246 réponses à ce sujet

[thearbiter1337]

Yes

But i did enjoy it though

[ShepGrimr]

Yes me3 is by far the worst. It is sad to be honest they had 2 terrific games but fumbled the ball for the last trilogy. Not to go off track but other trilogies have the same problem ie. Diablo 3 and The Dark Knight rises. To be honest, if they had kept on doing what was good in me1 and 2 (and not alter the so called video gamey ending casey hudson, mac walters) , me3 would have been perfect ending to shepard's story instead we got and inferior product.

[legion999]

Yes.

[Sebby]

It's the best in the series when it comes to the core TPS/Spellcasting hybrid game mechanics but the dubious dishonor of being the "worst" would have to go to ME2 with it's complete disregard of continuity and logic. For all of ME3's faults it at the very least HAD a story that was about the overarching plot.

[Dragoonlordz]

Nope, ME2 was (imho).

[AlanC9]

Calinstel wrote...

Total count?  I never look at the total count.  I look at the interactions of the Character with Shepard (myself).  I say myself because I am the one playing the game, not another Character.  Too many darned Zaeed/Kasumi statements in ME3 for my tastes.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. I mean the total count of interactions with Shepard. 

You think that ME3 has less interactions with Shepard, and I think you're simply wrong about that. It's got the same amount plus the one liners and the squadmate-squadmate interactions. Didn't I say that?

Like I said, we need an actual count. Easy enough to do from YouTube if someone's already done compiled convos from ME3 -- I think IGN already has all ME2 squadmate interactions neatly packaged.

Edit: but even if ME3 has fewer intereactive convos than ME2, I still prefer its allocation of the word count. The squadmates have things to say at more different times, and when they don't have anything to say I don't get into a convo where Shepard's told to go away because Garrus has to do more calibrations.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 décembre 2012 - 07:26 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Calinstel wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Calinstel wrote...
Character interaction, with Shepard.
How many times in ME3 (looking at Ashley on the Normandy) did you actually have a conversation with them instead of listening to them talking to another character then getting blown off by "Not right now."?
Shepard, being you in the game, barely had any conversations with the crew.  At least to me.

Someone really needs to do a full count of these. When I did counts for a couple of characters I found that ME 3 had more convos, and the one-liners and conversations between squadmates come on top of that. But I may not have looked at the right characters.

Total count?  I never look at the total count.  I look at the interactions of the Character with Shepard (myself).  I say myself because I am the one playing the game, not another Character.  Too many darned Zaeed/Kasumi statements in ME3 for my tastes.

Character interaction with other characters was actually pretty darn good but it came at the expense of Character interaction with Shepard.

In ME1 and ME2, Shepard (myself) seemed to actually be IN the conversations as well.  In ME3, Shepard (NOT myself) just went his own merry way when he actually could converse.
I really miss my Shepard.

You're Shepard didn't box with Vega, didn't talk with him at the work area besides boxing, talk to him at the Citadel praesidium, talk to him at the Batarian parlor, didn't talk to him at the Cabin about being an N7, didn't talk to him at the Batarrian tatoo parlor? Because those are all times when your Shepard can have a one-on-one discussion with the character, without resorting to ambiant dialogue.

It's not like this is unique to James either. Multiple conversation opportunities in the hospital and then at least one more for the Virmire survivor, EDI's regular questions, talks on Ship and on the Citadel with just about everyone if you just bothered to try...

Maybe you wouldn't miss your Shepard so much if your Shepard wasn't so lazy.

Thank you for telling me how I play.
Wait, you just insulted me.  I find that rather rude of you.
Every conversation that CAN be had, WAS had.
I found it lacking.
Now, please, find another person to insult.  You are wasting your rudeness talents on me. 

If I was looking to insult you, your response alone would be enough. As I was castigating your Shepard for not bothering to take the many opportunities there were to have conversations with his (or her) crew, and you certainly wouldn't be so presumptuous to confuse yourself with a fictious character...

If there's anything you might feel insulted about, it would be you forgetting the very things you were complaining the game lacked. But as far as perceiving insults go, that's a stretch.

[Teddie Sage]

A big yes for me. Weaker story telling, weaker RPG elements. Feels more like an interactive movie and Shepard stopped being my Shepard with all the auto-dialogues.

