173 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

If we can't settle on a definition of evil (which we can't if we don't want to get philosophical up in this female dog) lets say "amoral."

But most of the companions have their amoral points, all ready.

[Ash Wind]

esper wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

And this is why we cannot have an evil love interest, we cannot even agree on what is evil.

I don't think Merrill has one evil bone in her body, and if Zev' (who admitted that he liked being an assassin and would properly keep doing it even free from the crows) isn't considered evil, then no one will.

I also think that evil depends on the pc.

I'd agree Merril is not inherently evil, she is that annoying mix of Arrogant, Naive and Stubborn. She believes she knows more than others around her that have more knowledge of such things (the clan keeper, whatever her name was) and no one is able to derail her actions, foolish as it might have been.

As for Morrigan (one of my fav characters) killing her mom as the OP states, it comes down to a matter of trust. If you believe Morrigan about the Grimoire held in the Circle Tower, then Morrigan's actions are little more than self defense.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[vortex216]

I don't think you give Morrigan enough credit OP. In fact, I think She was the best LI in Dragon Age. As far as evil LIs go, you would need an evil companion. I'm not sure how that would work.

[ScotGaymer]

I think this is a bit of a silly request because Dragon Age isn't a universe that really has any set "morality" system in place. They take a more grey approach to it, so that the morality of the universe is more akin to real life and thus most folk are never really truly "good" or truly "evil".

Sorry, OP.

[esper]

Ash Wind wrote...

esper wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

And this is why we cannot have an evil love interest, we cannot even agree on what is evil.

I don't think Merrill has one evil bone in her body, and if Zev' (who admitted that he liked being an assassin and would properly keep doing it even free from the crows) isn't considered evil, then no one will.

I also think that evil depends on the pc.

I'd agree Merril is not inherently evil, she is that annoying mix of Arrogant, Naive and Stubborn. She believes she knows more than others around her that have more knowledge of such things (the clan keeper, whatever her name was) and no one is able to derail her actions, foolish as it might have been.

As for Morrigan (one of my fav characters) killing her mom as the OP states, it comes down to a matter of trust. If you believe Morrigan about the Grimoire held in the Circle Tower, then Morrigan's actions are little more than self defense.

Arrogant and stubborn, oh yes, very much. Naive, no. If anyone was naive it was Marathari who took a demon on its word and actually believed it.

But really. All the LI so dar has have their good and their bad points, and I think that asking for an 'evil' one will be difficult in a game with no aligementmeter and thus no way of objectively saying what is considered good and evil in universe. (Not to mention from our point of view)

[Ash Wind]

esper wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

esper wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

And this is why we cannot have an evil love interest, we cannot even agree on what is evil.

I don't think Merrill has one evil bone in her body, and if Zev' (who admitted that he liked being an assassin and would properly keep doing it even free from the crows) isn't considered evil, then no one will.

I also think that evil depends on the pc.

I'd agree Merril is not inherently evil, she is that annoying mix of Arrogant, Naive and Stubborn. She believes she knows more than others around her that have more knowledge of such things (the clan keeper, whatever her name was) and no one is able to derail her actions, foolish as it might have been.

As for Morrigan (one of my fav characters) killing her mom as the OP states, it comes down to a matter of trust. If you believe Morrigan about the Grimoire held in the Circle Tower, then Morrigan's actions are little more than self defense.

Arrogant and stubborn, oh yes, very much. Naive, no. If anyone was naive it was Marathari who took a demon on its word and actually believed it.

But really. All the LI so dar has have their good and their bad points, and I think that asking for an 'evil' one will be difficult in a game with no aligementmeter and thus no way of objectively saying what is considered good and evil in universe. (Not to mention from our point of view)

Ooooooooh I would have to disagree. Granted I only had 3 DA2 play-throughs and its been a while, but it was Merril who believed and foolishly thought she could control the Demon. The Keeper took it into herself to protect Merril. My recollection was that the Keeper kept trying to get Merril to stop her 'research', which of course, she wouldn't, because he knew all (Arrogant, stubborn & naive) to the point of being exhiled from the clan and going with hawke to the City.

Of course, this may not be the case, as I said, its been a while.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:21 .

[Liamv2]

how bout this fella

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

jokeing jokeing

Modifié par Liamv2, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:24 .

[In Exile]

esper wrote...

Arrogant and stubborn, oh yes, very much. Naive, no. If anyone was naive it was Marathari who took a demon on its word and actually believed it.

Merril was absolutely naive. Marethari was an idiot, but Merill being of the opinion that her mother figure would let her run off and do what she believed was wreck her life  was a 10 on the naive scale. My position has always been that Merril's self-serving arrogance about how she was the special saviour of the Dalish, willing to give up anything to show them their history, was her source of moral responsibility.

[esper]

Ash Wind wrote...

esper wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

esper wrote...

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

I don't think Morrigan or Zevran could be considered LI's for evil characters. In both cases the relationship was built more on overcoming the character's antisocial baggage than with scheming and mustache twirling. If anything I'd say Merrill in DA2 is more of an evil choice, a non-rivalry relationship with her pretty much means condoning blood magic.

And this is why we cannot have an evil love interest, we cannot even agree on what is evil.

I don't think Merrill has one evil bone in her body, and if Zev' (who admitted that he liked being an assassin and would properly keep doing it even free from the crows) isn't considered evil, then no one will.

I also think that evil depends on the pc.

I'd agree Merril is not inherently evil, she is that annoying mix of Arrogant, Naive and Stubborn. She believes she knows more than others around her that have more knowledge of such things (the clan keeper, whatever her name was) and no one is able to derail her actions, foolish as it might have been.

As for Morrigan (one of my fav characters) killing her mom as the OP states, it comes down to a matter of trust. If you believe Morrigan about the Grimoire held in the Circle Tower, then Morrigan's actions are little more than self defense.

