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If you were Bioware what ending would you make canon for the new trilogy?


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#126
mcgreggers99

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BD Manchild wrote...

If I were Bioware I wouldn't even make a new trilogy; after not even being able to end this trilogy in a satisfying manner, I'd be cutting my losses, burning the franchise and moving on to something else. There's no point continuing this series if you've already soured relationships with at least half the friggin' fanbase.


An this is why you don't run a multimillion dollar gaming corporation. At this point now that ME is an established "brand" with real industry recognition, extremely good sales and reviews. No publisher in their right mind would 86 a series with this much potential to be milked....and let's not kid our selves...."milked" is exactly how this franchise is going to be handled. I'm ok with that.

#127
Redbelle

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Fandango9641 wrote...

iakus wrote...

I find all the "canon" choices so repulsive I want nothing to do with them.


+1



+2 And I'll raise you a MEHEM ending.

#128
Candidate 88766

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I wouldn't make any ending canon. I think any new ME games should be set before ME3's ending, either by being way in the past or perhaps being alongside Shepard's story.

However, if they made an ending canon then the only one that could make an interesting game is low-EMS destroy. In the epilogue slides of high-EMS destroy, control, and synthesis, everything turns out fine. The only way things might go wrong is if the krogan rebel, but in high-EMS destroy the rest of the galaxy is in good enough shape to beat them back easily (the krogan don't even have a fleet), in control you have a Reaper fleet, and in synthesis they are shown entering a renaissance of sorts regardless of your Genophage choice. And frankly, a whole game of fighting the krogan would be a bit naff.

With low-EMS destroy, the galaxy has been devastated. Entire species have been brought to their knees. Society is crumbling. The few who remain are trying to survive, cut off from their worlds. That sounds like a terrific setting for a game. You could have an almost survival-horror kind of vibe going. Perhaps individual species start to set up 'nations' of sorts around Earth. The remains of the Citadel wards could become run-down hub worlds. Derelict fleets could become areas to be explored.

#129
Dav3VsTh3World

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darkiddd wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

All of them.


Simply put, that just wouldn't work.


Simply put
Yes they can

If they couldn't they wouldn't have made those endings to begin with

#130
Bob Garbage

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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

All of them.


Simply put, that just wouldn't work.


Simply put
Yes they can

If they couldn't they wouldn't have made those endings to begin with


lol

o rly?

#131
George Costanza

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Ieldra2 wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
@George Constanza:
Which ending makes sense and which doesn't is very much a subjective matter.


Plot issues are plot issues. It's not subjective, really. If Darth Vader had walked in at the end of Mass Effect 3 and lightsabred Harbinger in half and won the war for the galaxy it wouldn't make sense. That's not subjective. It just doesn't make sense. Extreme example, I know. But just pointing it out.

There's issues with all three of the endings. There's things that don't tally up. But Destroy brings the least of these issues, and Synthesis, probably, the most. You could try and explain them perhaps in a future game, or with DLC, but with the information we've got, and the constraints of the lore we've been given, some things about the endings, objectively, just don't make sense. Subjectively, you can allow that to slide because they entertain you, or you think the philosophical implications outweigh slight plot inconsistencies - that's fine. But we can't ignore that some things just don't make sense, and some endings are affected more than others.


Let's say it this way: whether or not an ending's inconsistencies have enough weight to reject it as the basis for a sequel is very much a subjective matter. Some of the inconsistencies themselves are also a subjective matter.

As I see it, the EC ending scenarios themselves (everything described after you make the choice) are all consistent and very much acceptable. The problem lies in how they to come to be and in certain parts of the exposition. Which means, any of them can serve as the basis for a sequel, and the sequel would automatically answer some of the unanswered questions.


Let's. How much you're willing to look the other way on is all down to you, as I said in that other post. If you went through the history of stories told, I would hazard a guess that more often than not a story features issues, inconsistencies, holes, etc. Sometimes we don't notice, sometimes we do and we're okay with it, sometimes they're dealbreakers - i.e. they cripple the story.

