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Don't use a surname for the main character.


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#76
Silfren

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

They have to use surname because the protaganist is voiced, Do I like that fact, not really and it is known I prefer silent to voiced but I can understand why they are doing what they are doing. They can't record VO for every possible name people can come up with. I can understand too where your coming from you would rather he or she is called "Inquisitor" or something instead, but I don't think that meshes with Biowares 'personalisation' of their character. For the most part I think DA3 will further restrict self-insert roleplayers like myself (first person vs third person roleplaying) but hopefully this restriction is made up for in many other areas that expands not restricts the players.


Being voiced isn't the reason they have to use a surname.  They DON'T have to use one.  They could as easily use a title for a voiced PC as they did for the unvoiced Warden in Origins.  

#77
Dhiro

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Silfren wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They have to use surname because the protaganist is voiced, Do I like that fact, not really and it is known I prefer silent to voiced but I can understand why they are doing what they are doing. They can't record VO for every possible name people can come up with. I can understand too where your coming from you would rather he or she is called "Inquisitor" or something instead, but I don't think that meshes with Biowares 'personalisation' of their character. For the most part I think DA3 will further restrict self-insert roleplayers like myself (first person vs third person roleplaying) but hopefully this restriction is made up for in many other areas that expands not restricts the players.


Being voiced isn't the reason they have to use a surname.  They DON'T have to use one.  They could as easily use a title for a voiced PC as they did for the unvoiced Warden in Origins.  


Exactly. They have to use a surname - or a title or nickname or whatever - because the NPCs are voiced and eventually they run out of ways to say "you".

#78
Plaintiff

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

I hate the title usage convention and would actually prefer it if they went the other way completely and fixed the entire name.

Before anyone is shocked, this position falls neatly within my "I don't really care about choices the game does not respond to" argument, and the game does not acknowledge your custom name. 

This is my stance also, it's irritating to watch the characters dance around the fact that they can't say my name.

#79
AppealToReason

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Unrelatedly related, I loved how in Saints Row the Third you were always "boss" or names like that. Then when the one girl was all like "I can even find out your real name" and then your guy is all "Don't you even!"

#80
AppealToReason

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Manic Sheep wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

People often use my brothers last name rather than first just because his first is so common. I think the record is four others with the same name in his class.


People are not your ''close'' friend. That depend of the situation. But if you're chilling with your friend and they call you with your surname ? That just weird.

In french we have a word for this .. Called Tutoyer.

Some of his close friends do as well though. It's just how they are use to addressing him I gues.


So many people, even close friends, call me by my last name that if it weren't for Facebook I'm positive a bunch wouldn't even know my first name. It started with sports and just expanded from there to non-sports friends. Its just normal at this point. The only people that call me by my first name are family and whichever pretty girl I'm talking to at the time.

#81
Helena Tylena

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I do NOT want my protagonist to be called 'Inquisitor' by my closest friends and loved ones. That's just... bad. Using a surname makes so much more sense.

#82
Navasha

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Plaintiff wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I hate the title usage convention and would actually prefer it if they went the other way completely and fixed the entire name.

Before anyone is shocked, this position falls neatly within my "I don't really care about choices the game does not respond to" argument, and the game does not acknowledge your custom name. 

This is my stance also, it's irritating to watch the characters dance around the fact that they can't say my name.


I don't see this happening.   Its already tough to feel like the protagonist is "your" character.   Giving them a fixed first name just to fix the problem would just make that worse.  

I mean why not fix the characters class then as well.   If the protagonist could ONLY be a mage, that would clear up a lot of the vague references to their abilities as well as make it easier for the writers to have the public react to the character appropriately.   Note:   I am NOT advocating that... just pointing out how that would be an equally bad thing to do.

#83
Plaintiff

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Navasha wrote...
I don't see this happening.   Its already tough to feel like the protagonist is "your" character.   Giving them a fixed first name just to fix the problem would just make that worse.  

I mean why not fix the characters class then as well.   If the protagonist could ONLY be a mage, that would clear up a lot of the vague references to their abilities as well as make it easier for the writers to have the public react to the character appropriately.   Note:   I am NOT advocating that... just pointing out how that would be an equally bad thing to do.

Since I don't care about nor ever attempt to make a character that feels like "mine", that is not a problem for me.

class choice is not an apt comparison at all, as class choice actually affects the game. The world responds to your choice of class (yes, even in DA2!), by giving you content that would not be availble if you played a different class. Your name does not affect the game and never will because characters cannot call you by it, and so it ultimately serves no purpose.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 09 décembre 2012 - 08:28 .


#84
Navasha

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Plaintiff wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Since I don't care about nor ever attempt to make a character that feels like "mine", that is not a problem for me.

class choice is not an apt comparison at all, as class choice actually affects the game. The world responds to your choice of class (yes, even in DA2!), by giving you content that would not be availble if you played a different class. Your name does not affect the game and never will because characters cannot call you by it, and so it ultimately serves no purpose.



True, but you are advocating a fixed first name so that the game COULD call you by it.   Sorry, but if every NPC keeps calling me Robert, Margaret, or some other such mundane name, it would be even MORE annoying. 