Arrogant and stubborn, oh yes, very much. Naive, no. If anyone was naive it was Marathari who took a demon on its word and actually believed it.

But really. All the LI so dar has have their good and their bad points, and I think that asking for an 'evil' one will be difficult in a game with no aligementmeter and thus no way of objectively saying what is considered good and evil in universe. (Not to mention from our point of view)

Ooooooooh I would have to disagree. Granted I only had 3 DA2 play-throughs and its been a while, but it was Merril who believed and foolishly thought she could control the Demon. The Keeper took it into herself to protect Merril. My recollection was that the Keeper kept trying to get Merril to stop her 'research', which of course, she wouldn't, because he knew all (Arrogant, stubborn & naive) to the point of being exhiled from the clan and going with hawke to the City.

Of course, this may not be the case, as I said, its been a while.

And it taking the demon in the Keeper didn't consider that she might have been the target all along, the demon might have said that it would harm Merrill to get Marathari to do exactly what she did (freeing it and giving it an position of power to boot). It only needed to play on Marathari's pride of being the older and more experienced off the two off them.

Whereas Merrill was expecting it to end wrong, removed herself from the clan and took Hawke along to kill her, should the worst scenario happen.

If we are discussing naivity Marathari wins in my opinon.

Modifié par esper, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:37 .

[Tootles FTW]

From what little we know of Inquistion, and taking what we know from the novels, I'm thinking Cole would fit quite nicely in this role.

[esper]

Tootles FTW wrote...

From what little we know of Inquistion, and taking what we know from the novels, I'm thinking Cole would fit quite nicely in this role.

I do not want a companion let alone a Li, who has had major characther development outside of the game media.

[Vearsin]

And it taking the demon in the Keeper didn't consider that she might have been the target all along, the demon might have said that it would harm Merrill to get Marathari to do exactly what she did (freeing it and giving it an position of power to boot). It only needed to play on Marathari's pride of being the older and more experienced off the two off them.

Whereas Merrill was expecting it to end wrong, removed herself from the clan and took Hawke along to kill her, should the worst scenario happen.

If we are discussing naivity Marathari wins in my opinon.

[/quote]
 Marathari knew it either herself or Merrill who was going to be possesed and then killed. It wasn't pride that drove her decision it was love.

Modifié par Vearsin, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:52 .

[esper]

Vearsin wrote...

And it taking the demon in the Keeper didn't consider that she might have been the target all along, the demon might have said that it would harm Merrill to get Marathari to do exactly what she did (freeing it and giving it an position of power to boot). It only needed to play on Marathari's pride of being the older and more experienced off the two off them.

Whereas Merrill was expecting it to end wrong, removed herself from the clan and took Hawke along to kill her, should the worst scenario happen.

If we are discussing naivity Marathari wins in my opinon.

 Marathari knew it either herself or Merrill who was going to be possesed and then killed. It wasn't pride that drove her decision it was love.

I think that the 'love' thing was destroyed from Marathari's side with her actions in act 2. Marathari might have believed it to be love, but her actions were not that of love. Or at least it was that kind of love and overly controlling parent have.

Modifié par esper, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[Althix]

sounds more like stupidity rather than love.

[Tigerman123]

Demands a self interested and conceited love interest

Complains when they subsequently act in that fashion

[Overdosing]

Fiacre wrote...

While I do find your idea interesting... Morrigan is not a ****. She can turn into one, but she isn't one. Just like any other woman is not a ****.

I'm sorry, but I just had the urge to say that I might disagree with this. I'm not trying to be sexist here.

But in any case, having a darker LI, particularly a male one, is an interesting idea. But it might end up going the same route as Morrigan's love story.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
*snip*

TheButterflyEffect, you hate two out of four of the love interests in DA:O. You spammed the BSN with numerous threads about how much Alistair sucks. Now you hate Morrigan and the relationship she can have with the Warden? Are you actually a fan of these games or do you keep playing them just to find things to complain about?

So in order to be a fan and enjoy the game, you have to like the LIs and their romances. Right... 

Spare me your (...) sarcasm. You don't have to like the LIs and their romances to enjoy a game, but when you spam the forums with like six different threads all about how Alistair sucks, I am allowed to question whether this person is a fan of the games or just enjoys trolling.

[Althix]

well Alistair do suck deep.

However you have a point, for example in ME i don't like any LIs avaliable, but i like the series.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 10 décembre 2012 - 05:33 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Please oh please I REALLY hope this game will have a sexy, evil MALE LI who is charming... and sexy.

Anders?

"Evil" does not apply to Dragon Age. Even the worst scumbags in Thedas have redeeming qualities, and the "bad guys" generally have good intentions. You know, like in real life.

[Medhia Nox]

@Pseudocognition: is that what having "grey" morality is? Total lack of accountability for your actions? No wonder I despise the concept so much. An utter celebration of one's personal failure.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Pseudocognition: is that what having "grey" morality is? Total lack of accountability for your actions? No wonder I despise the concept so much. An utter celebration of one's personal failure.

No one "has grey morality." Grey & Grey Morality is a trope that applies to a fictional universe.

[upsettingshorts]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Pseudocognition: is that what having "grey" morality is?

No.

Medhia Nox wrote...

 Total lack of accountability for your actions?  

What are you babbling about?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 décembre 2012 - 05:40 .

[upsettingshorts]

Just as a followup: If you are of the mind that for a character to be compelling they have to be either Snidely Whiplash or Dudley Do-Right, then Dragon Age is not the setting for you.

[DeathScepter]

Milan92 wrote...

No evil please!

http://bit.ly/Ua8lf9

she is cute. I like her already. 

[Althix]

Pseudocognition wrote...
Anders?

what?