491 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Bob Garbage wrote...

Which makes little sense, as it's a far stronger game than DA:O in in all regards accept maybe story, but that's because it has thousands of stories in it. And really, most of them are great.

In a novel, the story is the only thing that matters, and Bioware's are simply better.

Skyrim is a shallow world with shallow characters. Any "story" is hampered by a complete lack of effort on the part of the writers to make you give even half a crap about the world or anyone in it. What do I care if Alduin eats a bunch of cardboard cutouts?

The Elder Scrolls series has been churning out the same simple stories over and over and over again for decades, like a magazine repeating the same celebrity gossip over and over again. The faction quests are particularly egregious examples.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 09 décembre 2012 - 02:16 .

[slimgrin]

Plaintiff wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

Which makes little sense, as it's a far stronger game than DA:O in in all regards accept maybe story, but that's because it has thousands of stories in it. And really, most of them are great.

In a novel, the story is the only thing that matters, and Bioware's are simply better.

Skyrim is a shallow world with shallow characters. Any "story" is hampered by a complete lack of effort on the part of the writers to make you give even half a crap about the world or anyone in it. What do I care if Alduin eats a bunch of cardboard cutouts?

The Elder Scrolls series has been churning out the same simple stories over and over and over again for decades, like a magazine repeating the same celebrity gossip over and over again. The faction quests are particularly egregious examples.

And yet Bethesda takes their time with sequels, unlike Bioware who crapped out DA2 like it was a bad case of diarrhea. Their legacy with ES games puts DA to shame quite frankly. Bioware bombed their second time out. Look at the reviews. Every ES game has been well recieved.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 décembre 2012 - 02:36 .

[Plaintiff]

slimgrin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

Which makes little sense, as it's a far stronger game than DA:O in in all regards accept maybe story, but that's because it has thousands of stories in it. And really, most of them are great.

In a novel, the story is the only thing that matters, and Bioware's are simply better.

Skyrim is a shallow world with shallow characters. Any "story" is hampered by a complete lack of effort on the part of the writers to make you give even half a crap about the world or anyone in it. What do I care if Alduin eats a bunch of cardboard cutouts?

The Elder Scrolls series has been churning out the same simple stories over and over and over again for decades, like a magazine repeating the same celebrity gossip over and over again. The faction quests are particularly egregious examples.

And yet Bethesda takes their time with sequels, unlike Bioware who crapped out DA2 like it was a bad case of diarrhea. Their legacy with ES games puts DA to shame quite frankly. Bioware bombed their second time out. Look at the reviews. Every ES game has been well recieved.

Why should I care about the opinions of a bunch of people who are not me?

The fact that it takes Bethesda a billion years to produce a game exactly like the last one is not something that should be praised.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 09 décembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

Which makes little sense, as it's a far stronger game than DA:O in in all regards accept maybe story, but that's because it has thousands of stories in it. And really, most of them are great.

In a novel, the story is the only thing that matters, and Bioware's are simply better.

Skyrim is a shallow world with shallow characters. Any "story" is hampered by a complete lack of effort on the part of the writers to make you give even half a crap about the world or anyone in it. What do I care if Alduin eats a bunch of cardboard cutouts?

The Elder Scrolls series has been churning out the same simple stories over and over and over again for decades, like a magazine repeating the same celebrity gossip over and over again. The faction quests are particularly egregious examples.

And yet Bethesda takes their time with sequels, unlike Bioware who crapped out DA2 like it was a bad case of diarrhea. Their legacy with ES games puts DA to shame quite frankly. Bioware bombed their second time out. Look at the reviews. Every ES game has been well recieved.

Why should I care about the opinions of a bunch of people who are not me?

The fact that it takes Bethesda a billion years to produce a game exactly like the last one is not something that should be praised.

There are some pretty huge differences between each Elder Scrolls games. Just sayin...

[FaWa]

lol@ saying Arena=Daggerfall=Morrowind=Oblivion=Skyrim

[LPPrince]

To echo what Allan said, but on the flip side-

This thread is not going to be particularly productive if all people are doing is coming in here to share how much they think Skyrim sucks and why.

This thread isn't about that. Its about how DA developers are taking a look at Skyrim, discovering what made the game so successful, and then taking those ideas, changing them, morphing them, and possibly adding these ideas in their own style into the next DA game.

Is that a good thing or bad thing? Up to you. But can we all try not to just say "Skyrim is awesome DA BLOWS" or "Dragon Age is awesome, SKYRIM BLOWS"?

The developers are trying to be productive, so lets try to be ourselves.

[DarkSpiral]

Plaintiff wrote...

The fact that it takes Bethesda a billion years to produce a game exactly like the last one is not something that should be praised.

"Stop liking what I don't like."

That gets tossed around a lot on the internet.  So, at least you aren't alone.

The point of a Bethesda game has raely been about the story.  Its always been about completing a given task in whatever manner you want to d it.  S&B, stealth, magic (and there any many styles lumped under "magic).  About they only thing they don't typically do in a TES game is let you talk your way through some of the game's major plot points.