With Mass Effect, there's a lot I'm prepared to turn a blind eye to for the sake of enjoying the game. I'm a Metal Gear Solid fan, so I'm used to it. With the Extended Cut, I can get through ME3 now and enjoy it, albeit acknowledging that it's still a somewhat lacklustre ending, for me. I think that Bioware could quite conceivably make a sequel using any of the endings, but I do think that some endings would require more explanation to make sense than others.

How much you're willing to put up with aside, I think that when you look at the endings, they each bring different baggage with them, of which Destroy brings the least. It's just the nature of the ending. Destroy has always been the mission, it's what you're told the Crucible is designed for, and it does its job. There's still issues in the story there, mainly down to how ludicrous a contraption the Crucible is and all the questions and baggage that brings with it. But the idea itself doesn't generate too many loose ends.

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.

#132
Dav3VsTh3World

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Bob Garbage wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

All of them.


Simply put, that just wouldn't work.


Simply put
Yes they can

If they couldn't they wouldn't have made those endings to begin with


lol

o rly?



Yes really

You lack imagination, so let me show you
http://social.biowar...3991/1#15233991

#133
Dav3VsTh3World

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George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.

#134
dorktainian

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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.



you dont mention refuse?  although i'd pick destroy, refuse runs this a close second imo.  Refuse is the right to self determination.  Who even says this destroy crudible thing is going to do what it says anyway?  all we have are cutscenes which could be part of a dream.  don't even get me started on control (reaper'd) or synthesis (huskified).

Modifié par dorktainian, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:13 .


#135
George Costanza

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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.


I'm not sure you understood my point. I'm talking purely from a narrative standpoint, that Destroy makes the most sense within the game and would be the easiest to continue into a new series. The others raise more issues.

#136
Dav3VsTh3World

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George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.


I'm not sure you understood my point. I'm talking purely from a narrative standpoint, that Destroy makes the most sense within the game and would be the easiest to continue into a new series. The others raise more issues.


Complex story issues? Your agrument just worked against you there.
You made it sound like Destroy was the easiest and most predictable, where as the other two sound intriguing

#137
George Costanza

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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.


I'm not sure you understood my point. I'm talking purely from a narrative standpoint, that Destroy makes the most sense within the game and would be the easiest to continue into a new series. The others raise more issues.


Complex story issues? Your agrument just worked against you there.
You made it sound like Destroy was the easiest and most predictable, where as the other two sound intriguing


No I didn't. I made it sound like Destroy was the most straight-forward while the other two raised problems with the narrative.

Modifié par George Costanza, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:29 .


#138
Dav3VsTh3World

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George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.


I'm not sure you understood my point. I'm talking purely from a narrative standpoint, that Destroy makes the most sense within the game and would be the easiest to continue into a new series. The others raise more issues.


Complex story issues? Your agrument just worked against you there.
You made it sound like Destroy was the easiest and most predictable, where as the other two sound intriguing


No I didn't. I made it sound like Destroy was the most straight-forward while the other two raised problems with the narrative.


Straight forward story doesn't make a good story, quite the opposite actually.

#139
George Costanza

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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.


I'm not sure you understood my point. I'm talking purely from a narrative standpoint, that Destroy makes the most sense within the game and would be the easiest to continue into a new series. The others raise more issues.


Complex story issues? Your agrument just worked against you there.
You made it sound like Destroy was the easiest and most predictable, where as the other two sound intriguing


No I didn't. I made it sound like Destroy was the most straight-forward while the other two raised problems with the narrative.


Straight forward story doesn't make a good story, quite the opposite actually.


First of all, that's a ridiculous statement. Straight forward stories can be good stories. There's many facets that goes in to what makes a good story - characters, setting, emotions, etc. You can know the outcome to a story going in, and it can still be good because of how it's told. Conversely, a story can have twists and turns galore and be an absolute trainwreck.

Destroy is the most straight-forward option because it was always the mission. It was always the plan. It was what we were aiming for. It was what we were told the Crucible would do. It does that, it ends the mission, and that's that. From a narrative standpoint, Destroy is the ending that requires the least amount of explaining. It just blew the Reapers up, life goes on.

The other endings introduce entirely different ideas that because of their radically different nature bring with them more baggage, i.e. more issues, inconsistencies with established lore, common sense issues, questions, logic...

#140
3DandBeyond

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o Ventus wrote...

High EMS Destroy, before everyone jumps in the bandwagon.


