39 réponses à ce sujet

[Adugan]

 I have no idea if this is true for everyone, but here is why I enjoyed DAO so much. In my opinion it has so much more replayability than DA2, mainly because of the spirit of the game itself. 

DAO was about building a legend, a lowly noble/bum/mage becomes a warden and accomplishes legendary feats while helping random strangers along the way. The end of DAO was very fitting for my headcanon warden mage, finding Morrigan once again and disappearing through the mysterious portal.  At the end I like to believe that my mage becomes the most powerful mage in history, just to add to that feeling. The whole game is like a fairy tale or ancient ballad of the mighty hero who saves the world and disappears, perhaps to return when there was another threat to the world. 

DA2 didnt have much of that. Sure, you can sail away with a loose ship wench, but it doesnt have that same feeling. In that story you either help a terrorist blow up a chantry or perform genocide on a bunch of mages. Not many legendary feats, as I see it. 

I hope DA3 has more of that epic feeling, leading a great army to kill an dangerous evil or slaying an ancient demon that threatens Thedas. Something along those lines. Liberating the mages or building a new home for elves would be great. Just something better than doing chores and fetch quests for random contracts.

Also, maybe add a mention of the warden in DA3. Maybe some story sung by a bard or an obscure mention of saving Redcliffe or finding the ancient secrets of the dwarves in the deep roads. 

Modifié par Adugan, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[TCBC_Freak]

I laughed when you said, "lowly" noble, that's an oxymoron. haha

But on point. I enjoyed those things in DAO as well, but I also loved that DA2 had a more real feel to it. The end wasn't ideal, you aren't the all powerful demigod who can make it all work it out; but it's a relatively normal person who is doing the best they can in an imperfect world. What you didn't like about DA2 were some of my favorite parts. Different people have different things they like. I'd honestly hope they do something new in DA3 too, they don't tell a story like in the other two. But we'll see.

[BanksHector]

I like what they tried to do in DA2 more then the story of DAO. I like the more personal tone that DA2, but they did not have time to make it a great game. If all acts was as good as 2, DA2 would of been a great game for me, but it was still good.

They both have about the same replayability to me.

[Adugan]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

I laughed when you said, "lowly" noble, that's an oxymoron. haha

But on point. I enjoyed those things in DAO as well, but I also loved that DA2 had a more real feel to it. The end wasn't ideal, you aren't the all powerful demigod who can make it all work it out; but it's a relatively normal person who is doing the best they can in an imperfect world. What you didn't like about DA2 were some of my favorite parts. Different people have different things they like. I'd honestly hope they do something new in DA3 too, they don't tell a story like in the other two. But we'll see.

Lol, lowly as in some random noble without a lot of power. The Noble origin has almost no power compared to what you can become at the end of the game.

[BlueMagitek]

Well, DA2 was more of a deconstruction of a hero.

While DA:O was more grand in scale, you should be aware that the DA verse is rather black as far as fantasy lands go. Yes, there's magic, but being a mage is like being a beacon of light amongst a sea of black for demons. Elves are either mistreated or little better than bandits. Dwarves are thieves or heartless nobles. I won't lie, I do enjoy a good tale every now and then, but DA usually doesn't allow for that. Even your 'good' decisions have a bite to them (Harrowmont vs. Bhelen, Dark Ritual, Werewolves, etc).

For the sort of story you seem to enjoy, I suggest you take a look at KotOR (1). There are others (Riveria, the Promised Land & Radiant Historia also come to mind)

[Rorschachinstein]

You certainly did feel more important in DA:O than DA2 that's for sure.

[Sith Grey Warden]

TCBC_Freak wrote...

I laughed when you said, "lowly" noble, that's an oxymoron. haha

But on point. I enjoyed those things in DAO as well, but I also loved that DA2 had a more real feel to it. The end wasn't ideal, you aren't the all powerful demigod who can make it all work it out; but it's a relatively normal person who is doing the best they can in an imperfect world. What you didn't like about DA2 were some of my favorite parts. Different people have different things they like. I'd honestly hope they do something new in DA3 too, they don't tell a story like in the other two. But we'll see.

I think the DA2 "normal person" thing could have worked if not for the insanity of the combat. Someone who can disintegrate crowds of people by stabbing them with cheese knives is not a "normal person." By increasing the number of enemies so spectacularly, DA2 set Hawke and his companions apart in a way that made his helplessness harder to buy.

