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Just Finished Synthesis


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#51
KingZayd

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OperatingWookie wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

No, I will not "get over it"...


Then, what? You'll keep preaching your interpretation and dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your viewpoint as inferior? For fuck's sake, people have differing opinions and interpretations, stop trying to force your ideals as morally superior. Honestly, this is borderline trolling...

Are you ****ing kidding me?


If this is a serious question, then no, I'm not.


You have to understand. People like this also think that the Geth don't have a right to being alive.


Not really. A lot of IT supporters don't believe the Geth will die.


I suppose TIM is alive too?


Yeah, potentially. As Shepard would still be passed out in London.

#52
Red Panda

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KingZayd wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

No, I will not "get over it"...


Then, what? You'll keep preaching your interpretation and dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your viewpoint as inferior? For fuck's sake, people have differing opinions and interpretations, stop trying to force your ideals as morally superior. Honestly, this is borderline trolling...

Are you ****ing kidding me?


If this is a serious question, then no, I'm not.


You have to understand. People like this also think that the Geth don't have a right to being alive.


Not really. A lot of IT supporters don't believe the Geth will die.


I suppose TIM is alive too?


Yeah, potentially. As Shepard would still be passed out in London.


So, you're saying Cerberus being indoctrinated was all part of a dream, which was also meant to indoctrinate Shepard.

DId Shepard ever leave Earth?

#53
Not_art_just_plotholes

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Be careful not to let that green **** get on you, it never washes off.

#54
KingZayd

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OperatingWookie wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

No, I will not "get over it"...


Then, what? You'll keep preaching your interpretation and dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your viewpoint as inferior? For fuck's sake, people have differing opinions and interpretations, stop trying to force your ideals as morally superior. Honestly, this is borderline trolling...

Are you ****ing kidding me?


If this is a serious question, then no, I'm not.


You have to understand. People like this also think that the Geth don't have a right to being alive.


Not really. A lot of IT supporters don't believe the Geth will die.


I suppose TIM is alive too?


Yeah, potentially. As Shepard would still be passed out in London.


So, you're saying Cerberus being indoctrinated was all part of a dream, which was also meant to indoctrinate Shepard.

DId Shepard ever leave Earth?


No. I'm not.

The most popular idea within indoctrination theory, is that the ending takes place in Shepard's head after he gets blasted near to death by Harbinger.

#55
nevar00

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Bill Casey wrote...

It sounds an awful


Fixed for my thoughts on it.

Stupid space magic out of nowhere and for a sudden "DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL ENDING".  Out of all those Charlie Brown endings, this one was the Charlie Browniest. 

@ OP:  I suppose they could recreate Shepard from everyone's DNA.  The game gave up on following any sort of logic already, why not continue down that road. 

#56
nevar00

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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

They can stop writing stories where the "good" ending is the one where differences disappear so we can finally understand each other, because diversity is just too dang hard, and then I will totally not talk about racism and other such things.



Quick! Which pic is from Synthesis epilogue?


Image IPB
Image IPB


The one with the green skin/glowing eyes.

What's your point, that Bioware copy-pasted pictures?

#57
Lordofn00bs

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People seem to forget that the synthesis ending is what the entire ****ing galaxy is fighting against. It destroys the entire meaning of life and gives it NO purpose. And by choosing the synthesis ending the Reapers win. It's what they've been trying to achieve since the very beginning.

Modifié par Lordofn00bs, 10 décembre 2012 - 11:23 .


#58
Liamv2

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OperatingWookie wrote...

This hate towards people because they like an ending is why I dislike these forums.

Leave him alone.



#59
AshenSugar

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I admit on my first playthrough, the ending made zero sense to me, all I knew is that I didn't want to wipe out the Geth. and so I just chose Control, not really putting much thought into it, whatever I chose, the consequences would be unknown.

It occurred to me later that I had probably made the right choice, as I imagined (at the time) that choosing Destroy would create a galaxy-wide holocaust due to the Relay explosions, killing giga-trillions and sterilising countless planets of all life, leaving the handful of survivors in a new dark age, or condemning them to slow starvation.

On repeat playthroughs I was able to think things through a little better, especially after the gift of the Extended Cut DLC, which helped display the consequences of my actions. After weighing matters in my mind, I concluded that Control was still the best solution, given the limited choices available.

