73 réponses à ce sujet

[uberman409]

But it isn't really our money, it's BioWare's. He's being paid by BioWare, presumably on a contractual basis. We're paying BioWare. '_'

edit: So he's getting paid one way or another. We're only shafting BioWare, however slightly.

Modifié par uberman409, 06 janvier 2010 - 07:37 .

[elys]

uberman409 wrote...

But it isn't really our money, it's BioWare's. He's being paid by BioWare, presumably on a contractual basis. We're paying BioWare. '_'

edit: So he's getting paid one way or another. We're only shafting BioWare, however slightly.

It depends how Bioware is paying him. If it earns a % of each sale, then not buying it will hurt his moneybag. directly
If it is contractual and not based on sales, then a  importan sale failure will cause him to not be hired again.

In both case, it affects his income, sooner or later.

Boycott is not a new concept. It works as long as it is followed by enough people

Modifié par elys, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:14 .

[Deran2]

uberman409 wrote...

But it isn't really our money, it's BioWare's. He's being paid by BioWare, presumably on a contractual basis. We're paying BioWare. '_'

edit: So he's getting paid one way or another. We're only shafting BioWare, however slightly.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that more than enough people will buy it to make for those few of us who won't. To be honest unless its one of a select few writers I probably wouldn't pick it up anyway. I'm not a big fan of video game comics. Only one that interests me right now is the upcoming Marv Wolfman God of War comic.

[uberman409]

I just don't read comic books. XD Don't see the point. If I can't use it as a book end, most likely I won't read it. hehe

edit: Yea, Boycotts work if they're followed. Remember the TF2 Boycott caused by everyone moaning about every single change? The MW2 boycotts? They don't work. These aren't big deals, no one cares that much about video games to the point where a boycott actually works. This goes doubly for comic books... BASED on video games. XD

Modifié par uberman409, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:16 .

[elys]

By the way, I'm talking generally here. I'm not american and I've never heard of that guy before this topic. So I have nothing personal against him.

I'm just saying I clearly understand why some people in this thread who think that this guy is a threat to society, don't wanna support him directly or indirectly in any way.

Modifié par elys, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:20 .

[uberman409]

But he's not a threat to anyone. He's as harmless as Qaddafi who is, unless you're in Libya, harmless.

[Default137]

And Zevran and Leliana get to appear as backwater crazies, who have no idea just how evil they actually are, constantly try to repent for their evil actions, and may not even have anything similar in terms of personality to how they act in game. Yeah, think I'll pass, Zevran is one of my favorite characters in this game due to his attitude, part of which comes from him being a bisexual, Leliana I wouldn't care much about, but Zevrans sexuality is a big part of his character, and to remove that would be to kill his character off.

Modifié par Default137, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:39 .

[uberman409]

Default137 wrote...

And Zevran and Leliana get to appear as backwater crazies, who have no idea just how evil they actually are, constantly try to repent for their evil actions, and may not even have anything similar in terms of personality to how they act in game. Yeah, think I'll pass, Zevran is one of my favorite characters in this game due to his attitude, part of which comes from him being a bisexual, Leliana I wouldn't care much about, but Zevrans sexuality is a big part of his character, and to remove that would be to kill his character off.

You do realize that BioWare is the employer, they get to slap him on the wrist. I think that I've explained this, and you ignore it. Are you a moron or something? At least your comrade in loathing Orson Scott Card realized that and had a somewhat valid reasoning for not buying; he doesn't want his/her money potentially helping Card. BioWare is in charge of this, they're employing Orson's writing skill, not his bigotry.

edit: I may seem rude, but I'm simply FLABBERGASTED by the lack of faith in BioWare's quality control skills. You seem to forget, BioWare hired Card. They're not simply going to give him free reign over this project, they're going to watch over it. Either you're PURPOSELY ignoring that fact to whine about Card, or you forgot that BioWare is in charge.

Modifié par uberman409, 06 janvier 2010 - 08:56 .

[Default137]

uberman409 wrote...

Default137 wrote...

