73 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

 Maybe the worst thing for me about DA2 was that all your companions were set as a perticular roll and you could not change that.  So do you hate Anders?  To bad if you want a healer you are useing him or doing it yourself.  You can have them with their horrible "iconic" looks just let us tweek their skills and battle rolls so we can use who we want.

[DragonAgeLegend]

You can change the skills for any characters to be what you want them to be in DA2 already. If you mean by the specializations then that's a different story and I agree with you. Having our companions only be allowed one specialization on something we may not even want them to be is quite restrictive to the player. Hopefully this will be more like Origins, allowing 'you' to choose two from four or five different spec's.

Modifié par wesam987, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

Role*


But I agree.  I also think there should be ways of filling roles as unconventional classes.  Why is mage the only healer, or warrior the only tank.  Mages could use magic skills to be tanks (like arcane warrior in DAO) and for healing, maybe something like potion bombs a rogue can drop on allies for various effects.  This would give us far more diverse options. 

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:57 .

[Liamv2]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Role*

Don't be that guy

[Doctoglethorpe]

Liamv2 wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Role*

Don't be that guy

I'm usually not, but when its done repeatedly and with emphasis somebody has to. 

[Liamv2]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Role*

Don't be that guy

I'm usually not, but when its done repeatedly and with emphasis somebody has to. 

Ah like rouge

Modifié par Liamv2, 10 décembre 2012 - 12:59 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Dragon Age is supposed to have strong, iconic individuals as companions. Not playthings to change at will. The laws of the universe and the core essence of what your companions are shouldn't revolve around you.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Liamv2 wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Role*

Don't be that guy

I'm usually not, but when its done repeatedly and with emphasis somebody has to. 

Ah like rouge

Apparently you don't understand those words then, im sorry. 

[Forst1999]

I disagree. A companion's combat style is a part of it's character in my opinion. You should be able to approach different needs in different ways, but I think DAII already did that. You didn't necessarily need a healer, just manage threat and have the right potions ready. (If things go badly, Anders usually is the first to go down anyway...). You don't even need a tank, just use rogues to goad enemies to someone who can take a few hits.
If you don't play on Nightmare, you CAN use who you want at any time (some people probably can do so even on Nightmare). And Nightmare restricting you somewhat is right, it should be about optimal builds.

[Navasha]

That is the nice thing about mods. I had a mod that gave the spirit healer tree to Merrill. Couldn't stand Anders.

[Fredward]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. Roll.

I totally pictured Aveline whimsically cartwheeling through a battle while the OP would have preferred if she tucked and rolled. XD

[Pedrak]

The Anders=healer is the only major offender I can think of, especially because of the situation arising in the last act of the game, where the decision to get rid of him can be... influenced... by his important role. Although playing on normal everything was so stupidly easy that you can mow down enemies without bothering too much about strategies.

As for the rest, classes should have a degree of flexibility, but it's not like everyone should be a jack-of-all-trades. Tanking mages in DAO with the Arcane Warrior were cool, but horribily unbalanced.

I like my party members as chess pieces, each one with his strengths, weaknesses and a certain role. If you hate someone and yet really need him for party balance, the friendship/rivalry system allows to treat him badly without in-game disadvantages.

Modifié par Pedrak, 10 décembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[Kidd]

But their specialisation leads to characterisation. Merrill is a blood mage, because that's simply what she is. Fenris similarly have very strong ties to his specialisation. Without set class choices, we couldn't have had the scenes about Aveline's shield, etc.

As long as you play on something other than Nightmare, this isn't really a problem any way.

[The Elder King]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

But their specialisation leads to characterisation. Merrill is a blood mage, because that's simply what she is. Fenris similarly have very strong ties to his specialisation. Without set class choices, we couldn't have had the scenes about Aveline's shield, etc.

As long as you play on something other than Nightmare, this isn't really a problem any way.

The main problem is that Merill didn't even have access to the normal healing magic, and this is pretty idiotic. Not only because almost surely Merill knows some healing magics (Marethari knows it, and I don't see why Marethari wouldn't have thaugh Merill), but because there's no reason for a mage to be prevented to learn healing magics, of the creation school. The same goes for Anders and Bethany. While I didn't like it much for the other companions, for the mages I think it's worse.
And Merrill's lack of the creation tree isn't related to set class choices. While I didn't like much the fact that companions have set weapon choice, I could understand the reason (though I think that it worked more for Varric and Isabela than the other companions) there's no reason for mages to have restrictions in one of the basic schools of magic. Her blood mage spec will always be shown in cutscene, having access to the creaton school wouldn't prevent her to use blood magic in cutscene.

Modifié par hhh89, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:03 .

