173 réponses à ce sujet

[TheButterflyEffect]

This is something that DAO did so-so, though I was very disappointed that DA2 totally lacked a love interest suitable for a darker character. Bleh.

Okay, yeah, I HATED Morrigan's character and relationship with the male PC. Really, the main thing is, I don’t understand the attraction to B-wordy women. She leave you to die in battle unless you knock her up with a demon kid you can’t even get weekend custody of, she will only stop insulting you if you buy her thousands of gold pieces’ worth of whimsical trinkets and jade hand mirrors. Then she’ll sleep with you if you kill her mom.

Truly, the picture of a healthy, loving relationship... umm, not.

Ladies got Zevran, who was OK for a dark PC since he wasn't overly moral and didn't mind some of the questionable decisions the PC can make, but nonetheless he wasn't really chaotic/evil.

And like I said, DA2 really had nothing whatsoever for PC's who are not such do-gooders.

Whatever. I just don't think the "Defrosting the Ice King/Queen" and having to persuade the person to like you is always necessary for a dark/evil romance. I think it makes a lot more sense for the dark love interest to be a person who follows the dark PC out of respect, as he/she is such an exceptional person. Even better if the dark LI has deep feelings of caring or affection from the start (and it doesn't matter if they make their feelings known from the start or keep them hidden, either scenario can work great).

Really, if it's done right, a dark LI can be affectionate towards the protagonist without it damaging their "darkness".

And the PC doesn't even have to be "dark" from the start. I think a great idea would be an evil LI trying to seduce a good/light PC and tempt them to the dark side.

I think that's a hell of a lot more alluring and attractive than an LI who's rude and hostile to you from the start and is ridiculously reluctant to like you or show any positive feelings whatsoever.

Please oh please I REALLY hope this game will have a sexy, evil MALE LI who is charming... and sexy.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 10 décembre 2012 - 08:42 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dorn Il-Khan in the new BG:EE is a horrible SOB who is romanceable by both genders and all alignments. Provided the PC is willing to help him murder a bunch of people who wronged him. There's only a pre-romance series of conversations in BG:EE, but it could be an interesting take on romancing an actual bad guy.

I would actually disagree re: DA2. It is possible to pair up Anders with a Hawke who is just as ruthless and bat**** as he is, and it's kind of awesome. You do have to do some nudging for both characters, though.

[Fiacre]

While I do find your idea interesting... Morrigan is not a ****. She can turn into one, but she isn't one. Just like any other woman is not a ****.

In any case, I would agree that Anders could work for a fanatically pro mage PC, considering the Chantry thing. I wouldn't be opposed to "darker" LIs, though, provided we get a good reason for why they would follow us.

[Imp of the Perverse]

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

[Pedrak]

I'd say that Morrigan is very much an evil character, whereas Merrill was more misguided and supporting her seems more a mistake than a deliberately evil decision. I mean, Morrigan was more than an antisocial Ice Queen - she disapproved things like helping people in danger and giving a corpse a proper burial.

Still, I like how she was written - in fact, I found her one the best Bio's companions ever. She was petty and mean and scheming, but 1) there was a good reason for this (she was raised by Flemeth) and 2) she showed glimpses of humanity here and there.

Also, the relationship she had developed with my goody-two-shoes Warden probably influenced my decision to perform the DR. So, in a way, there was some kind of seduction / temptation toward evil (?) involved.

Modifié par Pedrak, 10 décembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Really, if it's done right, a dark LI can be affectionate towards the protagonist without it damaging their "darkness".

I think that actually depends on the character itself. I for one would be truly irritated if every "dark" character I came across fell to their knees with declarations of love, simply because my character is the bees knees.

I really don't think you need to play the affection card over and over again to make a "dark" romance deep or engaging. There are so many other things you can do with a self-absorbed, self-reliant, narcissistic character, it doesn't always need to end with affectionate happy fluffy bunny love.