And Zevran and Leliana get to appear as backwater crazies, who have no idea just how evil they actually are, constantly try to repent for their evil actions, and may not even have anything similar in terms of personality to how they act in game. Yeah, think I'll pass, Zevran is one of my favorite characters in this game due to his attitude, part of which comes from him being a bisexual, Leliana I wouldn't care much about, but Zevrans sexuality is a big part of his character, and to remove that would be to kill his character off.

You do realize that BioWare is the employer, they get to slap him on the wrist. I think that I've explained this, and you ignore it. Are you a moron or something? At least your comrade in loathing Orson Scott Card realized that and had a somewhat valid reasoning for not buying; he doesn't want his/her money potentially helping Card. BioWare is in charge of this, they're employing Orson's writing skill, not his bigotry.

Aren't you nice.

Thing is, most comic books/novels, especially those based on games are only loosely based on the story in question, and very rarely are they forced on how to portray most of the characters from said game, ever read the old BG series, or the God of War series of comics? Yeah, those were obviously written with what the devs had in mind, thats why half the characters acted completely different from their in game counterparts, with Khalid being a womanizer who cheated on Jaheria with every chick he met, and Kratos being an utter psycho even moreso then he was in the games.

If Bioware was writing the entire plot, and how everyone is acting, why are they hiring him? He is a writer, not a comic book drawer, HE is the person writing this comic, not them, so its up to him how he wants everyone to appear, and how their characters are going to act, considering he believes gays are abhuman, and deserve no rights, how exactly do you think he will choose to write Zevran and Leliana, two bisexuals.

Oh wait, he will probably not understand some people are born that way, and will make them act either like they are utterly broken in the head/emotionally, as thats the only way he can justify their actions, if he does add their sexuality, it will be mentioned as being wrong, or that they are only like this because they were abused as children, or something silly like that, because he can.

Anyways, why does this matter so much to you? I just said I won't be buying it because Zevran will be portrayed incorrectly from how he appears in game, and he is my favorite character, its not like I made a big deal over the whole gay issue, or his views, I just pointed out how I wouldn't like it for an obvious reason, and thought I had moved on.

Modifié par Default137, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:04 .

[uberman409]

Default137 wrote...

uberman409 wrote...

Default137 wrote...

And Zevran and Leliana get to appear as backwater crazies, who have no idea just how evil they actually are, constantly try to repent for their evil actions, and may not even have anything similar in terms of personality to how they act in game. Yeah, think I'll pass, Zevran is one of my favorite characters in this game due to his attitude, part of which comes from him being a bisexual, Leliana I wouldn't care much about, but Zevrans sexuality is a big part of his character, and to remove that would be to kill his character off.

You do realize that BioWare is the employer, they get to slap him on the wrist. I think that I've explained this, and you ignore it. Are you a moron or something? At least your comrade in loathing Orson Scott Card realized that and had a somewhat valid reasoning for not buying; he doesn't want his/her money potentially helping Card. BioWare is in charge of this, they're employing Orson's writing skill, not his bigotry.

Aren't you nice.

Thing is, most comic books/novels, especially those based on games are only loosely based on the story in question, and very rarely are they forced on how to portray most of the characters from said game, ever read the old BG series, or the God of War series of comics? Yeah, those were obviously written with what the devs had in mind, thats why half the characters acted completely different from their in game counterparts, with Khalid being a womanizer who cheated on Jaheria with every chick he met, and Kratos being an utter psycho even moreso then he was in the games.

If Bioware was writing the entire plot, and how everyone is acting, why are they hiring him? He is a writer, not a comic book drawer, HE is the person writing this comic, not them, so its up to him how he wants everyone to appear, and how their characters are going to act, considering he believes gays are abhuman, and deserve no rights, how exactly do you think he will choose to write Zevran and Leliana, two bisexuals.

Oh wait, he will probably not understand some people are born that way, and will make them act either like they are utterly broken in the head/emotionally, as thats the only way he can justify their actions, if he does add their sexuality, it will be mentioned as being wrong, or that they are only like this because they were abused as children, or something silly like that, because he can.

