Aller au contenu

Photo

The Witcher 2 = very deep chracter depiction


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
133 réponses à ce sujet

#51
The Heretic of Time

The Heretic of Time
  • Members
  • 5 612 messages

Costin_Razvan wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.


If you haven't finished TW1 I suggest you STFU about your opinions about Geralt since you do not have a full picture. It's in the exact same pot of people who hate on ME3 or DA2 despite not even finishing it.

And as Seboist pointed out. You complain about mysoginy while wearing MIRANDA as an avatar.


Well, what did you expect? Drones gonna drone. :wizard:

#52
Obeded the 2nd

Obeded the 2nd
  • Members
  • 2 199 messages

wolfsite wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

CDPR focuses on plot, Bioware focuses on characters.


Yet CDPR does both better.

*inb4 rage about how I'm wrong*

:lol:


I have to disagree, Geralt, though created by someone else I do understand, is a character I hate more than anything.  It's hard to play such a flat character that is unable to express any emotion and seems to not care about anything around him.  I played Witcher 1 from beginning to end and even when you try to get him to be close to a character he's just so lifeless.

Got turned off by the Witcher 2 when they let you import your Witcher 1 save then ignore everything you did.  For those who complain about forced narative they obviously ignore this since it makes playing Witcher 1 pointless and also made it felt like you will be forced down a specific path no matter what you choose.


Geralt is far from a flat charcter, he has has own motivations and own backstory, he's not doing what he does because he is told (although he is at the beggining) but does everything for his own reasons.

I never played TW1 but in 2 there are 2 DIFFRENT ACT TWO'S, better than anything ME did in that regard.

#53
Nordicus

Nordicus
  • Members
  • 445 messages

Kenadian wrote...

There's nothing saying Geralt has to or does do this. It is entirely up to the player. Saying Geralt is misogynistic is like saying Shepard is a sick ****ing psychopath who sacrifices anything and anyone to get his way, just because some people play straight renegades. I'm sure you realize that's a stupid thing to say, right?

Nah, I'd call renegade Shepard an impatient brute with his pistol almost always up someone's nose. Never really that interesting

Now Michael Thorton? THAT is a psychopath. He bullies and essentially kidnaps people on his side, kills civilians with very little provocation, watches nearby as people get tortured, blackmails, taunts people to help him (Paraprhase: "If I get captured, you'll never see me again. You'll never get your revenge") and the list goes on

#54
Costin_Razvan

Costin_Razvan
  • Members
  • 7 010 messages
Oh yes Mike Thorton is SUCH an ****! I love him for being able to play a manipulative bastard though.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 décembre 2012 - 09:56 .


#55
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages
The only real Michael Thorton is Magnificent Bastard Thorton.

#56
Nordicus

Nordicus
  • Members
  • 445 messages

wolfsite wrote...
It's hard to play such a flat character that
is unable to express any emotion and seems to not care about anything
around him.

To you it might seem like it, but I assure you, it isn't so. One character trait Geralt will always possess, is that he cares about people who're even somewhat nice to him, he is easily persuaded by kind words and acts. So much so in fact, that both Prince Stennis and Baron Kimbolt mock and berate him for being such a gullible, naïve pawn whenever someone in power gives him just a bit of attention. Geralt doesn't mistrust people easily, unless they're massive pricks from the first moment he meets them

Sure, he hates politics and doesn't like being treated as some kind of grand altruistic hero nor an assassin (with former comes Geralt being taken for granted, latter leaves him with jobs he'd rather not take), but Geralt is definitely not beyond caring.

(Now, all this is taken from the games, btw)

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Oh yes Mike Thorton is SUCH an ****! I love him for being able to play a manipulative bastard though.

I played my first Michael Thorton like a by-the-book wet blanket with a few friendly jokes thrown in the mix. Sie just hated my guts for it :lol:

Modifié par Nordicus, 07 décembre 2012 - 10:17 .


#57
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Nordicus wrote...
So much so in fact, that both Prince Stennis and Baron Kimbolt mock and berate him for being such a gullible, naïve pawn whenever someone in power gives him just a bit of attention.


The conversatin with Kimbolt is one of the best in the entire game.

Kimbolt was verbally kicking his ass, and just when you thought Geralt would turn around and leave with his tail behind his legs, he retorts and deconstructs Kimbolt's "nobless s'oblige" arrogant attitude and shows him where to shove it.

It was phenomenal, it's rare to see a protagonist being able to hold his own verbally and not just kill, kill and kill.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2012 - 10:26 .


