15 réponses à ce sujet

[KingGunDragon]

There where only a few things I didnt like  about 2 and this was at the tope of my list. I missed out on Nate Returning becuase of this glitch.  Because i didnt have him in my group at the end fight in awakening  It counted him as dead and sadly this never got patched.  

[Todd23]

Agreed. If needed Bioware, use ALL the time you got from the push back to make sure the imports work perfectly.

[Pandaman102]

As I understand it, it wasn't a problem with DA2's importing function that bugged out, but that DA:O didn't save the flags correctly. It would be a simple matter if DA:O simply saved the opposite state, all you would need to do is have the game do the opposite of what was intended after importing, but for those events where it didn't save the flag at all... well, then you're up a creek without a paddle. Nothing short of patching DA:O and replaying the whole thing will fix it and that's never going to happen.

Edit: and in the unlikely even that DA:O gets fixed, it still won't save DA3 from any design decisions to outright ignore player choices, since those aren't considered "glitches".

Modifié par Pandaman102, 08 décembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[Maria Caliban]

"Remove imports and you remove the glitches."

/Fast Jimmy

[Zevais]

Maria Caliban wrote...

"Remove imports and you remove the glitches."

/Fast Jimmy

You don't need to remove the import concept... just the mechanism. I am in full support of a checklist at the beginning of DA:I. We check off what we did or did not do, and it loads from there. It has been suggested even before I suggested it. I really think that is the better solution. They can even give us the option to skip it if people are impatient or don't care.

[AppealToReason]

The import concept is probably gonna be scrapped and replaced with something else. Mainly due to the engine change. I think it was Laidlaw who said that because of the new engine recognizing any plot flags was super difficult.

[nightscrawl]

AppealToReason wrote...

The import concept is probably gonna be scrapped and replaced with something else. Mainly due to the engine change. I think it was Laidlaw who said that because of the new engine recognizing any plot flags was super difficult.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. Also something to consider is if they make DA3 for cross generation platform: PS3, 360, and their successors. If they do that then they will have to come up with a way to port over the decisions.

Maria Caliban wrote...

"Remove imports and you remove the glitches."

/Fast Jimmy

Lol... Nice festive avatar change btw .

I think this is one of those issues that is just a fundamental disagreement and no amount of discussion can change one's opinion. I also don't think that just because there were issues with the DA2 imports that it bars the system from ever working correctly, or that it never can work correctly.

Decisions should have the most impact in the game you are currently playing, but I also would like huge decisions (the ruler of Ferelden) to be carried over.

[Giltspur]

Personally, I'd like to set my decisions and not worry about GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) with the save games.  In other words, outsource the import problem to the gamers and let them fix it.  Now is that a hassle for some?  "I don't remember what I did, but I want the game to."  Maybe.  In that case you could always try to read the import but allow the player to review and modify it before "committing" the change before the game starts.  You could also let people import the decisions in the course of the game.  "Hey, Inquisitor Man, you know all about the Warden [and in this example it's clear to gamer that Inquisitor has researched the Warden and knows his history], what did he do here?"  And you say thereby setting the decision from DAO while playing DA3.  Whatever.  I think it makes sense though to give the player some control over the problem since it's hard to imagine Bioware can fix everything from their side given what they have to work with.  And if there is no gamer control that means waiting for a patch after release sufficiently annoyed by import problems to stop playing.  And that's no good for those guys.

[Jorina Leto]

AppealToReason wrote...

The import concept is probably gonna be scrapped and replaced with something else. Mainly due to the engine change. I think it was Laidlaw who said that because of the new engine recognizing any plot flags was super difficult.

No, changing the engine is irrelevant for scrapping the save import. It's still Bioware's game and they should know how the save files are constructed.

The real issue will be the switch to the next gen consoles.

[Pedrak]

Zevais wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

"Remove imports and you remove the glitches."

/Fast Jimmy

You don't need to remove the import concept... just the mechanism. I am in full support of a checklist at the beginning of DA:I. We check off what we did or did not do, and it loads from there. It has been suggested even before I suggested it. I really think that is the better solution. They can even give us the option to skip it if people are impatient or don't care.

Now, this is indeed a solid idea.

It could be done with some style, ex. at the beginning of the game, when clicking "start a new game", you get access to a tome, read, say, by Varric and with some nice art which both sums up the story and allows to select the choices made. Players who don't care get the option to skip the tome and simply get a canon version.