What it really comes down to (in my mind at least) is:

Destroy: No Reapers, war over, but at the cost of genocide of an entire race - one I had worked hard to preserve, and bring a peaceful resolution to their conflict with the Quarians.
Cost unacceptable. For me, Destroy is a pure Renegade choice, a chance to achieve the desired result, regardless of cost, potentially preserving Shepard's own life in the bargain.


Synthesis: Reapers no longer a threat, war over, but with unknown and potentially dire long-term consequences. Little is explained about the effects and nature of synthesis. At it's best and most benign, it could result in a new galactic peace, based upon uniformity of form and purpose, but at what cost?

"We must join them, we must join with the Reapers, Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel"

Sound familiar?

I believe that the underpinning lesson within the Mass Effect series is that differences are to be preserved, and celebrated.

We celebrated the fact that, with effort, the various races were able to overcome their hostilities, and prejudices, regardless of philosophical premise, location or physical makeup. We cured the Genophage, and saw Turians and Krogan - once the bitterest of enemies, joined together for common cause. We (pending choices) witnessed an end to the destructive conflict between the Geth and the Quarians. We saw Humans given a place on the Council. Even the Battarians played their part.

Ultimately, our Prothean squad-mate explained how the very homogenisation, and enforced uniformity brought about by the Prothean's empire-building was one of the very factors that contributed to their eventual extinction. Lacking diversity and the flexibility that comes with it, they were unable to adapt to the Reaper invasion. It was this very diversity (according the Javik) that could allow the current galactic community defeat the Reapers.

Synthesis (for me at least) flies directly in the face of this lesson, replacing diversity with homogenised uniformity. Rather than celebrating the differences between species, synthesis (potentially) creates a single common 'race'. A vast melting pot similar to the one used in the old song. When you really think about it, this is the very essence of the Reapers - Each Reaper a community of harvested civilisations, now melded into a single, vast entity; all individuality fused together into one synthetic being. Synthesis says: "Diversity, and differences between species can never be reconciled. We must therefore fuse all into one organism", the polar opposite of the original Mass Effect lesson.

My Shepard rejects this choice utterly, seeing it as a defeat, a failure to learn the lessons he has witnessed first hand.


Reject: The 'throw the toys out of the pram ending', and an obvious wrong choice, as doing so dooms the entire galactic civilisation. Choosing to go down in a blaze of glory has a certain romantic feel to it, it's very Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, but refusing a series of choices that would save trillions of lives, and instead choosing to sacrifice everyone and everything simply in order to stick it to the man (or in this case the Star Bratt) is as murderously nihilistic as it is selfish. Shepard already knows The Reapers cannot be defeated by conventional means, the Crucible is the only hope.


This leaves only one solution - Control.

It's not without it's danger, and certainly a gamble. How do we really know that Shepard will be able to control the Reapers indefinitely? What if his personality is slowly subsumed into the Reaper collective, allowing the cycle to begin again?

This was the ultimate goal of Cerberus all along, is Shepard eventually forced to admit that The Illusive Man was right all along?


Regardless, given the limitations of the choices available, I firmly believe that Control offers the best possible outcome.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 10 décembre 2012 - 11:47 .


#60
dorktainian

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i must admit i like the synthesis ending visually....but not as a part of ME3. Thematically it is abhorrent.


also ashensugar. how do you control something which is controlling you?

#61
Ieldra

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Twitchie wrote...
Just finished the game and chose the synthesis ending.

Theoretically, Sheperd is now part of every being in the galaxy since his/her energy was combined with the Crucible's. If the beings of the galaxy are super smart now, they could look for signs of Sheperd's being within their own DNA/Code. Once the traces has been identified, a new being could be constructed with Sheperd's essence. This would make Cerberus' work look like play-doh. I want more Sheperd!! It'd be cool if BioWare made a sequel and allowed a Collector's Editon purchase to unlock a Shepard character!! I would definitely pay extra to continue my toon. 

I think scenarios of Shepard coming back after Synthesis should remain firmly in the realm of headcanon. I have such a scenario, alternatively based on the idea that (a) the Reapers have a habit of capturing the information that makes up a mind if it comes their way, (B) Shepard's personality having been stored in Javik's memory shard, © the Crucible storing Shepard's personality and sending out a copy of the information - after all information can be copied, (d) Shepard spontaneously re-coalescing.

But that's headcanon. I don't want to see anything Shepard in the next game.