#58
wolfsite

wolfsite
  • Members
  • 5 780 messages

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.


If I could I would high five you right now.

#59
Nordicus

Nordicus
  • Members
  • 445 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

It was phenomenal, it's rare to see a protagonist being able to hold his own verbally and not just kill, kill and kill.

Yeah sure, I guess, but that wasn't what impressed me.

What I found almost profound, is that the writers had managed to sneak in a mental curve ball, a piece of heavy criticism covered in character's disdain that hits both Geralt and the player below the belt. It's easy to make a character curse you for choosing X instead of Y, but to legitimately hit the nail on the head on stuff that you generally do without thinking, which in this case is to do stuff friendly people want you to do, instead of the people with the best goals

It was a complete "OH SNAP" moment in Geralt's expense, and I loved it

wolfsite wrote...

If I could I would high five you right now.

Didn't know people got high-fives for blocking their ears, eyes and mind

Geralt lacks humor, ruthlessness and cunning? Really? REALLY? I can sort of get how you could not see Geralt's other qualities from just watching a bit of gameplay, but those are just simply wrong

Modifié par Nordicus, 07 décembre 2012 - 10:47 .


#60
AtreiyaN7

AtreiyaN7
  • Members
  • 8 398 messages

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.


If you haven't finished TW1 I suggest you STFU about your opinions about Geralt since you do not have a full picture. It's in the exact same pot of people who hate on ME3 or DA2 despite not even finishing it.

And as Seboist pointed out. You complain about mysoginy while wearing MIRANDA as an avatar.


Well, what did you expect? Drones gonna drone. :wizard:


And I could easily point out that plenty of people in the forums are idiots - which is mostly why I don't bother reading jack in here anymore unless I feel like yanking some chains to entertain myself, which I have quite successfully done in this thread (and with facts and a perfectly valid opinion too - go figure).

One thing that I've had to point out a number of times is that I use the Miranda avatar because I was a fan of the series Chuck (I loved that show) in which Yvonne Strahoviski played Sara. I also found the avatar amusing because A) she's an intelligent brunette who can be a stone-cold b-word, just like me and B) because she irritated some forumites.

I would never argue that Miranda is NOT sexualized. But the major difference between her and every female that I've seen in The Witcher 1 is that Miranda is a brilliant woman (no matter what you think of the silly catsuit) and mostly sounds like it, as opposed to one of those airheaded bimbos who exist solely for Geralt to bed.

Furthermore, you can collectively stow it about whether or not I have a right to have an opinion about a character. I have played enough of TW1 to know that I couldn't stand being Geralt or listening to Geralt for one more minute, and somehow, I doubt that forcing myself to endure the misery of playing the full game will ever change my opinion of him at this point.

I work on formatting multiple manuscripts during the course of a single week, and let me tell you something: I don't have to read each manuscript in its entirety to know when one of them stinks.
It's usually quite clear within, say, a few paragraphs or pages whether or not
I've been stuck with something tolerable or crap that will make me miserable. The same thing applies to movies or, surprise,
video games - even your precious Witcher.

And finally, I will emphasize that I actually forced myself to watch gameplay from BOTH TW1 and TW2 to see if things would get better or if I had somehow unfairly judged Geralt and company. I actually spent a fair amount of time perusing various videos to see if I would have some hallelujah moment that would prove me wrong - no such luck, though. Per my manuscript example, I don't need 30-plus hours of playing a game to judge a character.

Sorry to break it to you, but there are people who don't think that Geralt is all that and a bag of chips. I tried to play TW1 because I repeatedly heard good things about it here - and then I was summarily disappointed by it within the first few minutes.

#61
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.


Wait...what?

What what?  You get some very significant choices in ME2.  That doesn't necessarily carry through in the resolution in ME3, from what I've heard, but ME1 and 2 both have good reactivity.

#62
palker

palker
  • Members
  • 454 messages

wolfsite wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

CDPR focuses on plot, Bioware focuses on characters.


Yet CDPR does both better.

*inb4 rage about how I'm wrong*

:lol:


I have to disagree, Geralt, though created by someone else I do understand, is a character I hate more than anything.  It's hard to play such a flat character that is unable to express any emotion and seems to not care about anything around him.  I played Witcher 1 from beginning to end and even when you try to get him to be close to a character he's just so lifeless.

Got turned off by the Witcher 2 when they let you import your Witcher 1 save then ignore everything you did.  For those who complain about forced narative they obviously ignore this since it makes playing Witcher 1 pointless and also made it felt like you will be forced down a specific path no matter what you choose.


