65 réponses à ce sujet

[VelvetV]

I had so  many disconnected questions lately that  I decided to create a new topic.They will probably keep coming. If anybody else has a question and feels like opening a separate topic for it is an overkilll, post it here, too.

Current questions:

1) I read in an NPC guide that unlike BG1 characters that are dual-classed, BG2 characters suffer from dual-classing. So a single class character may reach 17-20, but dual-class 13-14. Is it true? Sounds awful to me, considering that most NPCs are dual-classed.

2) A question connected to the first one: will it hurt the game if you use NPCs you like (like Nalia) instead of strong ones (like Korgan)? I know some people play without reloads or solo, but I'm asking about ordinary mortals who have to reload at every turn. So far my party is me (pure mage), Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo, Nalia and  Anomen. I really like Minsc and Nalia and keeping Anomen for obvious reasons. Never played Jaheira in BG2, but she got to me with her tragedy at the beginning. Still she could be exchanged for maybe Cernd? As well as Yoshimo, although other thieves are horrible compared to him. Please suggest how to make a better party.

3) Skeleton Warriors, what do you do with them? So far I've only been able to beat them by conjuring a couple of Lesser Earth Elementals to distract them why the rest of the party pummeled them. But my party can't beat them on their own, they kill even Minsc in a matter of few hits.

4) My mage has more hitpoints than anybody else, it's really ridiculous. Could be a glitch after using Vampiric Touch while unpatched. She can go beyond current hitpoints and they disappear in a while, so these are her base hitpoints, but perhaps in the beginning there was a glitch. How can I calculate her real hitpoints to edit her?

Modifié par VelvetV, 10 décembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Gate70]

1 That sounds like SoA with a 2.95m xp cap, ToB raises it to 8m. In your stated party only your mage and Yoshimo could dual class. It's usually best dualling to a mage so I wouldn't recommend it for your mage. Yoshimo is fairly effective with bow and suffices with a katana so I don't usually bother dualling him.

2 You may find some battles tougher but your party should be fine. Nalia is a competent caster and magic will often help as much as someone like Korgan. I usually find Minsc a bit fragile so would tend to stick Anomen at the pointy-end with Minsc right behind him.

3 Anomen could turn undead, insta-chunk if high enough level (table linked) skeleton warriors are something like 9HD so at turning level 10-11 (shown on record screen) Anomen has a 50% chance and at turning level 14 he's highly likely to destroy them. Or purchase Azuredge, or retrieve the mace of disruption. (They should also struggle to hit Minsc or Anomen if decently equipped and buffed). Turn undead is often overlooked but using sanctuary > turn in the midst of a group of vampires can be far quicker and safer than a full party battle.
http://www.planetbal...rnundead.shtml' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/tables/turnundead.shtml

4 If you play on core difficulty or above the hitpoints per level are random. If your mage has summoned a familiar she will have gained additional hit points. What level is she and with what constitution, someone will probably advise a suitable range of hit points.

[goblinsly1]

1) They lose a few levels offcourse, otherwise it would be totaly unbalanced ( if it isnt already ). But if you aggregate classes from both level, it will be the same level if not more as single character. Dont worry about it because there is enough experience in bg2 and the expansion. With expansion, a character dualed at level 9 can easily each 24+ even in a full party. And level after 20 dont really make such a huge difference.

2) What i am about to say is my experience, since i always use difficulty enhancing mods like Tactics, Asscension and SCS2, this might be a bit different for unmodded game. Korgan is not really strong compared to Nalia. 1 on 1 she can easily kill 5 Korgans and in battle she can easily be kept alive, while Korgan cant. He has very little means to protect himself from magic and in melee even with 85% resistance to melee, he can be overcome quickly ( while nalia uses 1 protection from magic weapons and is safe for a couple of rounds ). Pick the character you like because of roleplaying reasons, the game without mods is easy with any character. Jaheira is very usefull character and a really strong character. Because of her iron skins she will survive longer in battle even though she has probably half the health as korgan. I wouldnt recommend exchanging her to Cernd..