In the absence of a refuse/reject that works and makes sense and isn't suicide, this.

High EMS Destroy where the crucible is intact and destroys only reapers.  Then the galaxy must and can, on its own merit going forward, rebuild and create hopefully a better future from the ruins.  A Phoenix rising From the Ashes, finding Redemption and trying to live up to the ideals of Strength through Diversity.

The problem is that as is, there are two choices that leave the reapers alive, and with them alive there can be no true threat to the galaxy that could not be overcome by setting the reapers on attack mode.  Then, there's an ending that leaps forward to some future time and that does not feature humans as such-it's also an ending that is not taken seriously by BW, nor by a lot of fans that have decided it's just laziness (not my POV).

And, while it can be fun to roleplay as other species, for a great many people the real fun of ME was being able to create a Shepard that was in their likeness or that they really liked the looks of.  A large group of people would want to play as a human.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:47 .


#141
spirosz

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Synthesis, who wouldn't want to roleplay as a Reaper?

Especially if they add kinect as one of the main functions "I know this hurts you" "You can't comprehend this!" 

Modifié par spirosz, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:33 .


#142
CroGamer002

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If I was Bioware, I wouldn't bother with ME4 until I fix most problems in ME3's story and treatment to core ME2 squad.

#143
The RPGenius

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Koobismo's comic. Failing that, the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. Basically, anything halfway intelligent and appropriate, which means nothing Bioware actually made.

#144
clarkusdarkus

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Mesina2 wrote...

If I was Bioware, I wouldn't bother with ME4 until I fix most problems in ME3's story and treatment to core ME2 squad.



#145
Redbelle

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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


I love how you've deduced this

Control: Forced diplomacy, lots of thinking needed, not smart enough
Synthesis: Scientific babbletalk headache, not smart enough
Destroy: BOOM BOOM PEW PEW PEW PEW, 

Hope you don't plan to enter politics.


I'm not sure you understood my point. I'm talking purely from a narrative standpoint, that Destroy makes the most sense within the game and would be the easiest to continue into a new series. The others raise more issues.


Complex story issues? Your agrument just worked against you there.
You made it sound like Destroy was the easiest and most predictable, where as the other two sound intriguing


No I didn't. I made it sound like Destroy was the most straight-forward while the other two raised problems with the narrative.


Straight forward story doesn't make a good story, quite the opposite actually.


In principal, but......

The introduction of the Catalyst, is not straight forward. And it's inclusion is pointed to by many to be the thing that destroys the previous narrative cohesion of the game.

If you have a story where all that happens is the unexpected, then some fans will go 'Yay', others will go 'Awww'. You cannot base a narrative entirely on the unexpected. If you point your narrative in a certain direction you'd better make sure that narrative end's up at it's destination. You can change the destination mid journey to another. You can change the passenger's on that journey. But it needs to eventually end up where it was pointed at the journey's end.

#146
Xandurpein

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I really dislike the idea of canon endings, and I think they need to either completely retcon or retire the Mass Effect universe. That said, if I had to chose, I would pick Destroy because that's the closest thing to the Mass Effect universe I know that I can imagine. Although a game centered around the war of liberation from the autocracy of Reaper-Shepard might be interesting.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 décembre 2012 - 06:03 .


#147
PsiMatrix

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darkiddd wrote...

-In destroy we wouldn't have the reapers around anymore and new conflicts between species could arise without them policing the galaxy or without synthesis transforming everyone into the same thing. Destroy is an ending that leaves a blank slate to work on a new story from scratch thousands of years after the first trilogy and it also avoids having the reapers in a new story. This could potentially show a "what's next" situation after the reaper cycles have been stopped with them destroyed, with a completely different balance of power and a possible new threat and how it could lead to an even more dangerous crisis that a new protagonist has to stop.

Considering all the possibilities I think destroy would be the easiest way to create a new trilogy with a good story that can develop in different paths depending of our choices. I won't hide that I like destroy ending the most but it is the most logical solution to continue the story considering all options.

What do you guys think? Which ending would you make canon to continue the story?

Same as you. Once the Reapers have gone we get a Buffy-style 'we can do anything' with a wry smile at the end that the future is unknown but free. That can mean good OR bad; that's the point.