[vortex216]

What I didn't like about DA2 is your companions did not have 2 specs. though you could. And most of your comapnions specs. were just rip-offs of original ones. Isabela- duelist, Merill- blood mage, Anders- spirit healer. Sure, it reflects of their personality or lifestyle and makes them unique, but I like the Origins way better.

Modifié par vortex216, 10 décembre 2012 - 02:30 .

[Trolldrool]

I liked how in Origins they gave the companions pre-set abilities that already revolved around a certain skill tree to give you an indication of where they belonged (Oghren and Sten on two-handed and Alistair on 1-hand and shield), but you could still change it. Or give Wynne the blood magic specialization for the one time constitution buff.

[In Exile]

Navasha wrote...

That is the nice thing about mods. I had a mod that gave the spirit healer tree to Merrill. Couldn't stand Anders.

Once you use mods to break the hardwired restriction, you realize just how easy DA2 is and how much of the difficulty comes from the nerfed classes.

[esper]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

But their specialisation leads to characterisation. Merrill is a blood mage, because that's simply what she is. Fenris similarly have very strong ties to his specialisation. Without set class choices, we couldn't have had the scenes about Aveline's shield, etc.

As long as you play on something other than Nightmare, this isn't really a problem any way.

It isn't a problem on nightmare either.

[ShaggyWolf]

Pedrak wrote...

I like my party members as chess pieces, each one with his strengths, weaknesses and a certain role.

I really like this line and completely agree with it. It's part of the reason why I think giving the protagonist only one specialization to choose from in DA3 is a good idea.

That aside, I prefer the way companions are set up in DA:2, with iconic appearances and specific combat styles.

I do like the concept art they shared with us a while ago though, where equipment does change a companion's appearance but it always remains centered around their iconic look. If they can pull that off I'll be thrilled, but I wouldn't mind at all if they did a repeat of DA2's appearance/talent system for companions, because it was fine imo.

[Kidd]

hhh89 wrote...

The main problem is that Merill didn't even have access to the normal healing magic, and this is pretty idiotic. Not only because almost surely Merill knows some healing magics (Marethari knows it, and I don't see why Marethari wouldn't have thaugh Merill), but because there's no reason for a mage to be prevented to learn healing magics, of the creation school. The same goes for Anders and Bethany. While I didn't like it much for the other companions, for the mages I think it's worse.

This is true for all characters though. Bethany doesn't have access to the primal tree, Anders can't use entropy, Fenris can't use sword and shield etc. But I see your point that limiting magic can feel a tad less easy to explain away since they all use staves in the end.

Must admit it's never bothered me in the slightest and has worked to reinforce the idea that they're different, though. While DAO pretty much requires you to use a dedicated healer, that is definitely not true in DA2.

[hexaligned]

I make some allowances seeing as how these are (mass marketed) video games, and by their nature limit the tools the writers have available to introduce and define characters. (No POV scenes, no internal monologues, etc.) , however... There comes a point, and for me that point was DA2, where defining characters by limiting (already bare bone) game mechanics, just starts to smack of bad writing. Or maybe just rushed development in general. It makes the characters feel less like "real" people, and more like cliche cartoon characters.
If an aspect of a characters personality isn't important enough to establish and flesh out using the story telling mechanics (dialogue/cut scenes/quests), then leave it out. Or at least ADD things to the game mechanics to represent their personality (if you really have to), rather than cutting stuff out. For example, rather than limiting a character to only one fighting style or role, give them significant advantages when using that style, but don't just remove all other options from them (and me), just because you want to highlight that they are exceptionally good at one thing, or weak at another.

Modifié par relhart, 10 décembre 2012 - 04:52 .

[Phate Phoenix]

If we can't add specializations like in DAO, then perhaps simply adding more characters would be nice? At the very least, there needs to be more than one healer and tank (besides the main character), or the ability to change another character enough to make due. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.

[BouncyFrag]

This was a bad 'feature' in DA2. It was a rushed game and I doubt the 'intent' was to make the characters better.

[Maria Caliban]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

This is true for all characters though. Bethany doesn't have access to the primal tree, Anders can't use entropy, Fenris can't use sword and shield etc.

Yes, but 'primal damage' isn't a combat role.

Combat roles:
Dealing lots of damage
Absorbing/mitigating lots of damage
Healing damage
Crowd Control

A fighter in DA - Hawke, Fenris, or Aveline - can all absorb damage because they have high armor, resistances, and HP. Using a two-handed Fenris as a tank isn't optimal, but it can still be done.

Heck, in a pinch, I've had Merril tank.

All of the companions have options for damage dealing, and IIRC, all of them have a bit of CC.

After Act I, *only one companion can heal.* It's a combat role that not a single other companion can fulfill even at the most basic of levels.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 décembre 2012 - 05:28 .