3) That is what summons are for. If you cant kill something on their own, you call for help. Afterall that is why BG2 is fun, wouldnt be fun if you could kill everything with a push of a button. Skeleton Warriors are magic resistant soo anti undead spells dont do that much against them. You might want to look around for weapons that do extra damage to undead, summon some help, what you can also do is use a mage, cast mirror image and stoneskin and then tank his hits while your characters melee him. When your mage gets hit, quickly run away.

4) Here i will let someone else answer. All i can say for now is tell us levels of your characters and their hitpoints, for instance level of Minsc and your protagonist, their levels and their hp, that way it will be easier to figure out what is wrong.

[VelvetV]

1) That's nice, so with ToB there shouldn't be a problem. In that case, at which level is it best to depart to the Watcher's Keep for the additional XP?

2) About the party. I can't choose between Keldorn and Jaheira now. What about the story, does Jaheira have more lines and is more woven into the story than Keldorn? Is Keldorn less developed? I would choose her if that's the case.

3) Turning undead didn't work for me with Skeleton Warriors, but maybe I was unaccustomed to using it. It worked with lesser undead, though. I found it really funny, basically all undead kept running away! My fighters would give them chase, lead them back, hit a bit and the undead would run away again. Amusing, and with turning the party would never be overwhelmed.

I don't like summons because I find it criminal to summon creatures just to have them killed. Maybe they're supposed to be "ghosts", but I still feel like my party is a party of murderers who use meatshields... And I don't think they're ghosts, otherwise it would make no sense for a mage to "duel" a lesser earth elemental for mental dominance upon summoning it! That makes me sad, the poor chap is fighting for freedom.

Well, in the game you're also supposed to steal a lot, too, which makes it difficult to roleplay a decent party (e.g. you're supposed to steal the teleport stone from the altar in Merkath's house, even if you didn't attack him for it).

4) My pure mage char has 101 hitpoints at level 11, and indeed I forgot that she uses an item that adds 10% to hitpoints. So her hitpoints should be 91. But that's still on par with Anomen and Kelgorn and Minsc (99-95-92), who're 11-9-10 levels. Her constitution is 17.

Modifié par VelvetV, 11 décembre 2012 - 12:09 .

[goblinsly1]

It would be best to visit it when you start tob...up to you really. I usualy go somewhere in the middle of tob but mostly for roleplaying reasons.

I would pick jaheira but that is just me. They are both good characters. Keldorn is really awesome with his dispel which isnt nerfed like it is with SCS2 mod. He is a good warrior, has plenty of good abilities and some cleric spells also. He can also wear one of the best weapons in the game.
Jaheira on the other hand has some of the best spells in game ( druid pool ), gets both druid and fighter high level abilities, she is simply awesome. Bad thing would be a bit low health and weapon restrictions. I like to keep her around.

[Grond0]

VelvetV wrote...
4) My pure mage char has 101 hitpoints at level 11, and indeed I forgot that she uses an item that adds 10% to hitpoints. So her hitpoints should be 91. But that's still on par with Anomen and Kelgorn and Minsc (99-95-92), who're 11-9-10 levels. Her constitution is 17.

You do sometimes get glitches with HPs in the unmodded game when characters are imported from BG1.  Your level 11 mage should have the following range of HPs.
Level 1 = 4 + 2 con bonus
Levels 2-10 = 9-36 +18 con bonus (1-4 HPs basic per level)
Level 11 = 1
Familiar = 12 (depends on alignment, but most familiars have 24 HPs and you get 50% of theirs)
Total = 46-73

So if you want a max HPs character they should have 73.  If you want random you can just roll some d4s yourself.  Alternatively you could start a new game with a mage and use cluaconsole to add XP to get them to level 11 and accept whatever HPs they get (adjusting for familiar).

[ussnorway]

AFAIA A single class Wizard with 17 con should get a D4 and {2 for con} per level until level 11. That's a max of 66 hit points but only adds 1 point after that... a familiar would add extra points as well.

