162 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonoru]

I would assume OP means people new to the franchise that only jumped recently on it.
So Hardcore, would be fans since the beginning.
Casual, the rest.

[Nonoru]

Lightning Cloud wrote...

 Can't even beat Dragon Age on anything other than Casual.

              

Your avatar and this quote suitts each other perfectly. 

[C9316]

There's more of them, it's as simple as that. And these businesses believe it's more profitable to appeal to them rather than trying to maintain those customers who'd give them repeat business.

[upsettingshorts]

Nonoru wrote...

I would assume OP means people new to the franchise that only jumped recently on it.
So Hardcore, would be fans since the beginning.
Casual, the rest.

Except this doesn't really reveal anything about their preferences.

[Rorschachinstein]

Nonoru wrote...

I would assume OP means people new to the franchise that only jumped recently on it.
So Hardcore, would be fans since the beginning.
Casual, the rest.

Just recently jumped in?

Into gaming or the franchise?

[Neon Rising Winter]

Hardcore I think of as having an interest in games outside just playing them. They'll read about them in advance, they'll have strong opinions on how games should be developed and what makes them good and bad, they might sit on a message board a year before the thing is due to be released and discuss it.

Casual gamers I think of as the people there to just play the game. More influenced by word of mouth, adverts and reviews. I don't view it as a comment on their ability to play a game, more the process by which they get to playing it in the first place.

[Blackrising]

Really, what is a casual gamer anyway?
Someone who doesn't play a lot of games? Well hell, I guess that makes me a casual gamer too. Sorry for being bored by most traditional RPGs.

[TheDon81]

Plaintiff wrote...

Oh look, another "hardcore" elitist. I never get tired of them. I especially love the way that they accuse companies of "selling out" because the latest product didn't meet every single one of their personal demands, and bicker with each other over what being "hardcore" actually means.

In case you fell asleep during this particular Biology lesson, I'll inform you now that habitual gamers do not just pop out of the ground fully formed. Nor is a love of videogames a genetic trait. Everybody starts out casual. You did, I did, this entire forum did, the staff of Bioware did. Everybody did.

Every future "hardcore" snob has to start somewhere, and they might as well start with Bioware. Lord knows they could do worse.

And you know what? The "hardcore" audience is not here to stay. It is, in fact, fluctuating constantly. Hardcore gamers grow up. They get increased responsibilites; jobs, families and so on. They get busy. They die.

A game company that makes no effort to draw in new customers will fail, without question.

So instead of sneering down at the newcomers and the "casuals" from your stack of acquired titles like the Yertle of videogames, might I suggest you do your part to keep the industry alive by being a tad more welcoming?

Honestly, you answered the solution to the problem with your post.
More people are  turning to gaming (casuals) some of them are gonna have gaming as main hobby (hardcore). So as some hardcores get increased responsibilities, get busy or die... statistically more people will go hardcore (more gamers = more hardcore gamers).

In other words, hardcore's are gonna increase, even though casuals are still gonna be a majority.

IMO, Bioware shoul try to cater to those hardcore people, because most casuals don't like complex games with many numbers and lots of development. They want "plug and play".

I have many casual friends, they dislike even Oblivion because of "all the complex numbers and options."

RPG is a genre for hardcore's... there is little doubt about that.

[Navasha]

For me, the difference between hardcore and casual would probably be most described in the relative complexity of the game.

I will say it... I love micromanagement of games. I grew up on games of all kinds and I loved the games that involved the most "needless" things. Star Trail comes to mind. You had to have your party hunt and gather ingredients each night at camp. You set their guard watch schedules to see who might be awake at a particular time should something happen.

That kind of stuff that you simply don't find in modern games. People that enjoy that kind of 'make work' complexity tend to be what I would consider hardcore. People that love stats would also probably fall in that category. They want to know how the exact attribute points make up their character, people that even know what a THAC0 score would be, that sort of thing.

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Casual is more people who just play games that are easy turn arounds. A game they can pop in for an hour or 2 and have some fun. Hardcore gamers play more games like role-playing games and adventure games and all other types, they play tons of games and sink lots of hours within them. Thats not to say they don't have lives. They do. Hardcore gamers just play longer more complex game. Casual gamers play games that are sort turnarounds. For example a hardcore gamer would play Dark Souls for its engrossing world and intense challenge. Casual gamers might play something like COD or Halo or even Gears of War because they are relatively easy to get into, don't require much attention to have fun and are short.

Hardcore gamers can play a game like COD but they are more likely to play for story. Whereas Casual would play for the instant gratification or multiplayer.

That's how I look at it. Its sort of like the term "RPG" itself. There's so many ways to define a casual gamer or hardcore gamer.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Casual = games you can pick up and put down at a whim.

Hardcore = games that require significant chunks of time/attention to play.