@AshenShugar:
Synthesis does not destroy any diversity between organic species. It does not create a unified species. Are all life forms on Earth the same just because they're all based on DNA? Synthesis does carry the theme of "diversity is dangerous" but it doesn't go to remove it except in removing certain perspectives from synthetics.
I agree Control is an acceptable scenario. Just don't reject Synthesis for the wrong reasons.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:29 .


#62
Ieldra

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nevar00 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

They can stop writing stories where the "good" ending is the one where differences disappear so we can finally understand each other, because diversity is just too dang hard, and then I will totally not talk about racism and other such things.



Quick! Which pic is from Synthesis epilogue?


Image IPB
Image IPB


The one with the green skin/glowing eyes.

What's your point, that Bioware copy-pasted pictures?

The point is that the people are still the same people whether you choose Synthesis or not. Synthesis does none of the things many of its detractors claim it does.

#63
Nimrodell

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Twitchie wrote...
Just finished the game and chose the synthesis ending.

Theoretically, Sheperd is now part of every being in the galaxy since his/her energy was combined with the Crucible's. If the beings of the galaxy are super smart now, they could look for signs of Sheperd's being within their own DNA/Code. Once the traces has been identified, a new being could be constructed with Sheperd's essence. This would make Cerberus' work look like play-doh. I want more Sheperd!! It'd be cool if BioWare made a sequel and allowed a Collector's Editon purchase to unlock a Shepard character!! I would definitely pay extra to continue my toon. 

I think scenarios of Shepard coming back after Synthesis should remain firmly in the realm of headcanon. I have such a scenario, alternatively based on the idea that (a) the Reapers have a habit of capturing the information that makes up a mind if it comes their way, (B) Shepard's personality having been stored in Javik's memory shard, © the Crucible storing Shepard's personality and sending out a copy of the information - after all information can be copied, (d) Shepard spontaneously re-coalescing.

But that's headcanon. I don't want to see anything Shepard in the next game.


Headcanon or not, the real Shepard ceased to exist the second s/he jumped into the beam (same goes for the control ending) - no matter stored information, the original is destroyed, the thing that made him/her an unique individual is no more. Re-creating Shepard won't give back the real one, unless Jesus Christ himself resurrects him/her in his Second coming lol. So - re-creating Shepard that way is actually getting another person, something that bears genetic mark or the original, but it's another consciousness and living being - wouldn't like that to happen. Anyway, watch this episode of BBC Horizon:The Secret You and everything will become more clear.

#64
Aurora313

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You know - if they just took a page out of Evangelion's books and made the Crucible perform a Galaxy wide Human Instramentality Project... And at the very end, Shepard had the choice between allowing it to complete itself or going 'F*ck you' and destroying everything that ever existed. I would have been totally ok with that....

It worked for Evangelion alright...

Sorry. Just finished watching End of Evangelion, and realised that Shepard was in a thematically similar situation to Shinji. Both are at the point of despair, possibly/probably well past it, wants everything to be over and is given the choice to end it all one way or another...

Modifié par Aurora313, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:46 .


#65
Ieldra

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Lordofn00bs wrote...
People seem to forget that the synthesis ending is what the entire ****ing galaxy is fighting against. It destroys the entire meaning of life and gives it NO purpose. And by choosing the synthesis ending the Reapers win. It's what they've been trying to achieve since the very beginning.

So....

..this:

Image IPB

equals this?

Image IPB

I think my bullsh*t detector just went off the scale.

#66
iOnlySignIn

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Kawamura wrote...

There is nothing creepy at all about the idea of Shepard deciding to force their genetic code on all other living things for the greater good and so to remove differences because that's the only way we'll get along.

Well you basically Romance everyone and everything in the universe. Which is a major reason many (if not most) players plays this game.

#67
iOnlySignIn

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Ieldra2 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

They can stop writing stories where the "good" ending is the one where differences disappear so we can finally understand each other, because diversity is just too dang hard, and then I will totally not talk about racism and other such things.



Quick! Which pic is from Synthesis epilogue?


Image IPB
Image IPB


The one with the green skin/glowing eyes.

What's your point, that Bioware copy-pasted pictures?

The point is that the people are still the same people whether you choose Synthesis or not. Synthesis does none of the things many of its detractors claim it does.

Oh right. And Tali is an Afghan with four of her fingers sawed off.

#68
AshenSugar

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also ashensugar. how do you control something which is controlling you?


But how would you define 'controlling you?'