Only fighters get extra points for con of more than 16 and Mages have one extra level of dice over what a Fighter gets i.e. 11 instead of 10 but Grond0 is basically correct.

[morbidest2]

VelvetV wrote...

1) That's nice, so with ToB there shouldn't be a problem. In that case, at which level is it best to depart to the Watcher's Keep for the additional XP?

2) About the party. I can't choose between Keldorn and Jaheira now. What about the story, does Jaheira have more lines and is more woven into the story than Keldorn? Is Keldorn less developed? I would choose her if that's the case.

I find that an SoA party can handle the first 2 levels of Watchers Keep before going to Suldanesselar, and the toughening up there  does make Chapter 6 a lot easier. And there is some useful loot to be had there.

I think that Jaheira (and Viconia) have the best NPC story lines, so I keep them instead of Keldorn. Also in ToB you will encounter a "new" NPC who is the best master-at-arms in the game, so a multi ability character like Jah has an edge over an almost pure fighter like Keldorn for being part of your core party.

[Gate70]

I'm probably wrong on the levels, but at some point Anomen will pop most undead rather than scaring them away.

[ussnorway]

'Turn' works by levels... IME at SEVEN levels above the undead Anomen will pop them and Viconia will take control of them.

[Grond0]

ussnorway wrote...

AFAIA A single class Wizard with 17 con should get a D4 and {2 for con} per level until level 11. That's a max of 66 hit points but only adds 1 point after that... a familiar would add extra points as well.

Only fighters get extra points for con of more than 16 and Mages have one extra level of dice over what a Fighter gets i.e. 11 instead of 10 but Grond0 is basically correct.

Just to clarify fighters get only 9 hit dice (d10) and mages 10 (d4).  The original poster might be interested in looking at a set of tables such as http://playithardcor...gression_Charts.  These show not only hit dice by level, but other useful information such as saving throws and the effect of weapon proficiencies (the correct effects, not the incorrect information in the manual and the in-game screens).
 

[goblinsly1]

When summons are described, why does it always say 9 HD monster, or 16 HD monster ? It serves no purpuse since they have a fixed amount of hp anyway ( if there was a random factor everytime you summon a 9HD monster meaning 9 dices would roll and decide how much hp he has.. )..its just confusing. 9HD fire elemental has about 90hp, around there. Soo what, 9x D10 sided dice that always scored 10?

I will be playing with SCS2. Do u think genies and efreeties get too powerfull with instant cast of spells ? Since script will think its installed, its prolly good to install it...but isnt it too powerfull ?

Lets talk a bit about summons, which ones you like, which ones you use. For instance, when i first played it, i was amazed at how strong Aerial servant was. Do you like him better then fire elementals or air elementals ? What in the world would be an argument to use invisible stalker due to his low hp, bad ac, bad thaco, at least compared to aerial servant ?
What about poison attack of spiders and wyvern ? How often does it poison ? Is there a chance on every hit, is there a saving throw ? How long does the poison last, how much damage does it do ? What about all those demon summons, any of them remotely usefull ? I think they are kind of improved with SCS2...i hope they arent too powerfull...

[ussnorway]

My defensive pets;

Hakeashar can’t fight for guano but they happily stand inside an AOE assault that would turn other summons/ characters into dust.

All Animals are prone to fear attacks but Skellies will shrug them off along with other magic... a ‘Magic Missile’ will do some damage but don’t expect any miracles.

The Nymph = ‘Domination’ and ‘Hold’ will stop Fighters in their tracks while also adding secondary buffs to your party... you get the most out of these by adding one into mobs of other animals.

Deva = lots of AOE spells but the extra heals/buffs are why you bring him out to play.

My attacking pets;

Vampires = truly deadly... Very few things you encounter in this game will have defensive strategies against level drain!

Skellies = not much on their own but have a Cleric buff them with ‘Strength of One’/ ‘Defensive Harmony’ and they win battles for you... especially if you can stun the target (see Nymph).

High damage but low armour targets eg, mages & fire giants = poison attack... a spider can lock down a fire giant with poisons and slowly kill him without taking any damage.

