176 réponses à ce sujet

[Oni Changas]

Havoc swaps cryo blast for incendiary nades.
Marksman trades sabotage for defense matrix or arc grenades.
Vorchw engy drops incinerate for multifrag.

[FlowCytometry]

Some people have strange concepts of what an under-performing class is.

So what I got from this thread is.. everyone should have grenades! Well, I guess I need more reason to use thermals, so sure why not.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Volus sentinel - replace combat drone with a medic drone that can revive teammates

[ABjerre]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Salarian Engineer - Replace the current craptastic Decoy with Defense Matrix.

I would have gone with Tactical Scan but i'll settle for anyhting really... right now it isn't very good against anything but the Geth.

[Beeno4Life]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Asari Huntress
Dark Channel Warp with Flare

FTFY

[Gamemako]

Ha, **** this, let's make everyone awesome.

Havoc Soldier:
Cryo Blast -> Fortification (aww yeah, ground pound)

Drell Vanguard:
Pull -> Dark Channel (aww yeah, explosions errewer)

Vorcha Engineer:
Incinerate -> Ballistic Blades (aww yeah, ballistic blades)

Vorcha Soldier:
Carnage -> Inferno Grenades ('cause fire)

Female Quarian Engineer:
Cryo Blast -> Snap Freeze ('cause cryo explosions)

Batarian Vanguard:
Lash -> Multi-Frag Grenades ('cause what the **** is Lash for, anyway?)

Quarian Marksman Soldier:
Tactical Scan -> Recon Mine ('cause seriously, TS sucks and has no synergy with Marksman)

Human Infiltrator
Cryo Blast -> Submission Net (ha ha I removed Cryo Blast from every character that has it because it's a **** skill)

I think that's all of the weaker classes. Did I miss any?

//EDIT: Also, it's shocking how many people want two grenade powers on the Havoc. That's a terrible idea.

Modifié par Gamemako, 11 décembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[PaulGreg]

Volus adept, biotic orbs for nova,
FYI ballistic blades should never be taken away from the batsol for any other combat power

[CitizenThom]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

I'll start. The Turian Havoc Soldier has:

Havoc Strike
Cryo Blast 
Stim Pack

I would replace Cryo Blast with either:

Fortification
Inferno Grenades

Fortification would allow him to be tankier and deal substantial melee damage. Inferno grenades would improve his offensive potential and let him self-detonate fire explosions. Grenade + strike a group of enemies, proceed to mop them up.

Fortification would be a great compliment to Havoc Strike... instead of the stim pack, or a shield refill, it would've been great if Havoc Strike included a 4-5 second period of 40%+ damage resistance either by default or as an evolution at rank 5 or 6.

I wish the Batarian Brawler has Ballistic Blades instead of Lash. Again, I like Lash, but Ballistic Blades would be much more helpful for synch kill enemies than Lash is. It's still a close quarters skill, but doesn't require the Brawler to get so close that he gets executed.

p.s. I don't think grenades = better power... afterall anymore than one player grabbing grenades from ammo crates means that by wave 4 or 5, you've run out of grenades.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 11 décembre 2012 - 03:00 .

[Gamemako]

CitizenThom wrote...

Fortification would be a great compliment to Havoc Strike... instead of the stim pack, or a shield refill, it would've been great if Havoc Strike included a 4-5 second period of 40%+ damage resistance either by default or as an evolution at rank 5 or 6.

Havok Strike, like Biotic Charge, gives 50% list DR for 4 seconds after a successful attack. Fortification, Barrier, and Blade Armor all allow the Vanguard to have 90% list DR after charging (that's 67.5% real reduction). A Drell Vanguard gets 50% DR from his dodge, so he gets 100% list DR / 75% real DR while dodging after using Biotic Charge.

Fortification would be arguably overpowered on the Havoc, since stims and a Havok Strike would make you all but invulnerable for the duration. Limiting factor, though, is popping a stim every 9 seconds.

CitizenThom wrote...

I wish the Batarian Brawler has Ballistic Blades instead of Lash. Again, I like Lash, but Ballistic Blades would be much more helpful for synch kill enemies than Lash is. It's still a close quarters skill, but doesn't require the Brawler to get so close that he gets executed.

I personally chose multi-frags because BB has little synergy with a Charge kit. Charge can be used at any range BB can be used, and while BB does more damage, Charge refills your shields. Given that they share a cooldown, it doesn't make sense to use BB in most cases, which would have me not touching the skill more or less at all.

'Course, I wasn't going for balanced in the first place.

CitizenThom wrote...

p.s. I don't think grenades = better power... afterall anymore than one player grabbing grenades from ammo crates means that by wave 4 or 5, you've run out of grenades.

2 players using grenades is fine. 3 players is a stretch, but maps with 2 grenades per box are generally OK if everyone is willing to use ammo kits. Regardless, the main advantage of grenade powers is that they don't have a cooldown, which means they synergize well with kits that have other primary skills.

[UnknownMercenary]

Gamemako wrote...

Ha, **** this, let's make everyone awesome.

