73 réponses à ce sujet

[Giltspur]

Generally speaking, I think all mages should be able to heal and do damage and that all warriors should be able to tank and do damage.  If they achieve those things in different ways (like tanking with a two-handed sword and parries for one companion versus tanking with sword, shield and blocking for a different companion), that's fine.  But I'd like any warrior to fill the warrior roles and any mage fill the mage roles.

Modifié par Giltspur, 10 décembre 2012 - 08:31 .

[Auintus]

Giltspur wrote...

Generally speaking, I think all mages should be able to heal and do damage and that all warriors should be able to tank and do damage.  If they achieve those things in different ways (like tanking with a two-handed sword and parries for one companion versus tanking with sword, shield and blocking for a different companion), that's fine.  But I'd like any warrior to fill the warrior roles and any mage fill the mage roles.

I can agree with that. One thing I think they did wrong was preventing Merril from using the creation tree. If she can heal, but Anders is better because Spirit Healer, then you have a balanced mix of customization and personality in a build.

[In Exile]

Giltspur wrote...

Generally speaking, I think all mages should be able to heal and do damage and that all warriors should be able to tank and do damage.  If they achieve those things in different ways (like tanking with a two-handed sword and parries for one companion versus tanking with sword, shield and blocking for a different companion), that's fine.  But I'd like any warrior to fill the warrior roles and any mage fill the mage roles.

I personally think games shouldn't have healing, NPCs/enemies should have similar health pools that regenerate, and this whole tank/DPS/AOE/heal mechanic should die like D&D mechanics did. 

[Face of Evil]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Kaiser or poppy seed?

Cinnamon Rolls. They stick to the side of your companion's head changing their role to princess.

Mmmm, delicious cinnamon battle rolls.

Has anyone tried swiss rolls? I hear those are pretty good.

I wonder what kind of rolls they have in Orlais? Sugar-sweet, no doubt.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 10 décembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[nightscrawl]

esper wrote...

Potions and mythral favour is a lot more effective than Anders. I think my Hawke was living on restoration potions at one point.

Forget about healing. Haste and Heroic Aura are the reasons to keep Anders around if you're not a mage. Yay buffs!

Helena Tylena wrote...

Personally, I like there to be less focus on rigid party roles of tank/damage/healer(/crowd control). Too WoW-y for my tastes.

Even though I play WoW I agree with this. It just doesn't seem necessary in a game like this. Of course on lower difficulties it's not as dire that you have a healer or a tank. I play on normal and I never use Aveline, but I do use Anders for buffs and healing on some fights.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 10 décembre 2012 - 09:06 .

[LinksOcarina]

nightscrawl wrote...

esper wrote...

Potions and mythral favour is a lot more effective than Anders. I think my Hawke was living on restoration potions at one point.

Forget about healing. Haste and Heroic Aura are the reasons to keep Anders around if you're not a mage. Yay buffs!

Helena Tylena wrote...

Personally, I like there to be less focus on rigid party roles of tank/damage/healer(/crowd control). Too WoW-y for my tastes.

Even though I play WoW I agree with this. It just doesn't seem necessary in a game like this. Of course on lower difficulties it's not as dire that you have a healer or a tank. I play on normal and I never use Aveline, but I do use Anders for buffs and healing on some fights.

but don't you know that rigid party class stuff is what grognards want? Anders needs to be the healer while Aveline is the tank, it all makes sense based on their builds.

Although I tend to make Anders an attack mage with both Spirit and Elemental Magic, while Aveline can be a massive damage dealer if you ignore parts of her Guardian tree and focus on Vanguard and Warmonger with Sword and Shield.

In all honesty, while the roles are defined, you can still play around with them to suit different needs other than what their specializations reflect, and they are still very effective because how flexible the level up system and equipment section are.

I kind of look at it this way; Anders, for example, is the best healer in the game, but he doesn't have to use healing at all if you choose to do it. You can focus on attack or crowd control instead and never touch, or respec, his healing abilities. And he won't be weak because of it. This is unlike say Origins, where respecing is impossible and everyone is firmly rigid in their roles regardless of what you choose. 

[labargegrrrl]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Kaiser or poppy seed?

