491 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

Nefla wrote...

If the quests in Skyrim weren't fun, people wouldn't have hundreds of hours of playtime

but how much of it is questing and not exploration or just raiding random caves?

Hell I go back to Oblivion every so often because there are still caves and coves unmapped for me to find. It's the thrill of exploration which makes Elder Scrolls part dungeon crawler, part open ended power fantasy.

A completely different style of RPG than Dragon Age as well. But of course, that is sort of the point. 

[Yrkoon]

LinksOcarina wrote...
A completely different style of RPG than Dragon Age as well. But of course, that is sort of the point. 

  But.... it didn't have to be.  At all.    Take Dragon age 2, for example.   It was a personal story, which means   an open world would not have diluted it in the slightest.    Instead, it would have made it better.

Specifically, look at Act 1 and its main plotline.  You  are asked by Varric and his brother to  raise 50 gold.    Ok.  That's just vague enough to allow for all sorts of world map-filled  free roam.  We should have been able go out and  earn that fortune   via vast exploration and travel if we wanted to.

Ditto with acquiring our companions.  Isabela's a  sea-faring character.  Totally lame that we met her at a bar, when we could have just as easily met her at sea, or at the scene of a shipwreck on some remote Island.  And Merril....  Nothing in the lore says that Dalish camps have to be right next door to  a big city.  Is there?   We should have had to do a ton of  forest exploration to find her camp.

Again, none of this would have negatively impacted the story at all.  Instead, it would have just  made the entire  game better.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 décembre 2012 - 11:36 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

LinksOcarina wrote...
Too bad the first half of this list is  ridiculously inadequate to play because of limitations of the systems back then.

Too bad you never play them before. I suppose you have no slightest idea on how to tweak your system to play older games and that's too bad too. But I'm sure it's not a problem for someone from developer's background. 

LinksOcarina wrote...

As for Dishonored, it's not really an RPG

 

Cameron Lee isn't asking about RPG. She's asking about all sort of games. And she did mentioned Dishonored. 

Cameron Lee wrote...
We’re gamers so we look at all sorts of games, recently I’ve looked at; AC3, Dishonored, XCOM

LinksOcarina wrote...

but it is pretty good, although the gameplay is broken because of power spamming.

Thank you for your opinion but that's not the point of my post.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 12 décembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[wr7en]

I agree. I just couldn't get used to the controls- to look at something 90 degrees left, I had to lift and re-scoot the mouse 3 times (in combat!)- it would work for a joystick, but with my desktop set-up it's a no-go. And interactions are counter-intuitive- but I'm used to a Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age kinda universe, though. It could just be me.

pmac_tk421 wrote...

I tried to like Skyrim, but I couldn't. I prefer DA2. Yeah I said it. Get over it.

Modifié par wr7en, 12 décembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Atakuma wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

And here's you should take note: It's not an old school, It's a Bethesda's Product:

Dishonored

Take note of what? The paper thin plot and characterization, or the fact that you can get praised for being innovative and original, while making a watered down ripoff of an older game?

How many games like Deus Ex do we have? They get praised for originality because they developed a product that the market hasn't been saturated with, like say, an action-adventure game with lite roleplaying game elements and cinematic cutscenes.

[LinksOcarina]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
Too bad the first half of this list is  ridiculously inadequate to play because of limitations of the systems back then.

Too bad you never play them before. I suppose you have no slightest idea on how to tweak your system to play older games and that's too bad too. But I'm sure it's not a problem for someone from developer's background. 

Well **** you too, dude.

Don't presume anything I have and have not played. That just pisses me off. 

[Atakuma]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

And here's you should take note: It's not an old school, It's a Bethesda's Product:

Dishonored

Take note of what? The paper thin plot and characterization, or the fact that you can get praised for being innovative and original, while making a watered down ripoff of an older game?

How many games like Deus Ex do we have? They get praised for originality because they developed a product that the market hasn't been saturated with, like say, an action-adventure game with lite roleplaying game elements and cinematic cutscenes.

That describes Dishonored far better than Dragon Age 2. I guess no one remembers Theif, the other first person magical steampunk stealth game.

Modifié par Atakuma, 12 décembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Vilegrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Eh, he's not a fan. In my experiences with TES (Olbivion and Morrowind), plot isn't a huge focus of their games.  I find the excel at lore and setting creation.

My old prof (who uses RPGs for research) even had the pleasure of talking with some guys from Bethesda in the wake of Oblivion, and they stated that most of their story focus went into the early part of the game to provide a hook for the player to keep playing and start exploring the world.

I hear Skyrim is better than Oblivion, but it did seem to match my expectations for Oblivion after the fact.

Skyrim is a better game than Oblivion, their are things going on (like the rebellion) that don't wait around for the Dovakin to get on with it, their will be sieges and storms, whether you are involved or not.   The dragons will be wrecking face, the high elves will be being gits, etc etc.  Oblivion didn't really have that feeling (to me) the gates opened and wrecked the immidiate area..then sat their waiting to be closed.