Even in the best outcome:
  • Batarians are almost wiped out, population decimated by Reapers leaving mostly the criminals and outcasts that were exiled by the Hegemony
  • Krogan have been cured of the genophage but will Wrex & Eve's leadership be enough to quell the long-standing bloodfeud with the Salarians and Turians. Turian bomb on their homeworld
  • Salarians will have to explain why a Yahg was being researched on Surkesh when the Council had forbidden all contact as well as worry about Krogan blaming them for keeping the genophage 'cure' away from them.
  • Turians will have to rebuild which leaves the Volus vulnerable too. Same goes for the Hanar and the Drell and all the other species once protected by other races
  • Geth may be gone or at the very least they might fracture again if they find out they could've been wiped out and thus it would also affect Quarian restoration both physically and environmentally.
  • Earth will be the new hub for the Council till they can figure out how to move the newly restored Citadel, a point of contention amongst the other races being that humans were advancing too fast already. Now they have a seat on the Council AND the Citadel in their home system.
  • Every major homeworld has been ravaged by Reaper forces and the relays are out-of-action. That means a concerted effort to rebuild until the relays can facilitate rapid tranist again and more likely smaller worlds will get help latest of all.
Would Shepard's rallying cry be enough to keep things going after the war ends? Will the alliances hold-up or will it all fall apart?

#148
Dr_Extrem

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@ psimatrix

you forgit the asari ... they were keeping their archives a secret, until it was too late. in additioon, they used it, to cement their superior role within the galactic community ...

there are not enough blue asses out there, to make up for that.


thats the reason we need a hero - a luminous figure who was able to unite the galaxy in the first place. without such a symbol, the community will fall apart.


canonising any ending bears heavy risks ... each ending has a solid fanbase - and if you canonise one, you ****** off the other two.

if they want to make a sequel, they need a universal ending (at least for the galaxy wide status), that is close and personal to shepard and the crew. in this case, we would have choices and control over the fate of our avatar, while the galaxy has the same outcome for everyone.

this would build a solid basement, for future titles and the devs can introduce a new avatar.

#149
AlanC9

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George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


Well, the Control issues could be handwaved away fairly easily. There's all sorts of SF precedent for a benevolent higher civilization that doesn't interfere much... or at least doesn't interfere openly much. Peter Hamilton's Sentient Intelligence would be a good model for the Sheplyst. And note that the relay network is going to come back much faster in Control than in Destroy.

OTOH, I consider the damaged/incomplete relay network to be a feature of Destroy, not a bug, so I'm with you on which ending to pick.

#150
Dr_Extrem

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AlanC9 wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

The other two ends are a little stickier for me. Control adds a couple more strange issues, and Synthesis probably more on top of that. To me, that's just the way it is. It's the nature of more complex ideas - with Destroy, you're literally just blowing **** up. It's a no brainer. Control and Synthesis are both more complex ideas, and so predictably, they both bring with them more issues.

From a personal standpoint, I'd pick Destroy because it's the ending that causes me the least amount of headaches, and because it's the most popular fan choice.


Well, the Control issues could be handwaved away fairly easily. There's all sorts of SF precedent for a benevolent higher civilization that doesn't interfere much... or at least doesn't interfere openly much. Peter Hamilton's Sentient Intelligence would be a good model for the Sheplyst. And note that the relay network is going to come back much faster in Control than in Destroy.

OTOH, I consider the damaged/incomplete relay network to be a feature of Destroy, not a bug, so I'm with you on which ending to pick.


the technical aspects of control are introduced during the game - there is no handwaving necessary and since shepard merges with the catalyst and overwrites its personality, i dont see a problem there.

the relays will not only be faster online, they will be rebuild simultaniously in every system (the reapers wre present everywhere) and they know that to do. my guess is, that it would take a month at maximum.

in destroy, it is a "little bit" more difficult - most scientists and engineers were helping the crucible-project and my guess is, that they are still at the position, where it was build.  
so .. first they would have to find out how the relays work, then they have to repair the first pair and after that, they would have to travel at standard ftl from relay to relay.

but the rebulding and finding new routes throughout space (to reach the relays) would be a nice setup for future stories ... star trek meets mass effect.