Cinnamon Rolls. They stick to the side of your companion's head changing their role to princess.

i'd propose marriage to you for that, except that nowadays, it would make your companions into DISNEY princesses.

 

[Huntress]

JasonPogo wrote...

 Maybe the worst thing for me about DA2 was that all your companions were set as a perticular roll and you could not change that.  So do you hate Anders?  To bad if you want a healer you are useing him or doing it yourself.  You can have them with their horrible "iconic" looks just let us tweek their skills and battle rolls so we can use who we want.

I choose a companion because of their rolls, exemple the hero is a rogue then I need someone with a shield to stop a boss from killing the mage while the rogue hack at the minions from behind, thats what rogues do. if  the hero is a mage and didn't bring someone capable of holding many mobs... then, the mage should kiss his or her @^$$ goodbye and the player shouldn't Btch about why s/he couldn't win the fight without a warrior or rogue in the group.

Now if you say The main character as a rogue only using daggers or as warriors not able to duel wield or use bows to pull mobs away from the caster then i totally agree with you, is just dumb.

[Brodoteau]

In general, I think all companions (and enemies) should have the abilities and bases as you do like DAO. Then if you want to make the character more "iconic" than you can give them a special ability based on thier character.

Bioware has already done this, Minsc, one the greatest characters they have ever created, was a ranger (though you wouldn't think it) but had a special berseker power based on his background. To balance this out, as well, they put Boo in a slot so Minsc could not equip as much as another character. Boo, though really a limitation (I know, I know, I love Boo but from a gameplay perspective it was true) also became essential to who Minsc was as a character and helped to flesh him out. So I think there are ways to make characters iconic, but make sure that everyone plays bye the same rules.

So why couldn't Anders play as a regular mage specialization, but also have special "Justice" or healing powers that fit his character.

[LinksOcarina]

Brodoteau wrote...

In general, I think all companions (and enemies) should have the abilities and bases as you do like DAO. Then if you want to make the character more "iconic" than you can give them a special ability based on thier character.

Bioware has already done this, Minsc, one the greatest characters they have ever created, was a ranger (though you wouldn't think it) but had a special berseker power based on his background. To balance this out, as well, they put Boo in a slot so Minsc could not equip as much as another character. Boo, though really a limitation (I know, I know, I love Boo but from a gameplay perspective it was true) also became essential to who Minsc was as a character and helped to flesh him out. So I think there are ways to make characters iconic, but make sure that everyone plays bye the same rules.

So why couldn't Anders play as a regular mage specialization, but also have special "Justice" or healing powers that fit his character.

He did though, it was the Vengeance specailization.

It basically can be used pure defensively or pure offensively. So even if Anders has a knack for being the cleric, he doesn't have to be built like one. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:15 .

[Brodoteau]

@LinksOcarina, You've missed the point of my post. I know he had the special Justice powers, I don't object to companions having special powers. That's a good way to drive home the characterization. But companions should also be able to have the same specializations as Hawke. I want both -- like Minsc (see above).

[Wynne]

Liamv2 wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Role*

Don't be that guy

That guy who tries to help the OP not confuse the hell out of people?

Seriously, my head hurts. Role means something completely different from roll, and yes, there is such a thing as a combat roll so there is plenty of room for confusion. There's a reason why they're spelled differently. Use it. And don't be that guy who complains about people helping others be clear when they post.

Modifié par Wynne, 11 décembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[LinksOcarina]

Brodoteau wrote...

@LinksOcarina, You've missed the point of my post. I know he had the special Justice powers, I don't object to companions having special powers. That's a good way to drive home the characterization. But companions should also be able to have the same specializations as Hawke. I want both -- like Minsc (see above).

See I disagree. Mainly because the specializations Hawke had were unique enough for Hawke to learn, yet generic enough to cover several bases for a character build. Giving them to the companions would lose their utility to being hawke specific, and it would depower Hawke as a character then. 

[Brodoteau]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Brodoteau wrote...

@LinksOcarina, You've missed the point of my post. I know he had the special Justice powers, I don't object to companions having special powers. That's a good way to drive home the characterization. But companions should also be able to have the same specializations as Hawke. I want both -- like Minsc (see above).