Are you referring to the Indoctrination Theory here? A belief that Shepard is already under Reaper Control (via indoctrination)?

Or are you using the term in it's broader sense, basing your conclusions upon the idea that the Reapers already 'control' the galaxy, based upon them directing advanced civilizations along paths of their choosing via the relays/Citadel etc?

If it's the former, then I would say that the Indoctrination Theory remains unproven. I'd personally like it to be true, as it so neatly wraps up so many remaining loose ends and plotholes..... however I strongly suspect that Bioware's 'canon' does not incorporate it.

If you refer to the latter - civilizations 'controlled' by the Reaper tech they use, it's arguable that successfully controlling the Reapers would achieve the desired result. effectively reversing the entire situation.

#69
Ieldra

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Nimrodell wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Twitchie wrote...
Just finished the game and chose the synthesis ending.

Theoretically, Sheperd is now part of every being in the galaxy since his/her energy was combined with the Crucible's. If the beings of the galaxy are super smart now, they could look for signs of Sheperd's being within their own DNA/Code. Once the traces has been identified, a new being could be constructed with Sheperd's essence. This would make Cerberus' work look like play-doh. I want more Sheperd!! It'd be cool if BioWare made a sequel and allowed a Collector's Editon purchase to unlock a Shepard character!! I would definitely pay extra to continue my toon. 

I think scenarios of Shepard coming back after Synthesis should remain firmly in the realm of headcanon. I have such a scenario, alternatively based on the idea that (a) the Reapers have a habit of capturing the information that makes up a mind if it comes their way, (B) Shepard's personality having been stored in Javik's memory shard, © the Crucible storing Shepard's personality and sending out a copy of the information - after all information can be copied, (d) Shepard spontaneously re-coalescing.

But that's headcanon. I don't want to see anything Shepard in the next game.


Headcanon or not, the real Shepard ceased to exist the second s/he jumped into the beam (same goes for the control ending) - no matter stored information, the original is destroyed, the thing that made him/her an unique individual is no more. Re-creating Shepard won't give back the real one, unless Jesus Christ himself resurrects him/her in his Second coming lol. So - re-creating Shepard that way is actually getting another person, something that bears genetic mark or the original, but it's another consciousness and living being - wouldn't like that to happen. Anyway, watch this episode of BBC Horizon:The Secret You and everything will become more clear.

Here I have to disagree. After all a personality is nothing more but information stored and run on a chemical substrate. Nothing mystical about it. Recreate both and combine them in the same way you found them and you have recreated the person. The difference in Control is that the physical substrate is not re-created so of course there will be differences. Still, I'd say we have an ascended Shepard as opposed to a new personality based on Shepard. The difference is mainly philosophical.

#70
Brovikk Rasputin

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Lots of insults being 'thrown' at the OP for having a different opinion. Surprise.

#71
Liamv2

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

There is nothing creepy at all about the idea of Shepard deciding to force their genetic code on all other living things for the greater good and so to remove differences because that's the only way we'll get along.

Well you basically Romance everyone and everything in the universe. Which is a major reason many (if not most) players plays this game.


True

good job commander you fu*ked the galaxy

#72
dorktainian

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AshenSugar wrote...

also ashensugar. how do you control something which is controlling you?


But how would you define 'controlling you?'

Are you referring to the Indoctrination Theory here? A belief that Shepard is already under Reaper Control (via indoctrination)?

Or are you using the term in it's broader sense, basing your conclusions upon the idea that the Reapers already 'control' the galaxy, based upon them directing advanced civilizations along paths of their choosing via the relays/Citadel etc?

If it's the former, then I would say that the Indoctrination Theory remains unproven. I'd personally like it to be true, as it so neatly wraps up so many remaining loose ends and plotholes..... however I strongly suspect that Bioware's 'canon' does not incorporate it.

If you refer to the latter - civilizations 'controlled' by the Reaper tech they use, it's arguable that successfully controlling the Reapers would achieve the desired result. effectively reversing the entire situation.

broader sense.. check out my synthesis theory...  also think 'The Matrix'  & 'Alice in Wonderland'

#73
Aurora313

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That's interesting. I look at Synthesis and think 'Evangelion' mixed with Gundam 00.

Modifié par Aurora313, 10 décembre 2012 - 01:06 .


#74
Steelcan

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Should I jump in or not?

#75
Aurora313

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Go crazy.