[abaris]

Vilegrim wrote...

Skyrim is a better game than Oblivion, their are things going on (like the rebellion) that don't wait around for the Dovakin to get on with it, their will be sieges and storms, whether you are involved or not.   The dragons will be wrecking face, the high elves will be being gits, etc etc.  Oblivion didn't really have that feeling (to me) the gates opened and wrecked the immidiate area..then sat their waiting to be closed.

Yet the weakness in the storytelling department is still there. You're John or Jane Doe throughout the whole game. The world simply doesn't react to your achievements. What's worse, the world doesn't even react to the death of plot characters. They are still present in the dialogue options.

I play Bethesda games for the world, but certainly not for story. They had a better go at storytelling and reactive world with Fallout 3, but that's a one off to this day.

[Elhanan]

abaris wrote...

Yet the weakness in the storytelling department is still there. You're John or Jane Doe throughout the whole game. The world simply doesn't react to your achievements. What's worse, the world doesn't even react to the death of plot characters. They are still present in the dialogue options.

I play Bethesda games for the world, but certainly not for story. They had a better go at storytelling and reactive world with Fallout 3, but that's a one off to this day.

Agreed that one does not get the respect one maybe due, but we must be playing a different game if your NPC's are not reacting to events. Such as:

* NPC's addressing you differently after Main Quest.
* NPC's acknowledge you took out the Dark Brotherhood.
* Guards address you as a member of the Companions.
* NPC's mention Daedric artifacts carried in inventory.
* NPC's note armor sets, spell usage, spell schools, Sneak, Lockpick, and other perks, etc.

One could receive more accolades perhaps, but what is there is very nice indeed.

Modifié par Elhanan, 12 décembre 2012 - 06:31 .

[abaris]

Elhanan wrote...

Agreed that one does not get the respect one maybe due, but we must be playing a different game if your NPC's are not reacting to events. Such as:

* NPC's addressing you differently after Main Quest.
* NPC's acknowledge you took out the Dark Brotherhood.
* Guards address you as a member of the Companions.
* NPC's mention Daedric artifacts carried in inventory.
* NPC's note armor sets, spell usage, spell schools, Sneak, Lockpick, and other perks, etc.

One could receive more accolades perhaps, but what is there is very nice indeed.

Yeah, they do. But that's small stuff. If I personally make Ulfric one head shorter, there are still NPCs rambling on about future exploits of Ulfric if he was to win the rebellion.

That's Bethesda stuff and if you're prepared for it, you almost expect it to happen, but it makes you less inclined to follow their storyline and just keep to exploring the world. You never will get a sense of achievement. Even if making Nerevarine in Morrowind a guard would arrest you for not dressing appropriately.

Bethesda games only live and breathe because of their open world and because of their modability.

Modifié par abaris, 12 décembre 2012 - 06:41 .

[Elhanan]

abaris wrote...

Yeah, they do. But that's small stuff. If I personally make Ulfric one head shorter, there are still NPCs rambling on about future exploits of Ulfric if he was to win the rebellion.

That's Bethesda stuff and if you're prepared for it, you almost expect it to happen, but it makes you less inclined to follow their storyline and just keep to exploring the world. You never will get a sense of achievement. Even if making Nerevarine in Morrowind a guard would arrest you for not dressing appropriately.

Bethesda games only live and breathe because of their open world and because of their modability.

If one concludes the Civil War quest, NPC's do mention what occured, though it may not be praises. And this 'small stuff' gave the world at least one layer more of immersion, more than being without it.

But overall, these sweeping statements of Bethesda are false; perhaps not to you directly, but it hardly can be said for everyone. It certainly does not speak for me and many of those that herald Skyrim as GOTY.

[LTD]

Well, DA II had pathetic approach to art style. Skyrim on the other hand looks magnificient. It sounds like a good thing.
Does it look like a good thing?

[Elhanan]

Personally, I liked the artistic style chosen for DA2, but much prefer the Darkspawn depicted from DAA. And seeing that a much greater area will be used in DA3, we will most likely see those environs become more varied and detailed like in DAO and Skyrim.

[abaris]

Elhanan wrote...

But overall, these sweeping statements of Bethesda are false; perhaps not to you directly, but it hardly can be said for everyone. It certainly does not speak for me and many of those that herald Skyrim as GOTY.

I guess it boils down to tastes. I couldn't get enough of their Fallout 3 and kept thinking, finally they got it. But in my book, Skyrim was an actual step back from what they had in place with Fallout andf therefore a major letdown for me.

[Elhanan]

Cannot speak to the Fallout series, as it is a series of games I have chosen not to play but that is another kettle of fish.If ineteraction can be made better, then I am for it, but what was in Skyrim was fine and dandy exept for making the DB a known Nordic celeb.

[batlin]

That's just concept art. Not enough to judge whether it will be like Skyrim.

[lunamoondragon]

I personally have never been able to stand open-world games. I understand that many people love them, but the linear storyline was a reason I've liked Bioware games so much.

