162 réponses à ce sujet

[Celene II]

Why cant they have the game for hardcore and for casuals if you want to divide it up in the fashion.

They had auto leveling in the first DAO game. That removes some hardcore problems.

They had auto gear for your companions in DA2. That removed some hardcore problems.

Now all they have to do is find a way to put some of those hardcore features back in without hurting their casual streamlined action game.

They are making efforts, I see that from the interviews. I just hope that the customization and progression is once again up to RPG levels.

[Pedrak]

Hardcore market = $
Casual market = $$$

That's why the Wii has been churning out many games (not all of them; some are OK) that in another console would be derided from every point of view, and yet it's making truckloads of money. Because it appeals to casual gamers.

Modifié par Pedrak, 10 décembre 2012 - 10:33 .

[Nattfare]

Seems to be lots of things that defines a hadrcore or a casual gamer.
Almost sounds like a hardcore gamer always know what he/she wants in a certain game or what should be in it. The more difficult and complicated it is, the more hardcore it is.

The casual gamer doesn't even know what he/she is playing or know what to want from it. Plus they can only play something that doesn't require that you have a greater attention span than a goldfish.

I prefer not to put anyone in either folder really. Someone who plays at least 5h a day (like me mostly) doesn't have to be very competitive and agressive against newcommers in a game. Nor can I see why someone has to finish a game more than once if they have found something else to move on to after a playthrough.

I like playing complex games if they are interesting or appeal to me. Same with simpler games if they can entertain me for the moment. Sometimes I finish a game at least twice, sometimes the second playthrough ends in the middle of it since I've had enough.

Does that make me a hardcore or a casual gamer?
Me, I prefer just calling myself a gamer. Plain and simple.

Sorry for wasting your time, done rambling now.

[Huntress]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

How does one define a casual and hardcore fan?

Casual player come to the BSN ask questions answered months before and after the game was released, drop his opinion of the game he just bought and leave for "BETTER" games.

I don't consider myself "hardcore of dragon age" but the betters ones out there who think they are, talk about everything the game has and what it missed. In other words they are the ones who keep the game forum alive.

[Kidd]

I take it the real question in this thread is "why do BioWare develop this game for more people than those who exist inside my exact niche?"

There's two possible answers to that question that come to my mind at once. The first is simple, they may not want to create a game that fits in your niche and only your niche even if they were able to. They would probably prefer if you still found the game fun, however! =)

The second answer would be similar to the one that Harada gave the fighting game community when asked why fighting games weren't always designed with the most hardcore of hardcore in mind. 

Wulfram wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I haven't played the game more than once.

Well then you're a hardcore talker about the game, but not a hardcore player of the game.

Oooh, definitions. I love definitions! Especially when people start asking me about Half-life 2 and Deus Ex only to label me a poser when I say I've not played it. Cause all true hardcores have beaten HL2 and played Deus Ex, apparently!

(labels and definitions? let's just be gamers, all of us =))

Allan Schumacher wrote...

As much as I like to think it was never the case, once upon a time I was bad at games.

Indeed! Oh, that feeling of recognition when my sister told me that I was good enough at Megaman on my own that I wouldn't need her help in the beginning of Gutsman's stage in Megaman 1 any longer. Felt like such a milestone, even though today it feels like an incredibly small hurdle =)

[spirosz]

I'm curious, people who were huge Bioware fans during Baldur's Gate (when they originally came out), did you think Bioware was appealing to a "casual" market or "dumbing down" games with KOTOR, Jade Empire?

[Imryll]

Rorschachinstein wrote...
I always thought Casual fan was someone who played angry birds. 

I know for sure Bioware isn't trying to appeal to the angry birds crowd.

Actually, a lot of folks I'd consider to be hardcore gamers play a variety of games. Certainly my husband plays both Angry Birds and games I'd describe as hardcore. Gamers don't necessarily fit into neat little boxes.

We didn't not buy DAII because it wasn't hardcore enough. We didn't buy it due to requiring Origin, our dislike of "awesome," and our preference for emergent gameplay/emphasis on what the character does vs. Bioware's preference for scripted events, cinematics, and character development via dialogue.   There's nothing wrong with either their making the sorts of games they want to make or with us playing the sorts of games we want to play. Still, evolving tastes mean that they can't take hardcore gamers for granted any more than any other market segment. We all have choices.

[In Exile]

spirosz wrote...

I'm curious, people who were huge Bioware fans during Baldur's Gate (when they originally came out), did you think Bioware was appealing to a "casual" market or "dumbing down" games with KOTOR, Jade Empire?

As I was jokingly mocking earlier in the thread, the "hardcore" BG2 crowd though DA:O was dumbed down for the casual market.

[milena87]

I always thought the difference between a casual and a hardcore gamer was just the time each spent on this hobby (by playing a game or just by talking/reading about it).

[Kidd]

spirosz wrote...

I'm curious, people who were huge Bioware fans during Baldur's Gate (when they originally came out), did you think Bioware was appealing to a "casual" market or "dumbing down" games with KOTOR, Jade Empire?

I loved KOTOR when it came out. Sadly can't say anything about how I would've felt when JE came out, that came out during some years I was stupidly thinking I had outgrown gaming.