See I disagree. Mainly because the specializations Hawke had were unique enough for Hawke to learn, yet generic enough to cover several bases for a character build. Giving them to the companions would lose their utility to being hawke specific, and it would depower Hawke as a character then. 

I see your point, but I think there is an opportunity here to make abilities help character development.  After all, if what they wear is important enough to preserve (to help build an identity) than what they do (or able to do) should help with this.  Wynne in DAO was a generic mage build that the player could fiddle with (even doing things like make Wynne a blood mage; which would be out of character) but she had the special "spirit form power' (or whatever it was called) that was an extra and helped to develop the character.

If you are worried about "Player specific" abilities this again can be remedied as they did in BG2 with the Bhaalspawn powers.  So even though you were a generic paladin or mage or whatever, you also had extra abilities that helped to develop your character. 

[nightscrawl]

LinksOcarina wrote...

You can focus on attack or crowd control instead and never touch, or respec, his healing abilities. And he won't be weak because of it. This is unlike say Origins, where respecing is impossible and everyone is firmly rigid in their roles regardless of what you choose.

While I love the Black Emporium to death for those respec potions, and I use a respec mod in DAO, not everyone bought the BE DLC, or pre-ordered the game to get it.

When I respec followers it's not that I want to chang their role, I usually do that because at early levels I want them to have certain points put in and to build them on a specific path. So even if I get those same skills that were default later on, I still prefer to respec.

It's pretty annoying in DAO without a mod as well, especially when you get all those points in the fade. I don't want my mage to have 24 cunning, 17 strength, etc; I also get to free up the skill point used for herbalism and just mooch off Morrigan's herbalism instead.

[In Exile]

Brodoteau wrote...

@LinksOcarina, You've missed the point of my post. I know he had the special Justice powers, I don't object to companions having special powers. That's a good way to drive home the characterization. But companions should also be able to have the same specializations as Hawke. I want both -- like Minsc (see above).

I've always hated when the PC gets nothing special, but somehow all the companions have a super special secret awesome power. In DA:O I was fine with the PC having nothing and learning from the companions (or for plot reasons). That worked. And DA2 people had unique specializations, so that was cool too (and Hawke would get his own flavour on some of them, plus while also being able to be his own person).

[In Exile]

nightscrawl wrote...
It's pretty annoying in DAO without a mod as well, especially when you get all those points in the fade. I don't want my mage to have 24 cunning, 17 strength, etc; I also get to free up the skill point used for herbalism and just mooch off Morrigan's herbalism instead.

The useless waste of slots in tactics always bothered me, since I only used tactics for very basic commands like heal. But respect makes DA:O too easy, because of how overpowered mages are. You literally have to try and fail at the game.

DA2 is also like that, but generally the trying to fail comes via not picking a rogue PC .

[mutombomania]

did one DAO playthrough with a full set of warriors and another with 3 mages and 1 archer.
a lot of fun, even on nightmare.
really changed the flow of combat and kept me interested to try something new.
cant say that about DA2. The way friendly fire works, you were limited to only a few valid group and skill combinations.
the downside is, that DAO nightmare was incredibly easy with good groups, while DA2 Nightmare felt a bit more challenging, because a bad group setup could make it very hard.

i guess its hard to find the perfect solution, where the fights are challenging, but still manageable with all sorts of playstyles.

[philippe willaume]

for me it is more important that the char and the companion offers more tactical/stratgical/way of playing that the monolithic one trick DA:2 pony .

phil

[Pelle6666]

Ask the developers instead of God. I think they can do more about the matter.

[Dabrikishaw]

Trolldrool wrote...

I liked how in Origins they gave the companions pre-set abilities that already revolved around a certain skill tree to give you an indication of where they belonged (Oghren and Sten on two-handed and Alistair on 1-hand and shield), but you could still change it. Or give Wynne the blood magic specialization for the one time constitution buff.

Very true.

Alistair dual-wielding Veshailes, Sten using Keening Blade and Fadewall, Oghren as an archer, Morigan and Leliana wearing Massive Armor. Origins flexible party members were great, and one of several things I missed in Dragon Age 2.

[KiwiQuiche]

Darn, thought this was gonna be about a thread on letting companions do combat rolls.

At least re-read your threads before posting, OP.