[4stringwizard]

ShepGrimr wrote...

Yes me3 is by far the worst. It is sad to be honest they had 2 terrific games but fumbled the ball for the last trilogy. Not to go off track but other trilogies have the same problem ie. Diablo 3 and The Dark Knight rises. To be honest, if they had kept on doing what was good in me1 and 2 (and not alter the so called video gamey ending casey hudson, mac walters) , me3 would have been perfect ending to shepard's story instead we got and inferior product.

Hey, I liked "The Dark Knight Rises"!  Thought it was better than Batman Begins, in all honesty. 

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Total count?  I never look at the total count.  I look at the interactions of the Character with Shepard (myself).  I say myself because I am the one playing the game, not another Character.  Too many darned Zaeed/Kasumi statements in ME3 for my tastes.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. I mean the total count of interactions with Shepard. 

You think that ME3 has less interactions with Shepard, and I think you're simply wrong about that. It's got the same amount plus the one liners and the squadmate-squadmate interactions. Didn't I say that?

Like I said, we need an actual count. Easy enough to do from YouTube if someone's already done compiled convos from ME3 -- I think IGN already has all ME2 squadmate interactions neatly packaged.

Let's see. Counting non-mandatory (ie, not as a mission or core plot unskippable) but direct (as in: player-initiated, dialogue wheel present, Shepard and other, no ambiant-style conversations) as these character conversations, and not including any special mission focuses (such as Liara on Thessia), end-game conversation (final goodbyes), or romance dialogue...

Ash and Kaiden have three hospital discussions IIRC (well, one coma, one wounded, one near-healthy spectre accepting), and at least one post-recruitment discussion (Drunk Ash, let's be friends Kaiden) for a total of at least four.

Vega had the fist fight, one on the Praesidium, talking about N7, and getting a tatoo. Not counting Leviathan's inter-mission piece, that's four.

Liara had... I don't remember, honestly, because I think my game is bugged and I rarely want to talk to her. She certainly didn't lack for story-involved conversations with Shepard, more than any ME2 character bar possibly Miranda, but I'm just remembering the 'it's your mom' and 'let's hang out as friends' talk on the Praesidium commons, as well as the post-Thessia cheerup.  Maybe a Shadow Broker backstory-discussion in her cabin? At least three, with many more outside the category.

Garrus had the post-Palaven talking about Victus, talking about wounded on the Citadel, talking about how Dictators are necessary because they don't give a damn about the costs, and at least one discussion about advising a retreat from Palaven. Plus the shooting contest. I can't remember if the dicator one was the same as the concern about his family. There's also a post-Tuchanka mission dialogue that starts with talking to Joker, in which you can confess the genophage, but since that's a Joker one as well I won't count it. So Garrus has at least five.

Tali... I honestly don't have that many playthroughs with Tali, it's hard to remember. One of her big moments with the drinking doesn't count due to being ambient auto-monologue with Shepard auto-dialoging 'go on'. She does have a discussion about her status in the Admiralty Board/migrant fleet immediately after meeting the Quarian leadership, I'm pretty sure she has one post-Rannoch assuming she survives, and I know she has one on the Citadel about arranging war support for the Turians. So... three? I'm fairly sure I'm missing one, but I don't remember it.

EDI has a number on ship and off. Her leading question about whether morality should be a reason to disobey orders, a ship-piece on resistors to the Reapers, an initial conversation on the Citadel after getting her body, and another one (at the club?) about hooking up with Joker. At least four, but possibly a few others I'm forgetting: I feel there was another one in which she asks another question on the ship.

Javik certainly has a few. Even not counting his recruitment post-mission dialogue, there's still the Citadel, the Prothean war with synthetics, the Crystal. I can't remember if he has a special conversation about the Rachni, but he certainly has some ambient dialogue for pretty much every major mission. I want to say there was a follow-up conversation about the memory shard, but that might be blending with the final goodbyes.


Not squadmates per see, but also worth noting...

Cortez and not-Kelly-Chambers also had dialogue wheel arcs for their stories, though I can't remember how many other than it was at least three on top of other post-mission autodialouge.

Miranda, as a reoccuring character, had at least three that I can remember: initial greeting, talking about brain chip, and then an appeal for help.