[spirosz]

In Exile wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I'm curious, people who were huge Bioware fans during Baldur's Gate (when they originally came out), did you think Bioware was appealing to a "casual" market or "dumbing down" games with KOTOR, Jade Empire?

As I was jokingly mocking earlier in the thread, the "hardcore" BG2 crowd though DA:O was dumbed down for the casual market.

So I'm assuming I'm right, that the cycle has always been there.  

[Solas]

HiroVoid wrote...

I demand Dragon Age 3 have a mini-game where we launch golems from a catapault onto opposing castles as part of a conquest.

This made me chuckle. 

Modifié par Carbon-based, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:36 .

[spirosz]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I'm curious, people who were huge Bioware fans during Baldur's Gate (when they originally came out), did you think Bioware was appealing to a "casual" market or "dumbing down" games with KOTOR, Jade Empire?

I loved KOTOR when it came out. Sadly can't say anything about how I would've felt when JE came out, that came out during some years I was stupidly thinking I had outgrown gaming.

I was young when those two came out and I picked up KOTOR because of the cover, haha.  JE because I played it at my buddies place, didn't even know the two were made by Bioware at the time.  That's why I'm curious if the same mindset was happening back then, with the whole "dumbing down" argument.  

[Althix]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

How does one define a casual and hardcore fan?

perhaps better if OP would say it like this: fan of hardcore games and fan of casual games. It makes more sense.
Hardcore fan, is a guy who is playing game 20/7. When casual fan is playing a game 2-4/7.

However, hardcore game for me is Planescape Torment, or original Xcom, or Shadow of the Horned Rat, or TES Arena. Because those games are complex and require brains to play well.
Casual games... well, there is a lot of them. Those games made more around having satisfaction through fun, rather than satisfaction trough understanding, planning and tactics. Casual games are those where fun and easy gameplay is more important than anything esle.

let say DA:O is casual game, but very well made casual game. Addictive. With many choices and possibilities, even if you are locked on straight path.

[Ridwan]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

How does one define a casual and hardcore fan?

You don't. It's a term made by publishers to explain why their games failed to sell. "It's a casual boom!"

[In Exile]

spirosz wrote...
So I'm assuming I'm right, that the cycle has always been there. 

Yup. In the good old days, it was regenerating health/mana is for n00bs and the origins kill roleplay. Now no one cares about the former and the latter is the best feature ever.

[Tigerman123]

Pfft Bioware sold-out over a decade ago by catering to the "RPG" fan, I was perfectly happy with stompy robot games thank you

[Nerevar-as]

In Exile wrote...

spirosz wrote...
So I'm assuming I'm right, that the cycle has always been there. 

Yup. In the good old days, it was regenerating health/mana is for n00bs and the origins kill roleplay. Now no one cares about the former and the latter is the best feature ever.

Hey, I miss non-regenerating health, made you think twice before jumping into a fight in sandbox games. Same with mana, using magic in Morrowind is far more interesting than in Oblivion, you couldn´t be trigger happy with spells.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

How does one define a casual and hardcore fan?

Casual fan might not finish the game at all or maybe just once. Casual fan might not bother with the character customization feature. In a game like Mass Effect 3, are more likely to play Action Mode where dialogue choices are made for them by the game and where the "iconic" Shepard (Sheploo or Red-Haired FemmeShep) is the PC. Casual fans might not buy DLC individually, but rather as part of a GOTY or Ultimate Edition bundle, six months to a year (or more) after initial release.

Hardcore fans will often play through the same game more than once in order to enjoy variations in story, choices, etc. and to enjoy playing as different classes and to try out different combinations of class specializations. Hardcore fans tend to customize their characters, often mocking default appearances (well I do at any rate). If we like a game enough, we buy the DLC often at full price and on the day of release. We are invested in the series for the long run. We aren't playing a BioWare game to kill time until the next installment of CoD comes out.

Those are some examples of what I believe define casual vs hardcore fans/ gamers.

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I don't see myself as either a hardcore gamer or a casual gamer. I like what I like and tend to stick with what I like. I grew up playing the Kings Quest games and played everyone of them in the series. I have played both Dragon Age games multiple times and still play them. I have just recently started reading the books. If I enjoy a franchise, I will stick with it and play what I enjoy. I like Bioware but I don't play the Mass Effect series because I suck at shooter games. I enjoy playing RPG's more than any other game style, but I don't play them all because I know what my strengths and weaknesses are. Just like I don't really play Oblivian or Skyrim because I don't care for first person.  Yes, I know that you can have third person view, but it is not the same as having a game that is specifically made as a third person view.

Modifié par Rpgfantasyplayer, 10 décembre 2012 - 05:33 .

[hexaligned]

spirosz wrote...

I'm curious, people who were huge Bioware fans during Baldur's Gate (when they originally came out), did you think Bioware was appealing to a "casual" market or "dumbing down" games with KOTOR, Jade Empire?

I never played KOTOR (back then), just because I never was a fan of the star wars setting, Jade Empire was the first Bioware game I actively disliked however.  If by "dumbing down" you mean they were designed for consoles, and the actual game mechanics are far less complicated and have far fewer options than 2nd edition DnD, then yes, they were.  If by "dumbing down" you mean they were designed for mouth breathers, then no, they weren't.