No one name is going to be appealing to every player, which is why you are allowed to choose "your" name and be referenced in some other fashion.  

Games are all about the "illusion" of choice.   Yes, the first name is completely meaningless, but it still helps the player identify with the character.    Fixing a name would futher the detachment people feel with the character.   It moves it from playing a game, into simply watching an interactive movie.

#85
TheDon81

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JasonPogo wrote...

 I have to say I don't like when games give the main character a name that is used throughout the game.  If we are to make our own character it takes allot out of it when everyone calls them a preset name.  Having everyone call my character Hawke just did all the more to make him feel less like my character.  Now I know that all the characters in DA1 had surnames but they were never used.  People just called you Warden wich was my title and did not pull the character out of my characterization of them.   So in short I hope people just refer to the main character as like the Inquisitor or something in game.  I want as much regency over my character as I can get.


This was the nail in the coffin for my immerson.
It really underlined that it wasn't my story, but Hawkes.

They should've referred to him as "Fereldan/beggar/refugee etc." at first, then "Lord/mylord/sire" as he became rich, and finally "Champion".

Another thing that said the same thing, was how the tactics referred to "you" as Hawke. Your firstname never got used, I can't recall it at all actually. It was all about Hawke.

Modifié par TheDon81, 09 décembre 2012 - 09:21 .


#86
TheDon81

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Helena Tylena wrote...

I do NOT want my protagonist to be called 'Inquisitor' by my closest friends and loved ones. That's just... bad. Using a surname makes so much more sense.


What about "my friend/mate/buddy/pal/love/darling/son/brother/sire"?
There is much more than just  "inquisitor", you know...

#87
DarkKnightHolmes

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Helena Tylena wrote...

I do NOT want my protagonist to be called 'Inquisitor' by my closest friends and loved ones. That's just... bad. Using a surname makes so much more sense.


That's hardly a problem. I mean you didn't see any romance option in DAO calling you "Warden" in a romance scene. They either called you "Love" or some other nickname.

#88
Silfren

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Navasha wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Navasha wrote...

Since I don't care about nor ever attempt to make a character that feels like "mine", that is not a problem for me.

class choice is not an apt comparison at all, as class choice actually affects the game. The world responds to your choice of class (yes, even in DA2!), by giving you content that would not be availble if you played a different class. Your name does not affect the game and never will because characters cannot call you by it, and so it ultimately serves no purpose.



True, but you are advocating a fixed first name so that the game COULD call you by it.   Sorry, but if every NPC keeps calling me Robert, Margaret, or some other such mundane name, it would be even MORE annoying. 

No one name is going to be appealing to every player, which is why you are allowed to choose "your" name and be referenced in some other fashion.  

Games are all about the "illusion" of choice.   Yes, the first name is completely meaningless, but it still helps the player identify with the character.    Fixing a name would futher the detachment people feel with the character.   It moves it from playing a game, into simply watching an interactive movie.


Speak for yourself, please, on the question of how detached or whether there is any detachment at all.  I've played games with fully named PCs and enjoyed them plenty.  I'm capable of pretending, for the duration of gameplay, that I AM that character.  I don't feel detached at all.  And I didn't feel at all detached from Hawke, either. 

The bottom line is that you HAVE to make a concession somewhere.  We don't have adequate technology yet for NPCs to be able to voice every possible name combination a player could come up with.  It's arguable that we never will have adequate technology for that.  So that leaves us with the options of either a completely fixed name that lends itself to totally free usage by NPCs, but which players have no say in whatsoever, or a partially fixed name that will only be partially used and will thus have at least some degree of awkward usage.  That's it, sorry, complain all you like, those of you who hate the idea, but those are the options, period.  Some people are going to be fine with it, others are going to be unhappy, and others just not going to have an opinion. 

I can see why people would prefer to come up with their own name.  Personally, I rather like it to0, because it does, in a sense, further enhance the illusion that it is "my" character. 

On the other hand, I've played one game in particular in which I was puppeteering a character that already came with a defined name and, arguably, a defined personality, and in no sense at all was my enjoyment lessened for that fact.  If you haven't played such a game yet, I'd suggest waiting until you actually have before deciding that you just can't live with the idea.

I think a lot of the enjoyment of the game absolutely does revolve around player expectation and what we players bring to the table.  If a person just absolutely cannot bring themselves to play a character that already has a defined name, that, I feel, is a failure of imagination on their part.

Modifié par Silfren, 09 décembre 2012 - 09:41 .


#89
Vaeliorin

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Silfren wrote...
The bottom line is that you HAVE to make a concession somewhere.  We don't have adequate technology yet for NPCs to be able to voice every possible name combination a player could come up with.  It's arguable that we never will have adequate technology for that.  So that leaves us with the options of either a completely fixed name that lends itself to totally free usage by NPCs, but which players have no say in whatsoever, or a partially fixed name that will only be partially used and will thus have at least some degree of awkward usage.  That's it, sorry, complain all you like, those of you who hate the idea, but those are the options, period.