I really worry about this... Exploration is fantastic, but my own ineptitude will certainly lead to countless hours of stumbling around lost.

[Yrkoon]

abaris wrote...


Yet the weakness in the storytelling department is still there.

With any massive  400+ hour game, it's going to be hit and miss with the writing.   Some quests feel like they were written by a 10 year old.  But some are so well written they put Bioware to shame.      For example:  I'd rank   Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood and Dawnguard questlines about 3 magnitudes higher in Storywriting/Storytelling than anything I've seen from Bioware  since maybe BG2's main questline, or perhaps  NWN: HotU

abaris wrote...
You're John or Jane Doe throughout the whole game.

You mean,  you're John and Jane Dovakiin throughout the whole game.

Of course the game, and just about everyone in it, Reacts to your accomplishments.    They over-react.   To the point where the only  type of character you cannot successfully role play in Skyrim to any meaningful degree is an annonymous commoner, since the minute you accidently do something noteworthy,  people from every corner of the province will suddenly start commenting about it.   Even people you've never met.   Ditto with any skills you advance, even the mundane ones.  Get your speech skills to 30 and passer-bys will  start commenting about your "honeyed words"  and your "bartering" skills.   It happens so often that you'll eventually get sick of it.

And anyone who knows anything about Shouts and your character's ability to absorb dragon souls, will instantly revere you.  Even the enemy.


But forget all that.  What are we comparing Skyrim   to?  Dragon Age?   Seriously?  Show me    DA's reactivity and quest writing.  Show me where I can find a well written chanter's board quest.  Show me where the world reacts to the fact that I'm a blood mage flinging blood magic on the streets of Kirkwall. LOL.

How about  some perspective here, People.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote... *snip*

But forget all that.  What are we comparing Skyrim   to?  Dragon Age?   Seriously?  Show me    DA's reactivity and quest writing.  Show me where I can find a well written chanter's board quest.  Show me where the world reacts to the fact that I'm a blood mage flinging blood magic on the streets of Kirkwall. LOL.

How about  some perspective here, People.

Personally, I like the the writing and character of Sebastian until the famous scream. And Kirkwall is literally veiled to ignore magics due to the high concentration of demonic ties to the area. Almost all points of contention are mentioned before entering the city, or by those with close ties to the fade like Anders.

And again, I find the writing of DA and DA2 superior to that of Skyrim, though I found TES V to be a more enjoyable game than DA2.

[shedevil3001]

considering skrim is an open world game and dragon ages are not as open world, it makes no sense to compare these games to each other, and just to point out, i love both skyrim and the dragon ages, they have their good points and their bad points just like every game, and to be fair dragon age was mostly well written, sure some parts could have been better, but at least the devs are taking notes and listening to their fans, which is more than most do, lets face it though they cant make everyone happy, but at least they are trying to find some middle ground, so cut them some slack

[JimboGee]

Based on what? Concept art...uh ok. Skrim- set in a Nordic area. Dragon age- set in Orlais, based on France. Skyrim- dragon born. Dragon age- Inquisition. How are these two in anyway alike ? they couldn't be more apart unless you stuck aliens in the mix. ****s who write articles like that should stay where they belong.... in a hole in the ground.

[abaris]

Elhanan wrote...

And again, I find the writing of DA and DA2 superior to that of Skyrim, though I found TES V to be a more enjoyable game than DA2.

What's more, both games are usually played for different reasons. If you played the TES series, you don't expect brilliance in the writing department. It's all about open world and, if you're lucky enough to be on the PC, about modability.

Bioware games I used to play for entirely different reasons. Not even story related although I have to say, up to the last couple of games, their stories haven't been original, but at least comprehensive and satidfying. I play Bioware game mostly for the companions.

[Elhanan]

abaris wrote...

What's more, both games are usually played for different reasons. If you played the TES series, you don't expect brilliance in the writing department. It's all about open world and, if you're lucky enough to be on the PC, about modability.

Bioware games I used to play for entirely different reasons. Not even story related although I have to say, up to the last couple of games, their stories haven't been original, but at least comprehensive and satidfying. I play Bioware game mostly for the companions.

For myself, it is not just the Bioware tale, but how they tell it. The dialogues are tremendous; addictive. I have caught myself starting to quote lines from their stories:

" Would you like fries with that order?"
" What I want is to see mountains. I wish to witness the ocean and step into its waters."

However, for Skyrim being my first sandbox and TES game, I did enjoy the writing of the stories, though the telling could be improved. And there are notable exceptions. The Frostflow Lighthouse is a sad, emotionally charged tale that gave me the visceral jolt needed to wage a private war with the Falmer. I ceased feeling sorry for them, and they became my targets. Just a small dungeon story, but one that is memorble and oft repeated.

Note: read those journals.

[Jugo616]

Skyrim has the explorability. And that is it. Its story telling is terrible, caracter developement pathetic, the million story lines that can be done has no recognition of each other. And the marry sue level of the main carracter is beond words.

DA2 wasn't good. But it was better then Skyrim.