I love both game series, and I love them for what they are, not what they never intended to be.

[FaWa]

What made skyrim successful:

-Fans were excited by new features
-Good advertising campaign
-Detail
-9 Race choices, felt like you were making your own character

What made DA2 not successful:

-Everything leading up to release was bad news about things getting taken out. Fans not excited
-No advertising campaign
-No detail
-Felt like you were playing Biowares character

[DarkSpiral]

FaWa wrote...

What made skyrim successful:

-Fans were excited by new features
-Good advertising campaign
-Detail
-9 Race choices, felt like you were making your own character

What made DA2 not successful:

-Everything leading up to release was bad news about things getting taken out. Fans not excited
-No advertising campaign
-No detail
-Felt like you were playing Biowares character

In the spirit of the topic, rather than the recent posts that either slam one game or the other, why do you put so much emphasis on race choices?  To be honest, my racial choice had relatively little impact on my various playthroughs of Skyrim.  Or Oblivion, or Morrowind.

As for the advertsing campaign...the advertisments are not what polarized the reaction to DA2.

And please elaborate on what youmean by "detail?"  Detail in...ads?  character builds?

[Atakuma]

FaWa wrote...

What made skyrim successful:

-Fans were excited by new features
-Good advertising campaign
-Detail
-9 Race choices, felt like you were making your own character

What made DA2 not successful:

-Everything leading up to release was bad news about things getting taken out. Fans not excited
-No advertising campaign
-No detail
-Felt like you were playing Biowares character

What made Skyrim successful:

-Hype

What made DA2 unsuccessful:

-whatever the opposite of hype is

[LPPrince]

You know FaWa, I never thought about it, but yeah!

Advertising.

It doesn't change whats actually in the game(and lets be honest, a good game will sell itself), but advertising will change opinions prior to release.

I was hyped like hell for Skyrim, and it was my FIRST Elder Scrolls title. They did a fantastic job with it(the advertising). For example-

22 minute Skyrim demo by Todd Howard

and Bioware did something similar. Except it was with Dragon Age Origins- my first DA title.

Dragon Age Origins demo (Part One)

^and there's more that follow that up

But the advertising with DA2 did nothing to really make me excited for it. When they showed the art style, I thought it only looked like that because it was still in Alpha.

Turns out it really just looked like that.

Kinda bummed me out, and not just me, either. They could do a better job getting the hype train up.

[Elhanan]

Looking forward to this game... a lot! Having a combo of DAO and Skyrim; a game with the strengths of both makes my face ache from smiling too much!

And one does not require multiple races to allow for customization and indv choice in CC; a bit of a false premise.

[Ianamus]

It depends what aspects of Skyrim they use to be honest. While I do love Skyrim I love it for completely different reasons than why I love, say Dragon Age: Origins.

Skyrim is great because of it's open world and near complete freedom of choice. While DA3 may implement this that level of freedom would not really be possible in a narrative-driven game like a Bioware game.

Also I'm completely willing to admit that while Skyrim is great it's characters are nearly all as flat as a pancake. It doesn't matter in Skyrim because the game is all about the world and the freedom of exploration, but in a Bioware game (which is all about the characters for me) it would be a disaster.

I certainly wouldn't mind if they used Skyrims revamp of the races from Oblivion as a basis for where to take the elves though (and to a lesser extent the dwarves). Skyrim was an example of how to make elves look more alien while still looking attractive, something Dragon Age 2 failed rather badly at (in-game model wise anyway, the concept art was fine). 

so yeah, It depends exactly what aspects they use. It makes me hopeful that it will lead the game in a good direction, but I don't want a visual copy-paste of Skyrim.

Actually, thinking about how limited and dull the environments and locations in Dragon Age 2 were maybe taking a long hard look at Skyrim, which is all about the world, is exactly what they need to do. 

Modifié par EJ107, 09 décembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[Nefla]

I don't know how I feel about DA being inspired by Skyrim...I mean it's better than being inspired by CoD but still. I freaking adore Skyrim, I have hundreds of gameplay hours and a dozen characters but Skyrim is Skyrim and Bethesda is awesome at making huge open worlds full of little details and hidden things and exploration, a million quests, fun combat,etc...BW games from ME2 and earlier were great with characters and storytelling. I never played a BW game because of the peripheral stuff like crafting or combat or whatever it was always only for the story and the characters. With DA2 and ME3 it felt like there was a big shift away from the things that made the previous games amazing and just stuffed in things that people who played OTHER games might like, aspects that worked in OTHER games instead of working with what they used to do best, what used to draw me in.