You do not even know how wrong you are. If you read the books you would understand Geralts character and his motivations and you would know that the emotionless mutant attitude is just a front

#63
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.


Wait...what?

What what?  You get some very significant choices in ME2.  That doesn't necessarily carry through in the resolution in ME3, from what I've heard, but ME1 and 2 both have good reactivity.


...what?
How were choices in ME2 or 1 relevent in the game? What were the consequences?

You have one game with 2 very different paths depending on choice, and you say it's on par with ME1 and 2? How?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2012 - 11:05 .


#64
Costin_Razvan

Costin_Razvan
  • Members
  • 7 010 messages

Sorry to break it to you, but there are people who don't think that Geralt is all that and a bag of chips. I tried to play TW1 because I repeatedly heard good things about it here - and then I was summarily disappointed by it within the first few minutes.


Whether or not YOU think that Geralt is a badly written character is irrelevant to whether or not he is good or bad objectively.

And yes I repeat myself, because you didn't finish either game your opinion on the character and games is completely irrelevant and you can "stow it" yourself and you are not in any way above the very same people who bash Bioware games that you hate.

Because if you are going to **** and moan about a character in a game series you didn't finish and then **** and moan about people who exactly the same thing for a game series that you like then yes you are a bloody hypocrite.

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">I ]But the major difference between her and every female that I've seen in The Witcher 1 is that Miranda is a [/color]brilliant woman (no matter what you think of the silly catsuit) and mostly sounds like it, as opposed to one of those airheaded bimbos who exist solely for Geralt to bed.

Miranda is not designed to be ****ed by male Shepard? Sure continue to believe that notion. Also the notion that she's a briliant woman compared to the chessmaster who manipulates ( or tries to manipulate Geralt ) in TW1 that is Triss is laughable to me.

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.


Wait...what? 

What what?  You get some very significant choices in ME2.  That doesn't necessarily carry through in the resolution in ME3, from what I've heard, but ME1 and 2 both have good reactivity.

 

What? What reactivity are you talking about? The only thing that really matters in ME2 is loyalty and some ship upgrades, that's it, everything else IS useless trivial fluff.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 07 décembre 2012 - 11:12 .


#65
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages
The comparison of The Witcher to James Bond movies is fair, I think. I had the same impression reading The Last Wish, and for that reason didn't like his depiction of Yennefer. It seemed to me that Sapkowski's sorceresses were like 60's movies starlets. However even if that is true (I'm not saying it is, since I've only read one book and the impression was fleeting), the depiction of sorceresses in the games is far more nuanced. Assuming Triss is brainless because you don't like her voice acting- *that* is dumb.

As is saying that Geralt is a misogynist or that the games are. Women don't throw themselves at powerful men for sex? Oh really? I suppose all those women that the professional sports players sleep with are all out for deep, meaningful relationships. There are vapid, silly women in the games and there are vapid, silly women in actuality, or women who just want a roll in the hay, which is not necessarily the same thing- as I'm sure the "sl*t shamer" complainers would insist if the conversation was framed differently.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 décembre 2012 - 11:12 .


#66
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

Guest_EntropicAngel_*
  • Guests

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

...what?
How were choices in ME2 or 1 relevent in the game? What were the consequences?

You have one game with 2 very different paths depending on choice, and you say it's on par with ME1 and 2? How?


Pretty sure she was just being lenient.


As for myself, I bought TW1 and tried to play it, but I couldn't. The wierd QTE combat, RPG-style level progression, yet fixed character was just too much. The porn didn't help them in my eyes, either.

Also, "Women throwing themselves at powerful men" is one thing, but when you can have sex with literally every type of female you encounter in the game, there's a problem. In my eyes, of course.

Modifié par EntropicAngel, 07 décembre 2012 - 11:15 .


#67
slimgrin

slimgrin
  • Members
  • 12 485 messages

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
But it is on par to ME2 for polish and choice & consequence.


Wait...what?

What what?  You get some very significant choices in ME2.  That doesn't necessarily carry through in the resolution in ME3, from what I've heard, but ME1 and 2 both have good reactivity.


Black and white reactivity. You can be a saint or the devil, not much in between. And it doesn't use a delayed consequence system. And it has a bloody morality meter, the bane of RPG's. And Shepard is the center of everything, the only capable person in a universe of nitwits. You should read Blood of Elves, it's much better than the first book. That's where CDPR got much of the inspiration for TW2.

Modifié par slimgrin, 07 décembre 2012 - 11:17 .


#68
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What? What reactivity are you talking about? The only thing that really matters in ME2 is loyalty and some ship upgrades, that's it, everything else IS useless trivial fluff.

