20 réponses à ce sujet

[Celene II]

I for one believe that the potion cooldown from 2 should be only a hard or nightmare option. Bring back the DAO version of potions for Easy and Normal.

It is a valid compromise for both sides of the argument. I do not want to have to either become a healer or force me to have a healer cause i can use one potion per fight.

The limitation does not cause fights to be harder they just make the game more restrictive.


Celene II

[Wulfram]

Some pretence of difficulty should be present on all levels of difficulty IMO. Except perhaps the lowest. Allowing potion spam is just plain bad design.

Though having the cooldown's length be affected by difficulty level could make sense.

Modifié par Wulfram, 10 décembre 2012 - 10:08 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Celene II wrote...
The limitation does not cause fights to be harder they just make the game more restrictive.

Placing restrictions on the player's resources (potion, gold, healer, or otherwise) is pretty much by definition a way to make fights harder. Though arguably not the best way.

But generally I agree with you.  I'm happy playing on harder difficulties, but if I just wanna replay a quest's dialogue or redo a choice, going through all that combat is just a slog.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 décembre 2012 - 10:12 .

[Tigerman123]

You didn't need a healer to have an effective DA2 party, in fact using one was a suboptimal build.

Anders was best used for killing things

[DarkSpiral]

My last playthrough (on normal) involved the basic rule that Behtany was the only mage allowed. Never even did the quests for Merrill and Anders (I don't recommend doing that by the way, I just wanted to see what happened). Potions were the only healing I had. And I never had a serious problem. A few touch-and-go battles with bosses or some of the fights with truly large amounts of reinforcements. I was surprised, actually. Three rogues and a tanks were able to kill things THAT fast, I guess.

[Doctoglethorpe]

I think it would be better, rather then having cooldowns, to have a deminishing returns system.  Use a second ption too quickly and it has less effect until your tolerance wears off, the more you spam it the less it actually does for you to whatever rate and degree Bioware think proper.  Best of both worlds, ey. 

[SerTabris]

I think reducing the Heal spell cooldown would help too. More than DA:O's 5 is okay, but 60 is a bit much.

[Rawgrim]

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

[Kileyan]

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

What older rpgs had heal spell or potion timers as a major balancing point?

Or when you say old rpgs are you actually meaning Dragon Ages 2?

Anyways I am all for reducing heal spell or potion timers as a balancing factor for the easier levels. I think that still encourages people to play the game somewhat within the ruleset.............as opposed to just reducing the damage taken and reducing npc health, so that everything dies in one hit, and is little threat to you. At least in easier levels people would still watch their health and use spells to heal, rather than not having to do either.

Modifié par Kileyan, 11 décembre 2012 - 03:52 .

[Rawgrim]

Kileyan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

What older rpgs had heal spell or potion timers as a major balancing point?

Or when you say old rpgs are you actually meaning Dragon Ages 2?

Some had casting time, wich was in effect the same as a cooldown. In some games you could also OD on healing potions\\health packs. On normal difficulty.

[Kileyan]

Rawgrim wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

What older rpgs had heal spell or potion timers as a major balancing point?

Or when you say old rpgs are you actually meaning Dragon Ages 2?

Some had casting time, wich was in effect the same as a cooldown. In some games you could also OD on healing potionshealth packs. On normal difficulty.

Yeh you have me there, I did like casting time being a factor, but thats different that a 30 second cooldown, unless you are talking about crazy long casting times that essentially would be only useful outside of combat and nullified by the fact everyone heals out of combat.

Anyways I edited above, I think reducing timers is a better way to balacne diff than reduce damage taken and make it easier to kill bad guys.

Modifié par Kileyan, 11 décembre 2012 - 03:56 .

[Rawgrim]

Kileyan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

What older rpgs had heal spell or potion timers as a major balancing point?

Or when you say old rpgs are you actually meaning Dragon Ages 2?

Some had casting time, wich was in effect the same as a cooldown. In some games you could also OD on healing potionshealth packs. On normal difficulty.

Yeh you have me there, I did like casting time being a factor, but thats different that a 30 second cooldown, unless you are talking about crazy long casting times that essentially would be only useful outside of combat and nullified by the fact everyone heals out of combat.

Anyways I edited above, I think reducing timers is a better way to balacne diff than reduce damage taken and make it easier to kill bad guys.

I am more in favor of healing potions not working instantly. To be fair you do have to swallow the stuff, and it also has to get into your system.

[Kileyan]

Rawgrim wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

What older rpgs had heal spell or potion timers as a major balancing point?

Or when you say old rpgs are you actually meaning Dragon Ages 2?

Some had casting time, wich was in effect the same as a cooldown. In some games you could also OD on healing potionshealth packs. On normal difficulty.

Yeh you have me there, I did like casting time being a factor, but thats different that a 30 second cooldown, unless you are talking about crazy long casting times that essentially would be only useful outside of combat and nullified by the fact everyone heals out of combat.