Anyways, why does this matter so much to you? I just said I won't be buying it because Zevran will be portrayed incorrectly from how he appears in game, and he is my favorite character, its not like I made a big deal over the whole gay issue, or his views, I just pointed out how I wouldn't like it for an obvious reason, and thought I had moved on.

Your argument is irrelevant for one simple reason: At the end of the day, BioWare gets to say what gets in and what doesn't. He is working for them, to their satisfaction. I cannot stress this enough, and that BioWare would LET Card completely rape their characters makes no sense whatsoever. You underestimate BioWare.

The reason I care, is because if I can stop one person from making a decision for stupid reasons then I will. The stupid reason in question is your lack of faith in BioWare, your ignorance of normal quality control. The buck stops with BioWare. They can tell him to bugger off, just like George Lucas told Karen Traviss when she moaned about him retconning all of her fandalorian madness.

[elys]

I understand your concern.

Still I guess however bad you think the guy is, that he deserves, like anyone else, to be judged on the facts about his Dragon Age work.
 
Once and if he will have done what you suggest, then it will be time to throw stones at him and at Bioware for hiring him

Modifié par elys, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:21 .

[uberman409]

Elys is correct. TBH, BioWare has very high quality standards. I highly doubt that they would let Card rape their characters out of his bigotry against bisexual or homosexual tendencies.

[elys]

Hmm slightly off-topic but somehow related

I see on Amazon:

-The Stolen Throne
-The Calling

If I understand correctly, they are both prequel to the game ?
Are they the only 2 stories released about Dragon Age ?

Modifié par elys, 06 janvier 2010 - 09:31 .

[Archdemon Cthulhu]

I don't understand why so many people view OSC as such a masterful writer in the first place.



Yes, he wrote Ender's Game, one excellent young adult book, and then he wrote Ender's Shadow a less-excellent but still pretty good young adult book.



Other than that, his work is all mediocre at best, at least what I've read and sampled. There are loads better sci-fi and fantasy authors out there and furthermore they do not have as ignorant or hateful views. I could list them: Neil Gaiman, Tad Williams, John Scalzi, M.T. Anderson (albeit he is not exclusively sci-fi), William Gibson. If I include comics authors the list goes on: Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Garth Ennis, Brian K. Vaughn, Devin Grayson, Mark Waid, Bill Willingham.



I don't know why he's so lauded. One great work does not a great author make. So, for me, it isn't very difficult to turn down a DA:O comic from who I consider to be a greatly overrated and mostly mediocre author. It only makes it easier when I know what a d*ck he is in real life as well.

[elys]

Tassiaw wrote...
Yep, written by David Gaider. They're pretty decent books, entertaining. I liked The Calling better than The Stolen Throne.

Thanks

[Deran2]

Archdemon Cthulhu wrote...

I don't understand why so many people view OSC as such a masterful writer in the first place.

Yes, he wrote Ender's Game, one excellent young adult book, and then he wrote Ender's Shadow a less-excellent but still pretty good young adult book.

Other than that, his work is all mediocre at best, at least what I've read and sampled. There are loads better sci-fi and fantasy authors out there and furthermore they do not have as ignorant or hateful views. I could list them: Neil Gaiman, Tad Williams, John Scalzi, M.T. Anderson (albeit he is not exclusively sci-fi), William Gibson. If I include comics authors the list goes on: Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Garth Ennis, Brian K. Vaughn, Devin Grayson, Mark Waid, Bill Willingham.

I don't know why he's so lauded. One great work does not a great author make. So, for me, it isn't very difficult to turn down a DA:O comic from who I consider to be a greatly overrated and mostly mediocre author. It only makes it easier when I know what a d*ck he is in real life as well.

I've been enjoying Speaker for the Dead. I really like the way Card does space travel, its a lot more logical than most SciFi authors that I've read. Though I really like Mike Carey and Chistopher Yost's takes on the stories.

Speaking of Gaimen I just started reading Sandman, freaking brilliant. I read Anasi Boys last year and got American Gods for Christmas. I need to pick up some Ennis stuff one of these days, I keep hearing good things. Anything in particular you recommend?