Elementals; Earth = an AOE attack and good armour (tank), Fire = good against cloakers (Genies and Efreeties), Air = basic DPS.

Fallen Deva = unlike her goody two shoes brother, this bad girl can hold her own in a melee fight... The ‘Dispel’ helps against targets that like to buff up.

[goblinsly1]

Hmm not sure i understand everything.
Which do you prefer, deva or fallen deva ? How about planetar vs fallen planetar ? Deva vs planetar ?
Vampires....i am not sure how did you get a vampire ?
Defensive harmony only adds -2 ac....Strength of one....this lifts their strength but how much thaco does it add ( subtract ) ?
Now i am not sure we are talking about the same game. Spider against fire giant ? I think on average sword spider will die in 2 hits from a fire giant...even 5 spiders vs 1 fire giant, i wouldnt bet on them and that is without SCS2..or maybe i am missing something ?
Elementals.....why is fire good against cloakers ? Earth elemental, AOE atack, what does that mean ?
Why can fallen deva hold on her own unlike dela ? I think jaheira as neutral can pick fallen deva...aerie can pick both planetar/fallen planetar and deva/fallen deva. I am thinking whether i should pick fallen planetar ( since i will have 2 other chars have planetar spell )...variety is good but is there anything at all that fallen planetar is better in then planetar...

Wyvern.....i will have to test this one a bit. Maybe massed with haste....i know they die fast which means they have to be used as "snipers", like find a weak mage or priest, poison him.....this will disrupt his spells, do lots of damage etc.

[ussnorway]

goblinsly1 wrote...

Hmm not sure i understand everything.
Which do you prefer, deva or fallen deva ? How about planetar vs fallen planetar ? Deva vs planetar ?
Vampires....i am not sure how did you get a vampire ?
Defensive harmony only adds -2 ac....Strength of one....this lifts their strength but how much thaco does it add ( subtract ) ?
Now i am not sure we are talking about the same game. Spider against fire giant ? I think on average sword spider will die in 2 hits from a fire giant...even 5 spiders vs 1 fire giant, i wouldnt bet on them and that is without SCS2..or maybe i am missing something ?
Elementals.....why is fire good against cloakers ? Earth elemental, AOE atack, what does that mean ?
Why can fallen deva hold on her own unlike dela ? I think jaheira as neutral can pick fallen deva...aerie can pick both planetar/fallen planetar and deva/fallen deva. I am thinking whether i should pick fallen planetar ( since i will have 2 other chars have planetar spell )...variety is good but is there anything at all that fallen planetar is better in then planetar...

Wyvern.....i will have to test this one a bit. Maybe massed with haste....i know they die fast which means they have to be used as "snipers", like find a weak mage or priest, poison him.....this will disrupt his spells, do lots of damage etc.

1.    I would take a Fallen Deva over a Deva/ Planetar if melee combat is what’s needed... If you don’t need melee then take the one which has spells you like to use.

2.    IME their THAC0 is irrelevant because there are so many of them and they automatically hit targets that are stunned... hence the Nymph.

3.    You can control Vampires (un-dead) by having an evil Cleric ‘Turn’ them to your side & any Mage with wisdom of less than 11 (eg Nalia) can cast ‘Limited Wish’ for six vamps by asking for protection from un-dead... Even if you already have a full conplement of peons you will still get to keep the six extra because ‘Turn’ed targets DON’T count towards the summoning limits at the time they are ‘Turn’ed.

4.    The point is that the Spider does not get hit by the Giant because poison keeps the Giant from fighting back.

5.    IMO an SCS Fallen Deva/ planetar is armed with a better weapon than Deva/ Planetar but if you want them as spell casters then it’s a null point... Deva are smaller than Plantetar and therefore will fit inside of a ‘Chain Contingency’ which does sometimes have its uses.

6.    I would always take a Wyvern but they are a large beast and they tend to get in the way so I've gone off them recently.