Actually, there are other options. We could do like NWN did, where the NPC's didn't say your name, but it appeared in the text. Or we could just stop voicing anyone, and go all text.

Personally, I vote option 2.

#90
Silfren

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Vaeliorin wrote...

Silfren wrote...
The bottom line is that you HAVE to make a concession somewhere.  We don't have adequate technology yet for NPCs to be able to voice every possible name combination a player could come up with.  It's arguable that we never will have adequate technology for that.  So that leaves us with the options of either a completely fixed name that lends itself to totally free usage by NPCs, but which players have no say in whatsoever, or a partially fixed name that will only be partially used and will thus have at least some degree of awkward usage.  That's it, sorry, complain all you like, those of you who hate the idea, but those are the options, period.

Actually, there are other options. We could do like NWN did, where the NPC's didn't say your name, but it appeared in the text. Or we could just stop voicing anyone, and go all text.

Personally, I vote option 2.


No, those are not options. Bioware has made it abundantly clear that they will not be going back to an unvoiced protagonist, and I think it's a given that we'll NEVER see another game where there are no voiced characters at all.  I daresay quite a lot of people would not want them to do so, anyway.  As for the other, we already DO have the thing where the NPCs don't say your name, but it appears in text form; that is part and parcel of the option where you have a partially defined name.  We got that option in Origins in a number of instances, and perhaps a time or two in DA2, though I can't recall for the latter.  So it's not a third option--it's part of the existing two.

Modifié par Silfren, 09 décembre 2012 - 10:10 .


#91
ohnotherancor

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Vaeliorin wrote...

[Actually, there are other options. We could do like NWN did, where the NPC's didn't say your name, but it appeared in the text.


I'm glad someone mentioned this since I really like this approach. I wish BioWare would bring it back.

The surname is fine, but I wouldn't be pleased if the character's full name was fixed. Personally, I would feel more detached from the character.

#92
Dean_the_Young

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Canon names make fanfiction much easier to write and read, because you don't have to keep up with 'who's the Marry Sue of the fic' when there's a Hawk/Shepard/Couseland around to use.

What? Just saying.

#93
ohnotherancor

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Silfren wrote...

As for the other, we already DO have the thing where the NPCs don't say your name, but it appears in text form; that is part and parcel of the option where you have a partially defined name.  We got that option in Origins in a number of instances, and perhaps a time or two in DA2, though I can't recall for the latter.  So it's not a third option--it's part of the existing two.


No, you misunderstand. In BG and NWN, you could type in your character's full name. And no one in the game would actually say your name, but  it would show up in...what I guess could be called the subtitles.

For example:
Image IPB
"Nicodemia" is a name the player made up. I think almost all of Melissan's dialogue was also voiced, but the text box still shows up at the bottom. Melissan never actually says "Nicodemia", but it shows up in the text box. She would start off with "You live!"

I'm betting the reason BioWare stopped using this approach is because subtitles are no longer mandatory. And I doubt they have any interest in making them mandatory since they annoy a great deal of people. So while I wish they would bring this style back, I realize it's not the most feasible option.

Thus, I prefer having a title to a surname (along with pet names, nicknames, whatever), but I can also accept a surname.

Just trying to clear things up. Hopefully I didn't come across as combative.

#94
d4eaming

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I find it more annoying for characters to never reference my PC, at all, ever. I had no problem being Hawke. I'm the eldest of the family and have been given the bulk of the responsibility for it, that family name is associated with me, the PC. The example above, where my PC is NEVER addressed in spoken word but the name is splashed across the screen drives me batsh--.

#95
Pelle6666

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Yeah... like commander Shepard... surely no one related to that character...

#96
Inprea

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AppealToReason wrote...

Unrelatedly related, I loved how in Saints Row the Third you were always "boss" or names like that. Then when the one girl was all like "I can even find out your real name" and then your guy is all "Don't you even!"


How could you forget Kinzie's name? I bet you don't even remember her safe word.

#97
The Teyrn of Whatever

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inarvan wrote...

Being able to choose between even a few "call names" would be great.


BioWare has said that we will have selectable backgrounds. Why not attach a family name to those backgrounds (e.g. Amell, something Orlesian, etc.)?

#98
Saibh

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The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

inarvan wrote...

Being able to choose between even a few "call names" would be great.


BioWare has said that we will have selectable backgrounds. Why not attach a family name to those backgrounds (e.g. Amell, something Orlesian, etc.)?


You'll probably be able to, but I'm equally sure BioWare isn't keen on having dialogue revoiced again and again to account for different surnames. Seems like a waste of resources.

Also, BioWare traditionally selects a background for your protagonist (even if they give you a choice of some)--it is fitting they choose a surname, too. I like the compromise between selecting a given name and having a surname.

#99
In Exile

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DA:O fixed your surname universally, as I recall, because of the way the game had to be coded to account for Cousland. Which is why (in DA:O) none of the surnames are mentioned.

#100
DarkSpiral

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In Exile wrote...

DA:O fixed your surname universally, as I recall, because of the way the game had to be coded to account for Cousland. Which is why (in DA:O) none of the surnames are mentioned.


Just Cousland?  Or Amell, Aeducan, etc?