Every temporary ship-appearing character (Wrex, Quarian Admirals, Victus) had a conversation and chance to dialogue-wheel converse with them, though I think that was one per character and more for the 'investigate' option than anything else.


 This doesn't include post-mission ambient dialogue (which had no ME2 equivalent), inter-party banter between missions (which had no ME2 equivalent bar an elevator joke between Tali and Garrus on the Citadel), character-specific inserts during conversations during missions (which fell mostly in the line of expanding the ME2 practice of inserting 'insert character here wisecrack'), or inter-party banter during missions (such as James calling Javik Bug-Tzu during the Citadel coup).



So, in general, the squadmates had about four conversations with dialogue wheels each.

Which is about what the ME2 characters had, bar the party interaction and ambient dialogue pieces. For some comparisons...

ME2 Garrus had an initial post-recruitment dialogue re-talking his experience with the various merc groups and re-iterating how he had been betrayed, a second conversation about finding Sidonis, and a post-loyalty mission about reach and flexibility. Rather than ambient dialogue when he had nothing else to say, Garrus had the infamous 'calibrations.' So Garrus had... three, IIRC.

Tali focused primarily on her post-recruitment discussion (not trusting Cerberus), her loyalty mission prompt (exile), and the post-loyalty discussion (reflecting the mission choice). Three that I recall again.



This followed the dialogue style for most characters in ME2: Shepard would receive a post-recruitment introduction, a loyalty mission prompt which explored a bit more of backstory and set up the context of the loyalty mission, and a post-loyalty discussion reflecting on the consequences. Some characters had another pieces to talk about (Mordin's scientific salarian discussion, Thane and Drell spiritualism), but ME2 retained a similar extent of about three-four conversations for the companion characters. It didn't even have a monopoly on the 'investigate' option to offer an effective extra conversation: in ME3, during the first conversation with most companions you got an investigate option (including EDI, Liara, Vega, and Garrus). While you did lose access to these investigates later, unlike in ME2, they still existed.

[liggy002]

ME3 was yes.... I cant recall if I already replied to this thread but ME1 was the best followed by ME2 which was really good.

[Linkenski]

AlanC9 wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Total count?  I never look at the total count.  I look at the interactions of the Character with Shepard (myself).  I say myself because I am the one playing the game, not another Character.  Too many darned Zaeed/Kasumi statements in ME3 for my tastes.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. I mean the total count of interactions with Shepard. 

You think that ME3 has less interactions with Shepard, and I think you're simply wrong about that. It's got the same amount plus the one liners and the squadmate-squadmate interactions. Didn't I say that?

Like I said, we need an actual count. Easy enough to do from YouTube if someone's already done compiled convos from ME3 -- I think IGN already has all ME2 squadmate interactions neatly packaged.

Edit: but even if ME3 has fewer intereactive convos than ME2, I still prefer its allocation of the word count. The squadmates have things to say at more different times, and when they don't have anything to say I don't get into a convo where Shepard's told to go away because Garrus has to do more calibrations.

I agree to that having the interactive convos spread out more throughout the game is good, but then there are the non-interactive convos where shepard replies in Autodialogue. That could've potentially been an interactive convo with two or three dialog options. Why didn't they make it like that?
"Well we wanted to make shepard a more human character"
Well you did Mac, and great job, you just took my characters identity away from him in the process!
And why the heck can't i at least redo the investigate convos, after the first missions? Squadmates are like Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2 most of the time.

[Fixers0]

 Generally speaking: yes, Mass Effect 3 was indeed in the worst game in the trilogy and for the following reasons:
(1.0) Butchered dialogue wheel.
(2.0) Uninteresting, meaningless side quests.
(3.0) Little to no attention to detail by the desingers.
(4.0) Sloppy, clutterd journal.
(5.0) A poor, underdevelopd war managing system.
(6.0) No lasting appeal, plot development feels to linear.
(7.0) Atrocious handling of lore, logic and reason from time to time.
(8.0) Antagonists were extremly uneffective and contrived. 
(9.0) Techincally unimpressive, If not downright insulting.
(1.0) the plot is driven by an unknown, yet contrived device.

Modifié par Fixers0, 09 décembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[Bakgrind]

Fixers0 wrote...

