nudies of them" mini-game, but Geralt is anything but misogynistic. Or dull. Pay attention to the game some more. One of the chapter endings choices in the first game was whether or not to side with the "witch". A "witch" accused of being a ****, seductress and general evil doer (serving as a scapegoat for the horrors the men accusing her committed). And you could very well side with her and sock it to the very disgusting and two-faced scum of the village, particularly that priest. Geralt? Misogynistic? Couldn't be farther from the truth.

Seboist wrote...

Shepard is quite the character, who else
compares the Genophage to the FCW, acts surprised that Asari can
reproduce each other and says such words of wisdom as "We fight or we
die, that's the plan!!!" ?

FCW?

Modifié par Kenadian, 07 décembre 2012 - 08:50 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Death_Acolyte wrote...

Where are these misogynistic accusations coming from?

Also, anybody that thinks Geralt is flat obviously hasn't really been paying attention to anything.
Now Shephard on the other hand...

So true. He doesn't hate women! He loves them a little too much! And he has the collectible trading cards to prove it.

[slimgrin]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.

Well he's not for everyone but he's not a misogynist. In fact, he loves women.

http://t0.gstatic.co...2eFBTyZeG43G6FJ

[Kenadian]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Death_Acolyte wrote...

Where are these misogynistic accusations coming from?

Also, anybody that thinks Geralt is flat obviously hasn't really been paying attention to anything.
Now Shephard on the other hand...

So true. He doesn't hate women! He loves them a little too much! And he has the collectible trading cards to prove it.

There's nothing saying Geralt has to or does do this. It is entirely up to the player. Saying Geralt is misogynistic is like saying Shepard is a sick ****ing psychopath who sacrifices anything and anyone to get his way, just because some people play straight renegades. I'm sure you realize that's a stupid thing to say, right?

[Seboist]

Kenadian wrote...

FCW?

First contact war.

[AtreiyaN7]

Kenadian wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.

You could make an argument for Witcher 1 being rather ridiculous with its "**** these women and collect nudies of them" mini-game, but Geralt is anything but misogynistic. Or dull. Pay attention to the game some more. One of the chapter endings choices in the first game was whether or not to side with the "witch". A "witch" accused of being a ****, seductress and general evil doer (serving as a scapegoat for the horrors the men accusing her committed). And you could very well side with her and sock it to the very disgusting and two-faced scum of the village, particularly that priest. Geralt? Misogynistic? Couldn't be farther from the truth.

Seboist wrote...

Shepard is quite the character, who else
compares the Genophage to the FCW, acts surprised that Asari can
reproduce each other and says such words of wisdom as "We fight or we
die, that's the plan!!!" ?

FCW?

Oh wait, let me paste this in:

• Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.

Yeah, there's absolutely noooo sexual objectification/denigration of women in TW1 by Geralt or anything. Nope! *snort* He is misogynistic and dull in my opinion - especially with the asinine portrayals of most of the women in the first game. You do realize that a bad first impression kind of sets the tone, right? And it was a bad impression, so much so that I refused to keep playing TW1 to find out if he ever managed to spout even one remotely intelligent or interesting line in anything other than his one-dimensional delivery.

From what I recall after watching TW2 gameplay from the beginning sections of the game, Geralt couldn't even manage to put any emotion into saying f--- in that scene  where he was being tortured, which is why I continue to find him dull and eminently uninteresting. Look, there's being stoic, but even when one's being stoic, there should be at least some hint of emotion somewhere in a person's voice.

Shepard might have a cheesy line or clunky dialogue on occasion, but he/she at least can deliver on an emotional level most of the time. And he/she isn't particularly misogynistic or annoyingly dull at least. But that's neither here nor there - it doesn't change the fact that Geralt is bland, uninteresting, and not particularly sexy either.

Hey, if he's going to objectify women, I'll objectify him - except that I really wouldn't want to touch him with a ten-foot pole. In fact, I'd rather be stuck on a deserted island with a Vogon and be doomed to listen to bad poetry until I die.

[Cutlass Jack]

Kenadian wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Death_Acolyte wrote...

Where are these misogynistic accusations coming from?

Also, anybody that thinks Geralt is flat obviously hasn't really been paying attention to anything.
Now Shephard on the other hand...

So true. He doesn't hate women! He loves them a little too much! And he has the collectible trading cards to prove it.

There's nothing saying Geralt has to or does do this. It is entirely up to the player. Saying Geralt is misogynistic is like saying Shepard is a sick ****ing psychopath who sacrifices anything and anyone to get his way, just because some people play straight renegades. I'm sure you realize that's a stupid thing to say, right?

Oh I see! You mean like implying Shepard is Misogynistic because some people play him that way. Gotchya!

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 07 décembre 2012 - 09:20 .

[Seboist]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

*snip*

So, if you're against objectification of women then what are you doing with the avatar of a broad whose ass is the focus of every scene she's in?

[slimgrin]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Geralt couldn't even manage to put any emotion into saying f--- in that scene  where he was being tortured, which is why I continue to find him dull and eminently uninteresting. Look, there's being stoic, but even when one's being stoic, there should be at least some hint of emotion somewhere in a person's voice.

Witchers are mutants stripped of emotion, it's in their make up. Or that's the lore in the books, so it was the starting point for CDPR. 

[Aeowyn]

Seboist wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

*snip*

So, if you're against objectification of women then what are you doing with the avatar of a broad whose ass is the focus of every scene she's in?

Well duh, obviously Miranda is different.

[Costin_Razvan]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.

If you haven't finished TW1 or TW2 I suggest you STFU about your opinions about Geralt since you do not have a full picture. It's in the exact same pot of people who hate on ME3 or DA2 despite not even finishing it.

Also whether or not YOU find Geralt flat and booring without any emotional depth does not mean the character is objectively weaker then Shepard because Shepard is a ******.

And as Seboist pointed out. You complain about mysoginy while wearing MIRANDA as an avatar.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 décembre 2012 - 09:36 .