[Piplodocus]

Keldorn vs Jaheira, a few more thoughts: This is the spoilers-allowed forum but I'll try to be as subtle as possible; there is a possibility that Keldorn's sidequest may cause him to leave the party for good, especially as you seem keen on role-playing fairly strongly, and you err towards Good. Jaheira's sidequest on the other hand, is all about doing your utmost to keep her in the party, and she is a romance option for a male character. On the other hand, there is a very, very tasty weapon in the game (one of the very best) that can only be wielded by paladins, and if your main character is not a paladin (which I understand (s)he isn't), that means Keldorn is your only way to make use of it.

Modifié par Piplodocus, 13 décembre 2012 - 12:42 .

[goblinsly1]

ussnorway: Hmm, why is fallen deva better then normal deva or planetar in melee ?
I forgot that poison will prevent fire giant to fight back. Does it work the same way if spider attacks you ? Just trying to make sure its not cheesy. Same with summoning 6 vamps....sounds a bit cheesy...i might use it for some of the easier battles though, just for fun, i might use wish also...to give all my parts some bonuses...it sounds fun. )
I will have to test wyvern. What about crawlers ? Stun is awesome but haste and a tank is a must...

[ussnorway]

goblinsly1 wrote...

ussnorway: Hmm, why is fallen deva better then normal deva or planetar in melee ?
I forgot that poison will prevent fire giant to fight back. Does it work the same way if spider attacks you ? Just trying to make sure its not cheesy. Same with summoning 6 vamps....sounds a bit cheesy...i might use it for some of the easier battles though, just for fun, i might use wish also...to give all my parts some bonuses...it sounds fun. )
I will have to test wyvern. What about crawlers ? Stun is awesome but haste and a tank is a must...

1.    Because she can put up ‘Blade Barrier’ and her weapon ‘Dispel’s on hit.

2.    Yes you and yours can be quickly locked out of fighting/ casting by the enemy spiders "poison" attacks.

3.    Cheese is a relative term but, for me, it is when a boss/ mod fight uses tactics that are not allowed by the rules eg. Spiders that can now teleport around the battlefield, Dragons that are immune to traps/ AOE and Druids which somehow know and use arcane spells are all cheese... I mean if she used the divine version of 'Invisible' then I’d probably just live with it.

4.    I’d like to point out that it takes a Mage and Cleric working together in order to make that trick work so without your PC that’s Nalia {Edwin?} and Viconia PLUS the little detail that six hostile vampires just dropped on the head of your Mage but I’m sure you have a plan to deal with that facet, right?

5.    Tanking is an epic in itself;

1st what are you tanking? Dragons = Haer'Dalis, Un-dead {or Paladins} = Viconia (because she can 'Turn' them) & Beholders = Hakeashar.

2nd what else is happening? Your Hakeashar & Deva are fine until you drop a ‘Deathfog’ at which point the Hakeashar is dispelled and the Deva just went hostile so perhaps Haer'Dalis was still the better option because he can put up ‘Protection From Acid’ and so ignore the spells effects.

3rd ‘Haste’ is melee and has no effect on spells... you’re not wrong to use it but I’m just saying that people sometimes get stuck in a fighter {good}, spells {bad} mentality which limits their tactics... BG is more complex than modern games and there is more than one way to play it.

[VelvetV]

One more question:

5) When should I go after Imoen (meaning pay 15.000)? I got 15.000 long ago but laid it aside, because I came under belief that assassins start attacking you if you side with the Shadow Thieves, and vice versa. I decided I'd need more levels to deal with that. But how will it change Imoen? I mean, int he first game she was a great thief, now she can't detect a trap or open a lock for the life of her, so the more I lay it aside the less XP she'll get and the more useless she'll become.

I don't really want spoilers, but it's ok if I have to know when she can be retrieved, now or at the end of the game.

Piplodocus wrote...

there is a possibility that Keldorn's sidequest may cause him to leave the party for good, especially as you seem keen on role-playing fairly strongly, and you err towards Good.