 Generally speaking: yes, Mass Effect 3 was indeed in the worst game in the trilogy and for the following reasons:
(1.0) Butchered dialogue wheel.
(2.0) Uninteresting, meaningless side quests.
(3.0) Little to no attention to detail by the desingers.
(4.0) Sloppy, clutterd journal.
(5.0) A poor, underdevelopd war managing system.
(6.0) No lasting appeal, plot development feels to linear.
(7.0) Atrocious handling of lore, logic and reason from time to time.
(8.0) Antagonists were extremly uneffective and contrived. 
(9.0) Techincally unimpressive.
(1.0) the plot is driven by an unknown, yet contrived device.

Wow nice list. And I totally agree

[LTKerr]

Absolutely YES, the worst one by far. I accept those repetitive maps of ME or even the change of combat mechanics of ME2, but I cannot accept the awful writting of ME3.

Fixers0 wrote...
 Generally speaking: yes, Mass Effect 3 was indeed in the worst game in the trilogy and for the following reasons:
(1.0) Butchered dialogue wheel.
(2.0) Uninteresting, meaningless side quests.
(3.0) Little to no attention to detail by the desingers.
(4.0) Sloppy, clutterd journal.
(5.0) A poor, underdevelopd war managing system.
(6.0) No lasting appeal, plot development feels to linear.
(7.0) Atrocious handling of lore, logic and reason from time to time.
(8.0) Antagonists were extremly uneffective and contrived. 
(9.0) Techincally unimpressive.
(1.0) the plot is driven by an unknown, yet contrived device.

Mostly this, yeah.

Modifié par LTKerr, 09 décembre 2012 - 08:52 .

[Kesak12]

Yes the best one for me is ME2

[golak]

TheGreatDayne wrote...

Nah, they all have their ups and down. I like all three equally, so far.

ME2 is kind of a favorite of mine, though, since it randomly introduced me to the series.

Story of my life....

[chemiclord]

Honestly, I still think ME1 is the worst of the lot.

Very bland, very predictable storyline, clunky mechanics, and a final mission that was about twice as long as it needed to be. The amount of repetitive filler in ME1 was such a huge turnoff that I very nearly didn't buy ME2. The exploration elements were a nice concept... but there's only so many times I can see the same bunker on seven different planets before it becomes a negative.

The game mechanics have improved steadily over the course of the series... but it lost something in terms of the illusion of control. ME2 started to slip the illusion as it became clear "your" Shepard was a construct of your headcanon, and ME3 completely ripped the illusion away.

The storytelling has NEVER been particularly inspired or incredible... it merely only began to show its flaws as Bioware tried to fill in the gaps... and poorly. It became obvious there had been no real plan, and that they were rather flying blind, which is VERY tricky to do well.

[SilentK]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

* snip *

I could go on about how I feel ME3 had better dialogue design and implementation than ME2. I could talk about how having companion conversations outside of that one spot on the Normandy was so novel it was shameful, I could talk about how letting ambient dialogue of 'I'm busy' replace the 'Calibrations' dialogue-investigation struck me as a good way to not waste time, I could raise how ME2 had no good equivalent of the argument-decider opportunities which struck me as a good new way to give the player role-playing opportunities, I could even talk about how listening to companions talk to eachother or with Shepard without prompting, and not just talking at Shepard in the traditional Bioware exposition dump, was a welcome relief to ME2's style of companion conversations. I could also point out how I felt ME3 raised much better conversations and points in its conversations than ME2 did, avoiding exposition dumps and fewer NPC monologs and spreading out character development and progress over a series of conversations rather than packed in one 15/20 minute firefight mission.

These are all views and opinions I have that make ME3's dialogue (and related) system 'better' than ME2's to me. But some people look at it, see autodialogue, and view ME2's as better.


Are they wrong? Not really: different priorities for different people. But without knowing the grading standard, it's a poor question to ask.

Hmm... I really look forward to quite a few of these things. Just logged of from my FemShep in ME2 but these are some of the things that I really miss.

Like listening to Liara and Garrus exchaning greetings when meeting up on the Normandy in ME3. Or Vega and Garrus joking with eachother, Kaidan talking with Liara. How they check up on Liara after Thessia. They do feel like a crew that knows eachother. That is less the case now in my current PT in ME2. Just helped Samara with her little problem on Omega and not a word from Garrus who went with us. Earlier Tali didn't have one word to say when Garrus got help with Sidonis. I really enjoy playing ME2, it is a good story. But for me I feel closer to the crew in ME3. Just being able to talk with them on the Citadel is great. All of this is so subjective, it comes down to what one personally like. I wish I could have had this kind of interaction between my companions in ME2, other than the fights between Miranda and Jack or Tali and Legion. Would have been great to go into Samara's room and find her and Jacob disscusing biotics or something to that effect.