Bishop in Neverwinter Nights 2 was arguably the most evil person in your party, and he never once admitted true affection to a Female Player. (Here comes the arguments that he wasn't a love interest/content was cut/blah blah blah).

He mock flirted, taking the ****** out of you more than anything, riled up Casavir about your relationship, insulted you, even betrayed you, never once showed you true affection, and yet I consider him the best love interest in the game. Is it because he's so deep and complex and he has his reasons for putting survival first? Sure, but there's something more important that Bishop's character did, something that no other love interest in that game could quite manage with the same level of impact - He admitted vulnerability.

During the final battle of the game, if you've been flirting with Bishop and mocking him and getting his approval up, he'll practically beg you to just leave. Forget the battle, forget the big evil, just run away with him and never look back, and that - in my opinion - is more powerful in a self-reliant character than any level of affection.

A character as closed off as Bishop wouldn't admit that he loved you, he'd never show you open affection or gratitude. He's too reserved for that, too self centered, too strong and self-reliant to admit that kind of weakness. But that sudden admission of vulnerability... That spoke to me louder than all the flimsy affections of Dragon Age.

Personally, I find the "you're the only person who understands" card to be overused to the point of exhaustion. Open affection from a character that is self-centered, self-reliant and egotistical to the point of narcissism has begun to feel like a cop out. It's like the writers are actually refusing to search for different approaches to displays of affection, respect and gratitude. It's getting old. So very old...


Of course that's just me. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[TheBlackAdder13]

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

You think practicing blood magic, even when you don't use it to harm anyone else, is more evil than being a professional assassin who doesn't mind killing people on a whim? Or someone who's trying to use you to harness the soul of an old god (which may or may not be evil -- we obviously don't have enough info to know)? 

Off to the templars with you I say. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:55 .

[Pedrak]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

I'd say that Morrigan is very much an evil character, whereas Merrill was more misguided and supporting her seems more a mistake than a deliberately evil decision. I mean, Morrigan was more than an antisocial Ice Queen - she disapproved things like helping people in danger and giving a corpse a proper burial.

Still, I like how she was written - in fact, I found her one the best Bio's companions ever. She was petty and mean and scheming, but 1) there was a good reason for this (she was raised by Flemeth) and 2) she showed glimpses of humanity here and there.

Also, the relationship she had developed with my goody-two-shoes Warden probably influenced my decision to perform the DR. So, in a way, there was some kind of seduction / temptation toward evil (?) involved.

You think practicing blood magic, even when you don't use it to harm anyone else, is more evil than being a professional assassin who doesn't mind killing people on a whim? Or someone who's trying to use you to harness the soul of an old god (which may or may not be evil -- we obviously don't have enough info to know)? 

Off to the templars with you I say. 

Er... no, I actually said the opposite of that.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Pedrak wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

I'd say that Morrigan is very much an evil character, whereas Merrill was more misguided and supporting her seems more a mistake than a deliberately evil decision. I mean, Morrigan was more than an antisocial Ice Queen - she disapproved things like helping people in danger and giving a corpse a proper burial.

Still, I like how she was written - in fact, I found her one the best Bio's companions ever. She was petty and mean and scheming, but 1) there was a good reason for this (she was raised by Flemeth) and 2) she showed glimpses of humanity here and there.

Also, the relationship she had developed with my goody-two-shoes Warden probably influenced my decision to perform the DR. So, in a way, there was some kind of seduction / temptation toward evil (?) involved.

You think practicing blood magic, even when you don't use it to harm anyone else, is more evil than being a professional assassin who doesn't mind killing people on a whim? Or someone who's trying to use you to harness the soul of an old god (which may or may not be evil -- we obviously don't have enough info to know)? 

Off to the templars with you I say. 

Er... no, I actually said the opposite of that.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong person! 