Would it be amazing to have a game like Skyrim with the huge world and all the active NPCs that had their own lives and added life to the world all the exploration, character customization, crafting, huge side questlines that were really fun (ex: dark brotherhood) but with the deep, interesting characters and enthralling plot of older BW games? Heck yes it would! But that's not going to happen. They don't have the experience with that type of game, they don't have the budget, the development time, what I fear will happen instead is a watered down mess of a game that half-tries for the strengths of both games at once but captures the strength of neither.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Bob Garbage wrote...

I love how some people hate on Skyrim because they have to...omg....role play a little bit while playing the game.

And I love it how people praise Bethesda for doing nothing, for letting them do what they can do in any game.

But please, I am an ignorant fool, please teach me to make the Elder Scrolls games better by "roleplaying".

[LinksOcarina]

Bob Garbage wrote...

I love how some people hate on Skyrim because they have to...omg....role play a little bit while playing the game.

Ironically thats a problem with Skyrim too. 

My first character was a Breton Conjurer so already I was hated by the Stormcloaks and loathed by the Imperials, so me joining either side of the rebellion made no sense.

And yet, when I was forced to make peace with them , they welcomed me with open arms after seeing me use magic in front of them, even though many on the two sides were openly against my characters existance.

Sometimes roleplaying in Elder Scrolls is impossible because the mechanics get in the way. It's like how crappy table tops destroy role playing because of unecessary mechanics or being too free form of a system. 

[Thomas Andresen]

I only skimmed the article, but it seems to me that they're putting words in BioWare's proverbial mouth. Interpreting that the developers have said that the game will rely more heavily on character customisation as "Meaning, the players will only have one race available, human, but that human will have a customized look for each player." seems a bit of a stretch imo.

I think people needs to stop reading between the lines so much. Nothing good ever comes of it.

[LinksOcarina]

Thomas Andresen wrote...

I only skimmed the article, but it seems to me that they're putting words in BioWare's proverbial mouth. Interpreting that the developers have said that the game will rely more heavily on character customisation as "Meaning, the players will only have one race available, human, but that human will have a customized look for each player." seems a bit of a stretch imo.

I think people needs to stop reading between the lines so much. Nothing good ever comes of it.

Of course they are.

Sadly this is an example of that shoddy journalism I keep harping on. 

[Travie]

The castle management thing sounds promising. I've always loved building a 'stronghold' for my guys.

[TheFinalDoctor]

I love how people are freaking out thinking that DA:I will be a Skyrim clone because of this statement. Do they really think that Bioware would change the entire setup of an established and relatively successful franchise? If there's one thing Skyrim did right it was the setting, and DA2 defiantly wasn't all that up to snuff in that regard, so there is no way that this is bad news in any way, shape, or form.

[Sonowske21]

I'm pretty happy with this. Others may not feel the same, but look at it this way: they could have picked a worse model for DA3.

[Volus Warlord]

Just have no expectations for anything and you will be pleasantly surprised.

[HTTP 404]

Broxert wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Broxert wrote...

God I hope not, Skyrim bored the crud out of me.

I get it.  Its like people who prefer magazines over novels.

Oh look, someones looking down their nose at me. Hey, hey up there. Whats it like up there, way up high on your pedestal?

hey, nothing wrong with magazines.

[Allan Schumacher]

Bob Garbage wrote...

I love how some people hate on Skyrim because they have to...omg....role play a little bit while playing the game. Also, judging any game, but, that game in particular after two hours of playing it is so damn ridiculous.

I don't think that's fair.  There's a lot of variation in what people look for in an RPG.  I haven't picked up Skyrim because Oblivion was so decidedly unfun for me.  Unfortunately, despite not having much fun in the first two hours of Oblivion, I trudged on hoping it would get better.  In the end I spent dozens of hours on the game, but ultimately didn't really feel like I had any fun while doing so.  I liked the assassin and thieves guild quests, but aside from that, I wish I had realized I wasn't having fun earlier.

Skyrim is still on my radar, but only when I catch up on the backlog and the price is acceptable for what I expect.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

I love how some people hate on Skyrim because they have to...omg....role play a little bit while playing the game.

Ironically thats a problem with Skyrim too. 

My first character was a Breton Conjurer so already I was hated by the Stormcloaks and loathed by the Imperials, so me joining either side of the rebellion made no sense.

Both sides are desperate?

You were caught along with Ulfred and sentence to death with the rest of stormcloaks. That already made you one of the stormcloaks whether you realize it or not. However, should you choose to help Hadvar, who show no sign of hatred toward a Breton, then I do not see why Hadvar won't recommmended you to join the imperials.

LinksOcarina wrote...

And yet, when I was forced to make peace with them , they welcomed me with open arms after seeing me use magic in front of them, even though many on the two sides were openly against my characters existance.

Both sides know that. And that's precisely why you're a valid candidate for peace talks. You are the only neutral party there. 

LinksOcarina wrote...
Sometimes roleplaying in Elder Scrolls is impossible because the mechanics get in the way. It's like how crappy table tops destroy role playing because of unecessary mechanics or being too free form of a system.

What unnessary mechanics?

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 09 décembre 2012 - 08:08 .