I enjoy playing ME3 more than ME2, just because I personally feel closer knit to my crew. But that's just me.

[Dean_the_Young]

Linkenski wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Total count?  I never look at the total count.  I look at the interactions of the Character with Shepard (myself).  I say myself because I am the one playing the game, not another Character.  Too many darned Zaeed/Kasumi statements in ME3 for my tastes.

Yes, I know what you're talking about. I mean the total count of interactions with Shepard. 

You think that ME3 has less interactions with Shepard, and I think you're simply wrong about that. It's got the same amount plus the one liners and the squadmate-squadmate interactions. Didn't I say that?

Like I said, we need an actual count. Easy enough to do from YouTube if someone's already done compiled convos from ME3 -- I think IGN already has all ME2 squadmate interactions neatly packaged.

Edit: but even if ME3 has fewer intereactive convos than ME2, I still prefer its allocation of the word count. The squadmates have things to say at more different times, and when they don't have anything to say I don't get into a convo where Shepard's told to go away because Garrus has to do more calibrations.

I agree to that having the interactive convos spread out more throughout the game is good, but then there are the non-interactive convos where shepard replies in Autodialogue. That could've potentially been an interactive convo with two or three dialog options. Why didn't they make it like that?

Because in a number of cases there was no need (Tali's drunken monolog, or character pieces in which Shepard has no input because they focus on another character talking), or because the existing means cover what a dialogue wheel would have (the confrontation resolutions, in which P/R are already identified by who you choose to support), or because as ambiant dialogue Shepard isn't expected to pop in and join the conversation (which is something that applies to ambiant dialogue in all three games).

"Well we wanted to make shepard a more human character"
Well you did Mac, and great job, you just took my characters identity away from him in the process!

No more than it was already predefined in the other pre-existing scopes. Even in ME2, all Shepards were human-nationalist figures who never doubted the existence of the Reapers and were willing to work with terrorists like Cerberus for a chance to fight them.

And why the heck can't i at least redo the investigate convos, after the first missions? Squadmates are like Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2 most of the time.

Why should you be able to ask the same question time and time again across the game for the exact same responses?

Assuming they have player data for this sort of thing, I'd be willing to bet a fair deal that investigate options are only chosen by a majority of people on the first time of the first playthrough, and never re-played except by accident. I'd bet another sum that fewer and fewer people bother with them on the second and subsequent playthroughs.


Saying that 'squadmates are like Kasumi and Zaeed most of the time' ignores that all companions have always run out of new dialogue. It just so happens you can get 'calibrations' without popping up a dialogue wheel for the attempt of discovering if something is new. Which is actually an improvement in design in some respects, because it's easier now to find out when a character actually has something new rather than the same old thing.

[chasemme]

ME2 was the "worst," in my opinion. But saying one was the worst is misleading. All 3 are phenomenal games. "Least amazing" is a better term.

[tanisha__unknown]

Yes. Ending is a dealbraker. It's not a bad game, but ME1 and ME2 are way better.

[Femlob]

Is ME3 the worst game in the trilogy?

That's a rethorical question, right?

On a related note:

I was just over at a buddy of mine, tackling the newest DLCs (I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for them) - it's been a long time since we've been positively in stitches over glitches and bugs. From Leviathan and its broken ladders to Omega and its broken animations and constant camera OOBs, the production quality of these DLCs is so staggeringly bad that it's hard to believe that BioWare has the gall to call itself a triple-A developer.

And I haven't even touched on the content... I thought selling Horse Armor for 250 MSP was arguably the biggest insult in modern gaming, but BioWare has once again demonstrated that they have no qualms about lowering the bar even further.

Modifié par Femlob, 09 décembre 2012 - 10:50 .

[dsl08002]

not the worst but least good is the right term.

it just lack those final components that is required for the first place

1. hub worlds
2 more mission
3 LI content
4. conversation instead of the auto
5. Choices does matter ( war asset)