491 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Villiamus wrote...

adf.ly/246203/banner/tgdaily.feedsportal.com/c/34563/f/632437/s/264d2f07/l/0Lm0Btgdaily0N0Centertainment0C678820Edragon0Eage0Eiii0Elooking0Emore0Eand0Emore0Elike0Eskyrim/story01.htm


what do you think good or bad, I personally think good if bioware melds the explorabiliy of skyrim and the great writing they've done before your looking at a high dragon of a game.

DUDE what is this link crap?

Ad.fly? WHAT IS THIS? DID YOU JUST GIVE ME A VIRUS WTF? MAN

[Allan Schumacher]

I have replaced the link. (You shouldn't have a virus, but it was jumping through some ad system)

[David7204]

I was incredibly excited excited for Skyrim. And incredibly disappointed. I didn't even finish it, which I never would have belived considering how much I enjoyed their previous work.

Horrible story, with lame sidequests. Which is a shame since Fallout 3 probably has the best sidequests in any game I've played. Many of the things that were talked about extensively in the previews didn't appear at all. They talked about having systems to have wind affect the water, have snow and rain fall realistically on foilage, increase the draw distance by a huge amount...

If those things are there in the actual game, I certainly don't see them.

Not a single character that I thought was interesting and worth caring about. I was blown away by Max Von Sydow's outstanding soliloquy that they released as a preview of the sound design, and sure he was going to end up as some really cool mentor or something of the sort. And he ends up being an unlikeable one-dimensonal character whose only purpose is to constantly whine that the end of the world is coming.

The choice the player has to make between the Blades And Greybeards should serve as a lesson as how not to do choices in video games. That was the nail in the coffin. The only two driving characters of the story turned incredible petty and unlikeable, and I was powerless as a player to do anything meaningful. That was when I said "I don't care what happens to these people," and lost interest in the story completely.

Modifié par David7204, 09 décembre 2012 - 09:07 .

[TEWR]

Plaintiff wrote...

In a novel, the story is the only thing that matters, and Bioware's are simply better.

Opinions would differ on that, obviously. I think Skyrim portrayed the Empire-Stormcloak dichotomy very well, especially in light of the growing Thalmor threat on the outside of that war.

Whereas DAII's portrayal of the Mage-Templar conflict was decidedly... rushed.

Skyrim is a shallow world with shallow characters. Any "story" is hampered by a complete lack of effort on the part of the writers to make you give even half a crap about the world or anyone in it. What do I care if Alduin eats a bunch of cardboard cutouts?

The Dark Brotherhood's characters are not shallow. The Thieves' Guild's characters aren't shallow. The Companions aren't shallow, especially Aela. Ulfric and Tullius aren't shallow characters. A lot of other characters aren't shallow. Paarthurnax is not shallow. All of those things have a good/great story behind them.

I think it's a bit unfair to expect you to be able to get to know every single person in the game in extravagant detail just so you can care about the world. The DA series doesn't even do that. Hell, people on the DA forums will defend characters who have just as much characterization -- or less -- as some of Skyrim's characters, possibly even citing them as some of their favorites.

The Elder Scrolls series has been churning out the same simple stories over and over and over again for decades, like a magazine repeating the same celebrity gossip over and over again. The faction quests are particularly egregious examples.

From what I know of the ES series, no, they have not. Skyrim's main story is not the same as Oblivion's. They're similar in that they're save the world stories, but they are not "the same simple stories" because they have different reasons for happening, different characters as a part of the main story, and so on.

And while I can't comment on the faction quests, I highly doubt Oblivion had the same exact stories as sKyrim's factions do.

[LolaLei]

Physically any medieval-ish environment in a game is gonna look roughly similar to another medieval-ish environment in a different game regardless of what the story is about. I mean, there's only so many ways you can make grassy mountainous areas and dank dark caverns look spectacularly different lol.

But anyway, just because DA3 may have taken some aesthetical inspiration from Skyrim, doesn't mean the whole game is gonna be a carbon copy. They've already clarified several times that story and character evolution/interaction is still as important as it's always been.

Modifié par LolaLei, 09 décembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Reznore57]

I just started playing Skyrim ...and the world!
It feels alive , cities feels alive , pnj walk around , go to bed , eat etc...
Random dragon attack...
A lot of object are interactive , even if you can't do much it's nice.

If the DA team manage to create a world that feels like this on a smaller scale ,they would probably blow my mind.

I can't talk about quest etc , haven't played much ...

[Darkly Tranquil]

I certainly hope the only thing they include from Skyrim's design is an exploration element (if they must), I found everything else about Skyrim terribly disappointing. It was a game that looked great, but really felt incredibly hollow. It seemed like all the design effort went into the world, and nothing into the story. Given that Bioware games are all about the story, that would be a perilous path for DAIII to tread. I played Skyrim for about 2 hours, decided the story sucked, none of the characters had any substance, combat was terrible, and never booted it up again.