I believe these terms are independent from difficulty or "complexity." A good casual game is easy to learn and difficult to master. I consider FFTactics A2 (favorite DS game) to be casual because it only requires my attention for the duration of a battle, and even then, I can save, quit, and put it away until I have more time. And yet it gets very difficult and requires a lot of thought.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 09 décembre 2012 - 11:58 .

[Artemis_Entrari]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

My question wasn't really directed at you, but rather the OP (just to clarify since I am prone to not directly quoting the post above me when I respond to posts above me >.>).

Although anyone is free to answer.

I guess as good of a place as any is within the context of the OP's usage.  It's vague and general, since the post lacks specifics.


So what attributes make up a casual player and a hardcore player?

In the context of the OP's post, my definition would be a hardcore fan is someone who has followed BioWare, and bought all Bio's products, since the BG days.  The kind of gamer who has done so because they liked a certain type of game that Bio seemed to cater to until recently.

A casual fan, again in the context of the OP, is someone who isn't necessarily a "BioWare" fan, but a fan of action games who can be swayed to purchase a product made by BioWare only after BioWare alters its focus for its games to a more action-oriented slant, and who likely wouldn't touch another BioWare product if BioWare opted for, say, a more DA;O approach or ME1 approach than DA2 or ME3.

I guess the basic feeling is BioWare is more concerned with converting fans of the action/shooter genre into becoming fans, than they are about maintaining the same loyal fan base who prefer RPGs over the past decade.

[d4eaming]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Casual = games you can pick up and put down at a whim.

Hardcore = games that require significant chunks of time/attention to play.

I believe these terms are independent from difficulty or "complexity." A good casual game is easy to learn and difficult to master. I consider FFTactics A2 (favorite DS game) to be casual because it only requires my attention for the duration of a battle, and even then, I can save, quit, and put it away until I have more time. And yet it gets very difficult and requires a lot of thought.

By this definition, I'm a "hard core" gamer Games like Assassin's Creed, Dragon Age, MOO3, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, and, um, WoW that require pretty significant dedication are my favorites. Yet I don't identify as "hard core" at all. Granted, my aversion to "hard core" gamer stems from knowing someone who was so utterly snobby and l33t about games that it makes me want to puke my guts out that be associated with that kind of gross attitude.

[axl99]

I like to think of the casual market as people who are just getting into games. It's a lot like the beginning of the arcade era. You have people who play games, and people who don't. These days lots of people play games, it's just there's a lot more potential for casual gamers to become hardcore gamers. Let them learn, let them grow, and they'll be able to appreciate the dedication involved in more challenging games. Particularly ones involving player skill, be it your intellect or your mechanical skills or your application of both.

[Pelle6666]

EA... That's why.

[Tinu]

TheDon81 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
RPG is a genre for hardcore's... there is little doubt about that.

Modifié par TinuHawke, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:09 .

[Zjarcal]

Lol, is this a serious question?

$$$

That's why.

[hoorayforicecream]

There are no casual players on game forums.

[Plaintiff]

Monica21 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
My intent was not only to address his question but also the underlying false assumptions that caused him to ask it in the first place.

You have no idea what his assumptions are/were. You were the one making assumptions about him being a sneering elitist, neither quality of which was present in his original question. His original question however, is perfectly valid. The irony here being that you, who profess to understand the casual gamer and why game companies sell to them, came off as the very kind of sneering elitist you hold in such antipathy.

I know perfectly well what his assumptions are, they're the assumptions that cause terms like "hardcore" and "casual" to even exist. If he didn't have those assumptions, he wouldn't use those words.

[In Exile]

JimTasty wrote...

 Hardcore fans are here to stay. Meanwhile casual fans come and go

Seriously! How dare Bioware add origin stories and force (for example) all of my human PCs into being nobles or mages!? This game isn't an RPG. And don't get me started on pathetic casual features like regenerating health and mana! What is this, grade school? Casual's can't even play the game the real way with real difficulty.

And don't talk to me about how the game doesn't have party death or a grid inventory. No RPG is a real RPG without a grid inventory! And what do you mean party inventory is shared? A true RPG wouldn't have that! Silly casuals!!

....

Oh, wait. We're ranting about how DA2 isn't hardcore enough. Silly me. I've been here too long!

Modifié par In Exile, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:17 .

[d4eaming]

Plaintiff wrote...

I know perfectly well what his assumptions are, they're the assumptions that cause terms like "hardcore" and "casual" to even exist. If he didn't have those assumptions, he wouldn't use those words.

Reminds me of the screaming matches the "hardcore" get into with the "casuals" on the WoW boards. Both segments have the same right to the game, just that one of them resents it and bases their enjoyment on whether the other segment gets the same stuff as them- and the other segment doesn't care what the first one gets as long as they get to have fun, too.

[In Exile]

Oh, wait, I have a better one!

Okay, I'm tired of this list dialogue reducing RP freedom by forcing me to choose a pre-written line! We need to have a dropdown list of nouns, and then I can write out what my PC would say around that topic and imagine then saying it!