It would also prevent the "keep the save games" nuisance, allow to import decisions from one platform to another (say, from PC to a console, or from console to a next-gen console), and it would also add to replay value allowing the player to experiment new stories without having to replay previous games multiple times, which not everyone is inclined to do.


The only drawback I can think of is that the appearances of the Warden and Hawke won't be imported, but I guess this could be solved, in case they appear (which I don't think they NEED to, frankly) with helmets, masks or whatever.

Yes, this has been suggested several times on the forums. Unfortunately, I don't recall any dev ever commenting on it.

Modifié par Pedrak, 08 décembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Svanhildr]

Mm, nothing like making a perfect save and things glitch in the next game making you miss out on a few things :<

[Wulfram]

Drawbacks to the checklist approach (somewhat devils advocatey)

1. Sticking a checklist at the start of the game isn't exactly the most exciting opening. You can say that people could skip it, but my observation is a lot of people don't skip stuff that they find boring, they just conclude it's a boring game. It's not like they can tell what's supposed to be the interesting stuff
2. It's putting a rather high burden on the player's memory
3. It risks removing the pleasant surprise that a cameo is supposed to provoke. The questions asked will suggest what details are going to be relevant
(edit: 4.  You lose the sense that there is a reward for dedicated players, since anyone had get them even if they never played the earlier game.)

All that together I think means that a checklist wouldn't work with all the sort of details that a save import might. You'd probably have to limit it to the big decisions, with no little references to the minor quests like say Conrad Verner in ME - though that might not be a bad thing.

IE:
Was Hawke a Mage?
Was Hawke a Boy or a Girl?
What happened to the Arishok?
Which companions are dead?
Who was the Romance?
Who did Hawke fight for at the end?

And that's about it for DA2

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 décembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[nightscrawl]

Wulfram wrote...

3. It risks removing the pleasant surprise that a cameo is supposed to provoke. The questions asked will suggest what details are going to be relevant

I've thought of this too. It certainly would ruin the surprise for some things =/.

(edit: 4.  You lose the sense that there is a reward for dedicated players, since anyone had get them even if they never played the earlier game.)

I don't know about this one. If someone is new to Dragon Age then the decisions would have no significance for them. How can something be a reward if it has no meaning? The only valid issue would be the example of Finding Nathaniel, which is certainly the better result of the DAA import: you get better loot rewards and a special sibling thing if either of them joined the Grey Wardens. Just a general cameo, like Alistair or Anora appearing in Act 3? How would that affect a new player one way or another?

As a person who played DAO and DA2 several times, the bonus of a checklist for me would be the ability to change some decisions without having to do an entire play over again to see a minor difference in DA3.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 08 décembre 2012 - 01:20 .

[KingGunDragon]

Im kinda in favior of the check list idea while it would anticlimatic . It would fix the glitch issues like the one i stated.

[Pedrak]

Wulfram wrote...

Drawbacks to the checklist approach (somewhat devils advocatey)

1. Sticking a checklist at the start of the game isn't exactly the most exciting opening. You can say that people could skip it, but my observation is a lot of people don't skip stuff that they find boring, they just conclude it's a boring game. It's not like they can tell what's supposed to be the interesting stuff
2. It's putting a rather high burden on the player's memory
3. It risks removing the pleasant surprise that a cameo is supposed to provoke. The questions asked will suggest what details are going to be relevant
(edit: 4.  You lose the sense that there is a reward for dedicated players, since anyone had get them even if they never played the earlier game.)

1) True, to an extent. Sure, a black screen with Y/N options would be awful, but, as I said, I believe it could be done with style - a tome with some nice art, a narration by a previous NPC - say, Varric or Flemeth. They should just give 2 options: A) "Canon story", which allows to skip the whole thing;  "Custom story", where you can select what you did. If you make clear isn't a tutorial or a necessity for playing the game, but just something for previous players, I don't think anyone would select it just because it's there and then whine because it's boring.

2) If the player doesn't remember what he did, then he will have no problems if he chooses wrong. Anyway, I remember every single choice I made, say, in KOTOR, whichI played once, and that's what, a ten-years old game?

3) Again, true to an extent. But having the player state race and gender of previous NPCs doesn't necessarily mean they're going to give them a cameo. Maybe it will be a statue - maybe his race will be mentioned in a ballad, or whatever.
4) I'd argue that the reward for dedicated players is the pleasure of playing the games

Modifié par Pedrak, 08 décembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[sea-]

How about we don't waste time or money on doing pointless character imports which serve absolutely no gameplay or story function except to justify the existence of the feature in the first place?