[TCBC_Freak]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

I think the DA2 "normal person" thing could have worked if not for the insanity of the combat. Someone who can disintegrate crowds of people by stabbing them with cheese knives is not a "normal person." By increasing the number of enemies so spectacularly, DA2 set Hawke and his companions apart in a way that made his helplessness harder to buy.

I'm able to ignore that as imaginative story telling by Varric; for example, the first combat in the game has Hawke kill an ogre pretty much single-handedly with no difficulty. Cassander calls him out on it and he "fixes" the story, now it's Hawke, Avaline, and one of his siblings barely killing the ogre. I take all the crazy combat as Varric's poetic license.

That or it's the needs of players to have "awesome" combat, though we can argue if it is awesome or not. That was the intent, you shouldn't imagine that that is how it "really" happened.

[Bob Garbage]

DA2's overall story just wasn't as well written as DA:O, though there are great parts, I still really like the game though. I didn't at first but over time I've come around. I expect combat will be similar to DA2 in 3, but I hope the depth and quality of the story in on par with DA:O.

[thats1evildude]

Adugan wrote...

The whole game is like a fairy tale or ancient ballad of the mighty hero who saves the world and disappears, perhaps to return when there was another threat to the world.

I assume that, after DAO, my Warden tried to track down Flemeth and was killed.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 10 décembre 2012 - 07:18 .

[Adugan]

Hanz54321 wrote...

This thread is not DA3 related. I predict it will be locked in the next 24 hours. Unless, of course, everyone ties it in to DA3.

Good job minimod, your sharp mind is invaluable in these forums. You have missed nothing of my post.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Adugan wrote...
I hope DA3 has more of that epic feeling, leading a great army to kill an dangerous evil or slaying an ancient demon that threatens Thedas. Something along those lines. Liberating the mages or building a new home for elves would be great. Just something better than doing chores and fetch quests for random contracts.

Personally, I enjoyed DA2's deconstruction of the traditional "epic hero."  Seriously, how many ancient evils or century-long quests are there lurking out in the world?  At some point, it starts to stretch disbelief.  

That being said, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive by any means for DA3.  It's more a matter of implementation than anything else.  The game would have to establish the epic badassery along with the more human vulnerabilities and make it very clear that success in one storyline does not guarantee success in another.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 décembre 2012 - 10:07 .

[Celene II]

I want DA3 story to be more like DAO then DA2

I want DA3 mechanics to be more DAO then DA2

DA2 was limited, restrictive, depressive, and sometimes just boring.

No one in DA2 could touch Alistair for wit or Morrigan for spite

DA3 needs to be bigger in story and more rpg in mechanics.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Nostalgia.

[Adugan]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Adugan wrote...
I hope DA3 has more of that epic feeling, leading a great army to kill an dangerous evil or slaying an ancient demon that threatens Thedas. Something along those lines. Liberating the mages or building a new home for elves would be great. Just something better than doing chores and fetch quests for random contracts.

Personally, I enjoyed DA2's deconstruction of the traditional "epic hero."  Seriously, how many ancient evils or century-long quests are there lurking out in the world?  At some point, it starts to stretch disbelief.  

That being said, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive by any means for DA3.  It's more a matter of implementation than anything else.  The game would have to establish the epic badassery along with the more human vulnerabilities and make it very clear that success in one storyline does not guarantee success in another.

Finding out about the Qunari, freeing mages, finding a home for the elves, finding Kal Sharok, exploring the Black City, finding out about the sentient darkspawn. Who knows what else BW could think up if they wanted to?

[Pedrak]

I too prefer more epic stories with a vast scale and scope, but that's not the biggest problem with DA2, I think.

A more personal story could have worked. But DA2 did VERY little with the concepts it introduced.

The whole game was set in a single city. Thus, the city should have been extremely vivid, detailed and memorable, like Baldur's Gate, Athkatla, Sigil. Instead, Kirkwall felt bland, vanilla and empty. This was probably the biggest mistake. If you limit your locations so much, then they have to be absolutely spectacular, brimming with life and with an exquisite level of detail.

The game introduced an unreliable narrator mechanics, and used it... what, twice? In the tutorial and in the comedic scene of Varric storming his brother's mansion.