Personally, I would much prefer a more limited environmental scope (in the style of discrete areas rather than an open world; DA:O/DA2 style) with a rich story and interesting characters, than an open world populated by cardboard cutout characters. If Clinton's mantra was "Its the economy, stupid", Bioware's should be "Its the story and characters, stupid".

[Elhanan]

David7204 wrote...

I was incredibly excited excited for Skyrim. And incredibly disappointed. I didn't even finish it, which I never would have belived considering how much I enjoyed their previous work.

Horrible story, with lame sidequests. Which is a shame since Fallout 3 probably has the best sidequests in any game I've played. Many of the things that were talked about extensively in the previews didn't appear at all. They talked about having systems to have wind affect the water, have snow and rain fall realistically on foilage, increase the draw distance by a huge amount...

If those things are there in the actual game, I certainly don't see them.

Not a single character that I thought was interesting and worth caring about. I was blown away by Max Von Sydow's outstanding soliloquy that they released as a preview of the sound design, and sure he was going to end up as some really cool mentor or something of the sort. And he ends up being an unlikeable one-dimensonal character whose only purpose is to constantly whine that the end of the world is coming.

The choice the player has to make between the Blades And Greybeards should serve as a lesson as how not to do choices in video games. That was the nail in the coffin. The only two driving characters of the story turned incredible petty and unlikeable, and I was powerless as a player to do anything meaningful. That was when I said "I don't care what happens to these people," and lost interest in the story completely.

Strange; enjoyed the Main Quest and many sidequests, esp those of the Dark Brotherhood, Greybeards, and Dawnguard. While I do agree the tales are not of the same calibur as DAO, the writing in the texts and stories of the Companions and Frost Flow Lighthouse is top rate; moving and evoking.

And the snow, rain, water effects do seem to be there, as well as the highly detailed lands about them.

Personally, I thought it was grand to have Christopher Plummer and Max Von Sydow as rival mentors, though I chose CP every time. This was in part to the wonderful VO and writing of Paarthurnax, which may be the best VO in the game, IMO.

And while compelling characters may or may not abound, that will be a subjective call for each Player. Personally, I was motivated more to oppose the villains of the piece rather than find those to inspire me to greatness; like rooting against certain football teams can almost be as much fun as having one team to support.

While your opinion is valid, my experience is quite different, as are the opinions of a great many fans spending hours playing and posting of this GOTY.

Modifié par Elhanan, 09 décembre 2012 - 10:44 .

[Shevy]

I wouldn't read too much into it. Sure, Skyrim was very successfull which makes looking into it to find parts of the game they did better than you with your product reasonable. As much as I hate DA II and their "wider audience" direction BioWare tried to go with it, I don't think that they'll throw away core elements of DA and replace them with Skyrims just to be on par with Skyrims sale numbers. Or better said, I hope that they'll not do this.

But a RPG gamer nowadays could get the impression that Skyrim became the CoD of the RPG-branch. Dark Souls II was announcend at the VGAs with changing lead directors and the first info you get is:

"We sympathise if that sort of statement concerns you, but at the same
time, we can surely agree that we would all like to see Dark Souls
attain as great a presence as The Elder Scrolls. How it gets there is a
worthy matter for debate, but it's certainly a noble task."

http://www.computera...or-steps-aside/

And thus as a fan of the Souls series I'm concerned that they'll throw away what made the games so great , imo.

As much as I liked Skyrim for what it was and for what it wasn't, it's starting to become a plague of the RPG-branch

Modifié par Shevy_001, 09 décembre 2012 - 11:04 .

[Yrkoon]

David7204 wrote...
 I didn't even finish it,

This isn't saying much.   I loved every hour  I've played  of skyrim.  All 1200 of them.    But I've never finished Skyrim either.   Most people don't.   Mainly because you can't.   Technically or otherwise.   Some questlines  (including some major faction questlines) go on forever.  And also because the term "main quest" is a misnomer in Elder scroll games.  They're never anything more than   a structure  tool that is  required to call something a game.  In reality, ES games simply present you with a world. And this world is the main objective.  And   Like  the real world,  there's a bajillion "stories", "quests", Motivations" and events, all going on at the same time.    And who's to say which one is "the most important"?