[Fredward]

Whenever people use "evil" and "love interest" in the same sentence my brain just lights up with neon signs going 'BISHOP! BISHOP' (yesiknowbiowaredidntmakenwn2imjustusingitasanexample). xp

[Althix]

yes Bishop is evil character and i love him for that. Morrigan however is not evil, she is more complex character and that is why she is best character ever made by Bioware.

However i didn't saw any truly evil characters in both settings or last Bioware games.
However there is possibility that we will have some "bad" boy or "bad" girl, like Jack... or Isabela (which is hard to call her a bad, she is **** after all). Well something on that level i guess.

because there is no reason in making strong... well let say LI line, if character it self is weak and poorly made. And so far Bioware failed to deliver any memorable characters after Morrigan or Loghain.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:07 .

[Medhia Nox]

Oh - I hope I can beat my love interest... cause that's "evil."

Maybe force them into sexual situations - so "evil".

Or have a spiraling tour de force across Thedas hurting each other with cheating, jealousy and lies. SO evil!

.... wait what? The "other" kind of evil?

Oh - my bad.

[Althix]

oh wait, i almost forgot the only reason to play DA2. Arishok is good also.

[Vilegrim]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Oh - I hope I can beat my love interest... cause that's "evil."

Maybe force them into sexual situations - so "evil".

Or have a spiraling tour de force across Thedas hurting each other with cheating, jealousy and lies. SO evil!

.... wait what? The "other" kind of evil?

Oh - my bad.

I hope we can warm ourselves by the screaming form of a cruxified and burning Chanter, while her Templars are forced to eat the excrement of abominations by our soldiers, and the congregation has to choose which if them live, and which die, they make this choice by who is willing to murder the templars when their meal is done.

I also want to portray a charcter who would be storming to the rescue, different playthrus, different extremes.

[esper]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

And this is why we cannot have an evil love interest, we cannot even agree on what is evil.

I don't think Merrill has one evil bone in her body, and if Zev' (who admitted that he liked being an assassin and would properly keep doing it even free from the crows) isn't considered evil, then no one will.

I also think that evil depends on the pc.

[Fredward]

If we can't settle on a definition of evil (which we can't if we don't want to get philosophical up in this female dog) lets say "amoral."

[Milan92]

No evil please!

http://bit.ly/Ua8lf9

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
*snip*

TheButterflyEffect, you hate two out of four of the love interests in DA:O. You spammed the BSN with numerous threads about how much Alistair sucks. Now you hate Morrigan and the relationship she can have with the Warden? Are you actually a fan of these games or do you keep playing them just to find things to complain about?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think she's probably a troll. That said, the LI concept she describes sounds cool, except as a male I kind of hope they make it a woman.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

If we can't settle on a definition of evil (which we can't if we don't want to get philosophical up in this female dog) lets say "amoral."

But Zevran, Morrigan, Anders by the time you could romance him, and to an extent Isabella all qualified as amoral.

[Althix]

by who?

[TheBlackAdder13]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
*snip*

TheButterflyEffect, you hate two out of four of the love interests in DA:O. You spammed the BSN with numerous threads about how much Alistair sucks. Now you hate Morrigan and the relationship she can have with the Warden? Are you actually a fan of these games or do you keep playing them just to find things to complain about?

So in order to be a fan and enjoy the game, you have to like the LIs and their romances. Right... 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

secretsandlies wrote...

by who?

If you're talking about my second comment, who doesn't think being an unrepentant assassin, being Morrigan, blowing up a Chantry, and being a pirate qualified as amoral? (I'm not getting into Isabella and Zevran's "Anything that Moves" attitude because I don't see any moral problem with that.)

[upsettingshorts]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Then she’ll sleep with you if you kill her mom.

Actually, you can sleep with her even before getting to Lothering.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[Mark of the Dragon]

It would be interesting to see such a companion. I especially like the idea of having a dark companion who tries to lure you into doing bad things. Sounds...sexy!!!