Anyways I edited above, I think reducing timers is a better way to balacne diff than reduce damage taken and make it easier to kill bad guys.

I am more in favor of healing potions not working instantly. To be fair you do have to swallow the stuff, and it also has to get into your system.

You mean like Diablo III potions that heal you pretty fast but take time to give you the full heal? I have np with that.

Mostly I want to revisit the difficulty settings having more to do with healing mechanics. I'm going to stick with this line of thought. I dislike the diff levels of today just being less damage taken and bad guys have less health.

I still want even newbie players to have to use a heal spell, even if they suck at playin the game, they can use the heal spell more often. I want them to use the basic mechanics of the game to overcome challenges, not remove the need to heal your party or yourself. Even with being able to cast heal spells more often at easier setting, they will maybe learn if they cast resist fire, or wear resist fire armor, they will have to cast heal less often vs a dragon.

But if you make the game so easy on easy setting, that the player doesn't have to use any of those spells or buffs, they end up finding combat boring and meaningless button clicking. It is a self fullfilling prophesy, why should I use the stupid spells, or even try to figure out this encounter? Why is there combat encounters at all, I can win them so easily?

Ease them into using proper spells and planning, but don't remove the need to plan, just make it easier. Train the players to learn the genre they are playing, require them to learn the basics of a party rpg system, just be more forgiving, don't remove all need to play the game as a party based rpg.

[In Exile]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Placing restrictions on the player's resources (potion, gold, healer, or otherwise) is pretty much by definition a way to make fights harder. Though arguably not the best way.

But generally I agree with you.  I'm happy playing on harder difficulties, but if I just wanna replay a quest's dialogue or redo a choice, going through all that combat is just a slog.

To be fair, they tried to respond to the criticisms of potion spam. But then it turned out people like to spam potions.

[Celene II]

Perhaps it has nothing to do with being easy or hard but making some part of DA3 more like DAO then DA2.

DAO was a masterpiece. DA2 was a piece of something.

I know they dont want to move toward DAO that much but they can remove one of the more annoying changes by putting DA2 healing in nightmare and hard and DAO healing in casual and normal.

[Orian Tabris]

Maybe the cooldown on Normal should be half the time on Hard or Nightmare, and for Casual, there is no cooldown?

[hexaligned]

Yeah, no. The mechanic was broken, regardless of the difficulty setting. If they are going to do that they might as well just enable God mode, for casual mode, and remove potions all together.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Celene II wrote...
I know they dont want to move toward DAO that much but they can remove one of the more annoying changes by putting DA2 healing in nightmare and hard and DAO healing in casual and normal.

It's considerably more complicated than that.  Healing boils down to how you manage a combat resource (health).  That's an outgrowth of the combat system itself.  You can't just mix and match healing without considering the underlying combat mechanics to some degree.

DA2 had more restricted healing because your health didn't take the beating that it did in DA:O.  You didn't NEED to be able to spam potions and heal spells to survive a standard fight on Normal.  

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

Gaming now casts a considerably wider net.  Not everything about older RPGs is gold, and not everyone has the time to redo difficult fights over and over again.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:15 .

[Rawgrim]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Celene II wrote...
I know they dont want to move toward DAO that much but they can remove one of the more annoying changes by putting DA2 healing in nightmare and hard and DAO healing in casual and normal.

It's considerably more complicated than that.  Healing boils down to how you manage a combat resource (health).  That's an outgrowth of the combat system itself.  You can't just mix and match healing without considering the underlying combat mechanics to some degree.

DA2 had more restricted healing because your health didn't take the beating that it did in DA:O.  You didn't NEED to be able to spam potions and heal spells to survive a standard fight on Normal.  

Rawgrim wrote...

So basically everything that was on normal difficulty in older rpgs, is now considered to be too hard, and should only be included in Nightmare mode.

Gaming now casts a considerably wider net.  Not everything about older RPGs is gold, and not everyone has the time to redo difficult fights over and over again.

Exactly. This means people who like games to be somewhat challenging, will have to play on Nightmare difficulty, in order to get any sort of challenge from a game. And nightmare difficulty is pretty much an over the top cheese fest in most areas. So what those people would have to do is either breeze through the game on a lower difficulty, getting zero challenge out of it, or they would have to play on nightmare, since any other difficulty has been gimped to cater to the "casual" crowd.

[Kidd]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Placing restrictions on the player's resources (potion, gold, healer, or otherwise) is pretty much by definition a way to make fights harder.

Definitely. It's why the first Metroid game gave you tons of limitations to begin with which were removed the further you got into the game. In the beginning your shots would fade after a meter or two of travel, but upon acquiring the Long Beam you could cover the entire length of the screen with bullets. The Screw Attack removes the limitation where the game engine only allows you to input a jump off the ground; you can now jump no matter what you're doing which essentially means you can jump within jumps, indefinitely.

Never mind me, I'm going down nostalgia lane and thinking about game design.

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 11 décembre 2012 - 01:32 .