[Ravenshrike]

OldMan91 wrote...

If he was referring to peacefully changing a government through the ballot, he would have used another word other than "destroy".

Except, of course, attempting to destroy it through violence would be utterly futile unless you had a large enough group of people also willing to act violently against that government. You can destroy an idea without violence quite easily, outside of certain types of memes(The idea that homosexuals being able to marry not being one of them).

That being said, this ENTIRE ****ING DEBATE would be solved extremely quickly if the government would get out of marriage, and simply revert to a  contract system between any two people older than the age of 18 who aren't directly related or currently in a contract with another person and leave marriage to the various religious institutions. Not to mention, if you stripped the fluffy marriage talk from it, these things would be thought through more carefully and the divorce rate would probably go down.



Addendum - It also occurs to me that the comics will be following the canon male protagonist gets Morrigan pregnant with god-baby and goes to search for her afterwards storyline. Since you'll note the info about the expansion says nothing about your character sticking around to help the grey wardens. This means that any romance plots will be between the protagonist and Morrigan, which means this entire discussion about the bisexual NPCs is utterly meaningless.

Modifié par Ravenshrike, 06 janvier 2010 - 06:31 .

[Medhia Nox]

Your addendum, if true (I haven't researched the comic), is disappointing to hear Ravenshrike.



My character wasn't into chicks.. and even if he were.. he wouldn't have touched Morrigan with a ten foot pole.



What I would have hoped to occur was 1) The comic is accepted as "alternate reality". 2) The design of the Mass Effect books is followed. Where Shepard is kept vague and his choices are left unresolved (like if Anderson becomes a member of the Council or not). 3) The story is about Morrigan.. and she never makes it clear who the father is. Leaving it open to a secret affair between her and Alistair or Loghain (if you didn't chose one of them to sleep with her).



If the game derails my main character for a canon alternative... this would seem a step backward for Bioware RPGs.

[Godak]

uberman409 wrote...

Am I the only one who doesn't give a bantha poodoo about the fact that he doesn't support gay marriage? He's an excellent writer. It's almost like you're spitting on his work because you don't like his political choices. I enjoyed his work. I disagree with him most heartily on his gay rights stance, but that doesn't negate his skill. I won't forget my love of the Ender's Game series.

Hitler was quite skillful at public speaking, and I won't take that away from him, but...

Surely you know where that's headed. And yes, it is taking it to the extreme, but I think you can understand how we need to straighten our priorities. Is it ok to support talent, even though they have disgusting beliefs?

uberman409 wrote...

Furthermore, Godak, I am the son of a Southerner and am deeply offended by your insinuation that Southerners are racist bigots. It's insulting. My father, and his father and mother before him, are some of the most reasonable and intelligent people I have ever met. That you would make a generalization contradicts my general assumption that we are reasonable people on this forum. I'll give you one chance to either apologize, or back up your statement.

I apologize if you were making a historical reference. If you were, I will refute it for a few reasons.

I was speaking of the time period surrounding the Emancipation Proclamation. And you're right, at that time it was pretty much the entire United States that was composed of racist biggots, not just the South.

Southerners today aren't that much of a problem. I lived in Virginia for a fair portion of my life, and I have family in Georgia. It's just that you pretty much grow up with this image of the Southern racist, and all you need is that one old guy who lives on a hill to support it...

F^_^cking old guy.


Enchantment!

Modifié par Godak, 06 janvier 2010 - 07:45 .

[Ravenshrike]

Godak wrote...

Hitler was quite skillful at public speaking, and I won't take that away from him, but...

Game called on account of Hitler. Thread over.

[uberman409]

I wanted to, but the last time I called a Godwin I got flamed for being immature.

[ReubenLiew]

Not looking forward to the comic on the fact that the warrior is dual wielding 2 great swords.

That is all kinds of stupid.

[uberman409]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Not looking forward to the comic on the fact that the warrior is dual wielding 2 great swords.
That is all kinds of stupid.

Unless, of course, the person dual-wielding them is a dwarf. That would be BA.