That said,  For me, I didn't particularly like Skyrim's 'main' story either.  Not because it was poorly written  (it wasn't,  it was a brilliantly written story from beginning to end.   It just wasn't my cup of tea), so after doing it once, I never completed it again

Instead, I loved everything else.  I loved  belonging to an assassin guild and going on missions for it.  I loved fighting and celebrating with the Companions at the mead hall.  I loved   coming up with my own "Main Quest", then pursuing it to completion then retiring at my mansion  (I made it a goal to become a millionare Thief, and then  leaving the limelight and  retiring at my estate in the lap of luxury with my wife, my dog and my trophy room.)  I loved Ransacking the town of Ivarstead.  I loved assassinating the emperor.  I loved wiping out Vampires in their stronghold.  I loved building my Houses.  I loved mountain climbing at midnight and  then looking up at the Auroras and the moons, I loved dungeon crawling for sport.  I loved Hunting  down Thalmor as they patrol   the roads... MY roads  etc.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 décembre 2012 - 12:16 .

[Leoroc]

Not to be too offtopic, but I did not enjoy Oblivion either Allan. Skyrim was a blast though.

[Yrkoon]

But back on topic: Do I want Skyrim in my Dragon Age? Well, No. Not completely. But Bioware can learn a lot from Skyrim. And Dragon Age 3 would be all the richer experience if it included a bit more exploration, a bit more player agency, and a lot more detail. detail in everything, from codex entries, to loot, to book shelves.

Lets at least take THAT  much from skyrim, and combine it with Bioware's amazing story-telling and companion depth, and then I think  we could see a masterpiece.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 décembre 2012 - 12:23 .

[DarkSpiral]

Yrkoon wrote...

But back on topic: Do I want Skyrim in my Dragon Age? Well, No. Not completely. But Bioware can learn a lot from Skyrim. And Dragon Age 3 would be all the richer experience if it included a bit more exploration, a bit more player agency, and a lot more detail. detail in everything, from codex entries, to loot, to book shelves.

Lets at least take THAT  much from skyrim, and combine it with Bioware's amazing story-telling and companion depth, and then I think  we could see a masterpiece.

As others have pointed out, getting this kind of "imspiration" from Skyrim is effectively the same thing as returning the world exploration as it was in the BG series.  It wasn't the level of freedom TES games offered, and didn't try to be.  But the limitations seemed less arbitrary.  I'd be thrilled.

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

Some people in this thread believe Black Ops II is an RPG. Choices affecting story...there you go! BO2.

Mechanics getting in the way? What, Skyrim's robust alchemy system? Enchanting? Smithing from raw materials? Their nearly 100 spells catagorized into five schools: Destruction, Restoration, Illusion, Alteration and Conjuration? The statistics on basically everything? NPC banter commenting based on how you are playing and what you're doing?

For a game called Dragon Age, Skyrim actually had real dragons, too. Dynamic fights. And they will one-bite critical attack you, too, in insta-death fashion. Is absorbing a dragon soul and matching that with a discovered word of the dragon-tongue too hard?

The underlying story isn't told through shiny cutscenes, but through NPC dialogue combined with books and letters....particularly quest letters. And what was DAII's plot again? Mages vs. Templar? Yawn! I will take the Aldmeri Dominion....a race of highly advanced foreign elves transcending into Tamriel, trying to isolate and politically control individual providences through war and repeal of religions and causing civil wars....as they gather their strength and magicka for total control of populations.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Reznore57 wrote...

I just started playing Skyrim ...and the world!
It feels alive , cities feels alive , pnj walk around , go to bed , eat etc...
Random dragon attack...
A lot of object are interactive , even if you can't do much it's nice.

That's what I've been saying. It's all about details and interactivity. If they manage to make Kirkwall alive and full of interactivty with objects and surrounding like GTA, Kirkwall won't feel too much confined and restricted. Tons of quests just didn't cut it. It only makes the playable area feel repetitive.   

Reznore57 wrote...

If the DA team manage to create a world that feels like this on a smaller scale ,they would probably blow my mind.

Oh.. I have no doubt they could blow most people mind

Reznore57 wrote...


I can't talk about quest etc , haven't played much ...

Try the Dark Brotherhood. But be warned, if you're playing a two goody shoe character, then you'll not going to like it. The Dark Brotherhood are for Assasins. You need to be cold blood, selfish and probably evil. It's all about completing the missions. No personal feeling. It's pure and simple.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 09 décembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[henkez3]

I think this thread is a perfect example of why BioWare's "We won't show you anything until we have something worthwhile to show" for DA3 is a really smart idea.

[Yrkoon]

So are you saying that this thread is a good thing? or a bad thing? Because this entire discussion spawned from the 3 concept art pieces that Bioware has publically released  in the OP's link.

 In other words, Bioware DID show us something, and this thread is the result.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 décembre 2012 - 12:55 .

[Bernhardtbr]

Shevy_001 wrote...

"We sympathise if that sort of statement concerns you, but at the same
time, we can surely agree that we would all like to see Dark Souls
attain as great a presence as The Elder Scrolls. How it gets there is a
worthy matter for debate, but it's certainly a noble task."

http://www.computera...or-steps-aside/

And thus as a fan of the Souls series I'm concerned that they'll throw away what made the games so great , imo.