If you mean his wife, then I accidentally clicked something wrong and now he decided to act for the sake of honor and bring her to court. Haven't found him yet, though, he said I'll be at the Hall of the Radiant Heart, but my party is walking all over that place and can't see him

[goblinsly1]

I do most quests before i go after imoen. It seems better this way, like, you come out of dungeon, you know you arent strong enough...getting imoen out is a big quest ( for me ) and from roleplaying point of view you wanna get as many allies as possible, get money, items, experience...then go get her. I mean, the whole thing is much less dramatic if you save her after a day or two. Basicly i leave a few quests which are really really really hard to make without the levels underdark gives you. I am unsure though on how it affects difficulty. With mods i still have trouble in certain areas where you pick imoen....soo if i went with few less levels...it would be even harder...

Other ppl like to go pick her up asap since they dont want her to suffer and want a thief asap. As for experience of her, dont worry about that.

[VelvetV]

Yeah it makes sense to go after her with more levels. My biggest frustration with the game now is that on most area transitions the party gets attacked. And in some areas there aren't any inns, so they can't rest and get healed. So of course ambushing my characters who're near death results in killing them. I swear they get attacked at pretty much each and every area transition.

[Grond0]

You can rest in pretty much all outside areas and most underground ones. If you're worried about being attacked while resting then stick invis 10' on the party or rest next to a map transition so you can run immediately if you want to.

[goblinsly1]

I have got a feeling that if i keep reading this forum, i am gonna get me a panic attack. And since i completed bg2 and expansion about 15 times....i think that either says something about the quality of the game or about my mental condition, lolz.

You can rest anywhere, if you are worried about being disturbed by the military, simply press space, rest, when you are disturbed, rest again...i wont do that on my next playthrough since i decided to play as legit as possible, soo i am gonna rent a room. Dont ask me though how 6 ppl are going to sleep in room with 2 beds...

[goblinsly1]

I got a question. I am installing BG2 and TOB just soo that sometimes i can use shadowkeeper to check stats of different creatures. To be honest i would be glad if there would be a shadowkeeper base online somewhere because having bg2 installed is a risk of me starting to play it again and fail everything else in life i am doing right now. But i will have to hope i am strong enough.

What im gonna do is check stats of different creatures you can summon. For now i dont care about enemies, i am only going to check them when i do get to play bg2 ( and even that i will only check them after the fight, exept for last ascension battle where i will need their resistances etc. ).

Now my question. Actualy 2 or more. First of all, which creatures you can summon get changed by SCS2 ? I know efreeties and djinies get instant casting of spells and some extra spells but i dont care much for that. What i care about is change in health, thaco, ac, resistances...probably all demons you can summon but i dont use them anyway, exept maybe for fun. What about other creatures ?
Another question, lets say spider...i know where to check his attack ( his palm or hand ) but where do i check how much % on every hit it is that he will poison and whether there is a saving throw ? Things like this. Or if its immune to normal weapons...i need it because in my spare time i like to plan on different combos, like, combos that usualy arent used and maybe arent very powerfull but certanly can be fun ( 10x web and 5 improve hasted sword spiders anyone ?? ).

ps: the reason that i am asking if SCS2 changes any summoned creatures is because if it does, i will have to install scs2 aswell which takes time and i would be glad to avoid it if i could...

Modifié par goblinsly1, 04 janvier 2013 - 10:02 .

[morbidest2]

Piplodocus wrote...

Keldorn vs Jaheira, a few more thoughts: This is the spoilers-allowed forum but I'll try to be as subtle as possible; there is a possibility that Keldorn's sidequest may cause him to leave the party for good, especially as you seem keen on role-playing fairly strongly, and you err towards Good. Jaheira's sidequest on the other hand, is all about doing your utmost to keep her in the party, and she is a romance option for a male character. On the other hand, there is a very, very tasty weapon in the game (one of the very best) that can only be wielded by paladins, and if your main character is not a paladin (which I understand (s)he isn't), that means Keldorn is your only way to make use of it.

Your viewpoint is certainly valid, but on the 3rd hand    there is another nifty weapon which only a Druid can use, which makes the end of SoA much easier. And Cernd's platitudes make him poor company.