How you handle Legion's quest, for instance, or whether you save or destroy the reaper base, and how you come out of the suicide mission.

I'm not going to defend ME2, because it's a game I hardly care about.  To me it was as good a game as TW2, however.  More playable from a gameplay perspective in fact.

#69
IntoTheDarkness

IntoTheDarkness
  • Members
  • 1 014 messages

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Yes, Triss getting out of the tub naked near the beginning of the TW2 was a scene of great emotional depth! *sarcasm* I basically hated her the moment she opened her mouth in TW1. As a female, I don't really like it when the very first female character I first encounter sounds like a complete idiot (and what I've seen of other female characters in that game hasn't impressed me either).

Also, Geralt is one of the most horribly dull characters misogynistic characters I've had the misfortune of playing - fortunately, I stopped Witcher 1 early enough to avoid inflicting more suffering on myself. James Bond might be slightly misogynistic as a character, but at least the various actors who have portrayed him (Daniel Craig in particular) give him depth, humor, charm, ruthlessness, cunning, and vitality - every quality that Geralt completely and utterly lacks in my opinion.


1. Geralt is not a mysogynist. He defended non-humans in Rivia massacre and he often has stood for the minority. Mind you, TW is loosely based on medieval society and women's social position were not the same as modern world. Geralt loves sleeping with women but how the hell does that make him a mysogynist? Don't make judgement with modern perspectives.

2. Geralt isn't dull. He is a mutant so he speaks in monotone but he makes witty remarks all the time. On the other hand, Shepard is definately dull because he/she lacks any weakness or agony found in any humans even though he/she went through death, which makes him a perfect but flat character. Shepard recieved some traits of [contrived] emotions in ME3, but still is far flatter than Geralt who is a pre-defined character.

#70
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What? What reactivity are you talking about? The only thing that really matters in ME2 is loyalty and some ship upgrades, that's it, everything else IS useless trivial fluff.

How you handle Legion's quest, for instance, or whether you save or destroy the reaper base, and how you come out of the suicide mission.


These are choices. Where are the consequences / reactivity? 
How does it come close to having the end of Act 1, all of Act 3 and mmost of Act 3 be different depending on choice?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 07 décembre 2012 - 11:19 .


#71
Costin_Razvan

Costin_Razvan
  • Members
  • 7 010 messages
Also how do the characters of ME2 even compare to Loredo, Saskia, Roche, Iorveth, Radovid, Phillipa, Sile and Dethmold. Sure there are SOME good ME2 characters but they don't anywhere the quality of writing of TW2.

#72
HoonDing

HoonDing
  • Members
  • 3 012 messages

Addai67 wrote...

Geralt is not flat!

And luckily, neither is Triss.

:drumroll:

#73
Chromie

Chromie
  • Members
  • 9 881 messages

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Also how do the characters of ME2 even compare to Loredo, Saskia, Roche, Iorveth, Radovid, Phillipa, Sile and Dethmold. Sure there are SOME good ME2 characters but they don't anywhere the quality of writing of TW2.


Costin we both know TiM is better than any character in the Witcher series.

/troll

#74
Addai

Addai
  • Members
  • 25 850 messages

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
These are choices. Where are the consequences / reactivity? 
How does it come close to having the end of Act 1, all of Act 3 and mmost of Act 3 be different depending on choice?

TW2 ends up pretty much in the same place regardless of your act 2, as well.  The same general events happen, and even the advertising that you see "whole different areas" isn't true.  It's the same basic areas in act 2, only some parts are cordoned off at different times.

Most games only give the illusion of reactivity.  TW2 is no different.

#75
KnightofPhoenix

KnightofPhoenix
  • Members
  • 21 527 messages

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
These are choices. Where are the consequences / reactivity? 
How does it come close to having the end of Act 1, all of Act 3 and mmost of Act 3 be different depending on choice?

TW2 ends up pretty much in the same place regardless of your act 2, as well.  The same general events happen, and even the advertising that you see "whole different areas" isn't true.  It's the same basic areas in act 2, only some parts are cordoned off at different times.

Most games only give the illusion of reactivity.  TW2 is no different.


Different locations (and yes they are different, One you are in Vergen, the other, in Henselt's camp, and even when you visit the other location in one of the paths, you dont' see all of it and it's only for a brief moment), different characters, different main and side quests, are not an illusion.

It ending in the same place is irrelevent. What I have is a third of the game being actually different in terms of  story and gameplay. ME1 and 2 don't come anywhere near that.