DA2 told a "longitudinal" story unfolding through many years, but they did very little with this, and the time-skips actually hurt the pacing and made the story feel unfocused.

So, while I prefer DAO's approach in terms of general story, I think DA2's could have worked well, in theory.
But it was not well handled.

Modifié par Pedrak, 10 décembre 2012 - 10:27 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

CrustyBot wrote...

Nostalgia.

For a three year old game? No.

It may not have been the second coming or anything, but it most certainly was a solid experience. Solid enough to be the foundation of a new fantasy series, despite some blatant shortcomings here and there... or, well, it should have been, were it not for the abject direction they took it in with only their first sequel.

I suppose there's some irony there, though, in that it unexpectedly ended up hurting not just its own foundation, but also that of the entire Bioware brand. Never would have suspected the releases in the year that followed to bomb as badly as they did, either, at least not at that specific point in time.

It was a shame, though, for most of the ideas pitched in DA2 weren't necessarily bad in theory, but as Pedrak already put it in a way more eloquent than I care to type right now: the execution was rather ******-poor. 

Cobbler, stick to thy last, indeed.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

CrustyBot wrote...

Nostalgia.

3 years = Nostalgia?
LOL

[Raikas]

DAO was about building a legend, a lowly noble/bum/mage becomes a warden and accomplishes legendary feats while helping random strangers along the way. The end of DAO was very fitting for my headcanon warden mage, finding Morrigan once again and disappearing through the mysterious portal. At the end I like to believe that my mage becomes the most powerful mage in history, just to add to that feeling. The whole game is like a fairy tale or ancient ballad of the mighty hero who saves the world and disappears, perhaps to return when there was another threat to the world.

DA2 didnt have much of that. Sure, you can sail away with a loose ship wench, but it doesnt have that same feeling. In that story you either help a terrorist blow up a chantry or perform genocide on a bunch of mages. Not many legendary feats, as I see it.

I hope DA3 has more of that epic feeling, leading a great army to kill an dangerous evil or slaying an ancient demon that threatens Thedas.

Fair enough, I suppose, but building a legend and generally being epic has been done to death.

I enjoyed the "buffeted by fate" theme of DA2 and thought the idea behind it was something I'd like to see more of in future games. DA2 did have some serious issues, but from my perspective they had little to do with the story.  The DLC suggested that the developers were aware of most of those issues (waves of enemies, recycled maps) so I would expect a future game with similar themes to be a generally better game overall. Still, I won't be surprised if we get a more traditional hero in DA3.

Modifié par Hervoyl, 10 décembre 2012 - 05:18 .

[Tinu]

Nizaris1 wrote...

DA is dead....

Then why are you here? 

[Medhia Nox]

TCBC_Freak: Do you honestly think Hawke did the "best he/she could"?

If I saw it that way - I may have liked the story.

I honestly saw Hawke as just another witless victim to the events unfolding around him as... let's say... your average Kirkwall merchant NPC.

"I" could have done more to stop the events at the end... simply by walking to the Templars and telling them where Anders is living.

====

I didn't think Origins story was the most important of our time and should be endlessly emulated... but, I did appreciate it's unique spin on a traditional story.

DA:2 felt very much like the CGI they attempted to superimpose over the original Star Wars movies.

Glitz used poorly... solely for the sake of newness.

===

Opinions are even more common than the story of Origins.. but oddly enough none of us get tired of our own.

[FaeQueenCory]

The reason why people feel that Origins was more of a grand scale is because Hawke had 0 influence on anything in the world, while the Warden influenced everything they involved themselves in.
It didn't have to do with DA2 having a bad story, in fact it's story on paper is quite good and decent, but HARDLY original as so many people seem to try and defend it by, however its execution... was just awful.
Most likely do to a rushed development, because I don't think the creators were lazy.

And I believe they have learned not to rush the development.... so DA3 should be just fine on the story's execution... probably.
Will the story be any good? Who the hells knows.

[mutombomania]

DAO offered more exploration and replayability than DA2.
I've played DAO 6 or 7 times(with DLCs) and still found some new random encounter or discovered a way to play the story and sidequests a bit different.
after 3 Sessions of DA2 i really had enough. its not bad, but i couldnt feel a big difference which side I choose (templar or mages) or which friends or rivals I choose.