As much as I liked Skyrim for what it was and for what it wasn't, it's starting to become a plague of the RPG-branch

You misunderstood the quote. They don´t want to make DS like Skyrim, but a franchise just as well known - and well known for doing things differently.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Yrkoon wrote...

So are you saying that this thread is a good thing? or a bad thing? Because this entire discussion spawned from the 3 concept art pieces that Bioware has publically released  in the OP's link.

 In other words, Bioware DID show us something, and this thread is the result.

Well to be fair the Doctors did say that they totally wanted DA3 to be a skyrim clone, or something along those lines, you know how these quotes always get blown out of proportion right?

[coldSnap]

What i don't like about the idea is that while Skyrim has a great sandbox world, the story itself was very weak, if not completely non-existant.

I even made mutiple characters for Skyrim thinking that coming at the game from a different persepective would bring something new to the game... it didn't. Contrarily, I made many, many, many playthroughs in DA:O, DA:II, and have went through the entirety of the playtroughs about 90% of the time.

All in all, if they are compying Skyrim for anything, the sandbox aspect is fine, but please don't let it come at the price of story and character development.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

KaidanLover wrote...

What i don't like about the idea is that while Skyrim has a great sandbox world, the story itself was very weak, if not completely non-existant.

I even made mutiple characters for Skyrim thinking that coming at the game from a different persepective would bring something new to the game... it didn't. Contrarily, I made many, many, many playthroughs in DA:O, DA:II, and have went through the entirety of the playtroughs about 90% of the time.

All in all, if they are compying Skyrim for anything, the sandbox aspect is fine, but please don't let it come at the price of story and character development.

Oh I am sure if DA3 happens to do the sandbox thing and the story and characters turn out weak the sandbox will be blamed regardless of whether or not it is the cause. Just like how the multiplayer was blamed for ME3's ending.

[Atakuma]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

So are you saying that this thread is a good thing? or a bad thing? Because this entire discussion spawned from the 3 concept art pieces that Bioware has publically released  in the OP's link.

 In other words, Bioware DID show us something, and this thread is the result.

Well to be fair the Doctors did say that they totally wanted DA3 to be a skyrim clone, or something along those lines, you know how these quotes always get blown out of proportion right?

They said no such thing.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Atakuma wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

So are you saying that this thread is a good thing? or a bad thing? Because this entire discussion spawned from the 3 concept art pieces that Bioware has publically released  in the OP's link.

 In other words, Bioware DID show us something, and this thread is the result.

Well to be fair the Doctors did say that they totally wanted DA3 to be a skyrim clone, or something along those lines, you know how these quotes always get blown out of proportion right?

They said no such thing.

Well not exactly but that is how a lot of people took it, what they said however is more along the lines of "We saw Skyrim, we liked what we saw and we are looking at Skyrim for inpiration in making Dragon Age 3 more open". That is basically what was said, dont ask me to find the interview as I am too lazy to find it, I am sure that someone here will be all to happy to oblige however.

Take from that what you will whether you think it means "DA3 will be a Skyrim clone" or "DA3 will be more open" or whether it was just an empty gesture to appeal to Skyrim fans and encourage them to have a looksie.

Modifié par Gandalf-the-Fabulous, 09 décembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[Guiverno]

These games are very different. Exploration could suit DAIII unless it ends up diluting the main plot. Personally, I attach more importance to writing, although it's true that I would like to see a somewhat more open world.

Modifié par Guiverno, 09 décembre 2012 - 04:30 .

[Brodoteau]

The memories on this board are not very long... look BG was more or less an open-world with a set defined story line, so Bioware can do these sorts of games. Do I want a completely open world a la Elder Scrolls, no, because I want to finish a game and a story... but BG was fine (BG2 was a little more defined but still allowed you wander a bit).

My problem with any open world within a set story-line is that it takes away the sense of urgency. In BG if you wandered off to fight the Ogre Magi on the Sea Coast on your way to the Nashkel mines, you could justify it by thinking that you were discovering all possibilities for why the mines weren't working... or something. In BG2 and DAO though, wandering and side-questing sometimes felt downright irresponsible. In BG2 after all, your childhood friend has been kidnapped and your spending some time to fight druids that have gone crazy? Or fight dragons that have manipulated you? In DAO it was the same thing: Oh sure, I'll deliver your lyrium to that guy three towns away, we've got time (even as the Blight consumes everything). 

Now I understand that the side quests are almost necessary to make you feel more powerful, but an open-world does take away the urgency of the main quest if the world waits for you to be done some fetch quest so you can get a magic sword.

Modifié par Brodoteau, 09 décembre 2012 - 05:43 .