Havoc Soldier:
Cryo Blast -> Fortification (aww yeah, ground pound)

Drell Vanguard:
Pull -> Dark Channel (aww yeah, explosions errewer)

Vorcha Engineer:
Incinerate -> Ballistic Blades (aww yeah, ballistic blades)

Vorcha Soldier:
Carnage -> Inferno Grenades ('cause fire)

Female Quarian Engineer:
Cryo Blast -> Snap Freeze ('cause cryo explosions)

Batarian Vanguard:
Lash -> Multi-Frag Grenades ('cause what the **** is Lash for, anyway?)

Quarian Marksman Soldier:
Tactical Scan -> Recon Mine ('cause seriously, TS sucks and has no synergy with Marksman)

Human Infiltrator
Cryo Blast -> Submission Net (ha ha I removed Cryo Blast from every character that has it because it's a **** skill)

I think that's all of the weaker classes. Did I miss any?

//EDIT: Also, it's shocking how many people want two grenade powers on the Havoc. That's a terrible idea.

I would take Cryo Blast over Sub Net any time. Cryo Blast can actually hit things.

[Gamemako]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

I would take Cryo Blast over Sub Net any time. Cryo Blast can actually hit things.

At least SubNet does something when it hits. Even if Cryo Blast were an instant skill, it would still not be worth putting points into. SubNet deals thousands of damage over the duration, holds shielded targets, can be set as a trap, and primes TBs every time. Cryo Blast primes CEs only after a delay only on unprotected targets, only holds unprotected targets, and doesn't deal damage. I don't think SubNet is a great skill, but Cryo Blast is a worthless piece of ****.

[Tybo]

Gamemako wrote...

UnknownMercenary wrote...

I would take Cryo Blast over Sub Net any time. Cryo Blast can actually hit things.

At least SubNet does something when it hits. Even if Cryo Blast were an instant skill, it would still not be worth putting points into. SubNet deals thousands of damage over the duration, holds shielded targets, can be set as a trap, and primes TBs every time. Cryo Blast primes CEs only after a delay only on unprotected targets, only holds unprotected targets, and doesn't deal damage. I don't think SubNet is a great skill, but Cryo Blast is a worthless piece of ****.

An infiltrator shouldn't need Sub Net to do damage.  That 25% debuff is going to help you kill bosses faster than the little damage Sub Net does, and against mooks an Infiltrator shouldn't have a problem.  Shooting them works better.

[Tallgeese_VII]

Quarian Marksman.
Sabotage -> Arc grenade.

[Gamemako]

tyhw wrote...

An infiltrator shouldn't need Sub Net to do damage.  That 25% debuff is going to help you kill bosses faster than the little damage Sub Net does, and against mooks an Infiltrator shouldn't have a problem.  Shooting them works better.

AoE CC for 1000 damage across a half-dozen mooks versus a negligible difference in boss kill speed (small enough that it is effectively zero except for the 4 tank bosses)? Yeah... no.

//EDIT: Come to think of it, you can easily exceed 300 damage per second for the 6m AoE ticks. Tag 3 targets with this along with the direct target and you'd need to deal around 7000 DPS to match that damage benefit out of Cryo Blast. Ain't gonna happen.

Modifié par Gamemako, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:03 .

[DullahansXMark]

Destroyer:

Multi-Frag Grenade > Annihilation Field

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Tybo]

Gamemako wrote...

tyhw wrote...

An infiltrator shouldn't need Sub Net to do damage.  That 25% debuff is going to help you kill bosses faster than the little damage Sub Net does, and against mooks an Infiltrator shouldn't have a problem.  Shooting them works better.

AoE CC for 1000 damage across a half-dozen mooks versus a negligible difference in boss kill speed (small enough that it is effectively zero except for the 4 tank bosses)? Yeah... no.

Half dozen?  With a 6 meter Radius?  And 6 mooks?  When are there ever 6 mooks at once?

And that AoE is done so slowly you can easily shoot them dead before it does nearly all of that 1000 damage.  And there is always a tank boss to kill.

Yeah...no

[UnknownMercenary]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Destroyer:

Multi-Frag Grenade > Annihilation Field

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I wouldn't need adrenaline mod 3 then...

Still better than HML.

[Gamemako]

tyhw wrote...

Half dozen?  With a 6 meter Radius?  And 6 mooks?  When are there ever 6 mooks at once?

And that AoE is done so slowly you can easily shoot them dead before it does nearly all of that 1000 damage.  And there is always a tank boss to kill.

Yeah...no

There are frequently 3-4 in a group, especially since they tend to stand in one place once they enter the DoT field.

There may be a tank boss to kill, but it is rarely efficient to bother with him -- the time taken to kill him versus the wavebudget benefit is rather poor, and when it comes to all but the Praetorian, they're slow or range-limited. You can wipe out an entire wave worth of Phantoms in the time it takes to whittle down the Possessed Praetorian's 45000 armor and 20000 barrier.

Modifié par Gamemako, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Tybo]

Gamemako wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Half dozen?  With a 6 meter Radius?  And 6 mooks?  When are there ever 6 mooks at once?

And that AoE is done so slowly you can easily shoot them dead before it does nearly all of that 1000 damage.  And there is always a tank boss to kill.

Yeah...no

There are frequently 3-4 in a group, especially since they tend to stand in one place once they enter the DoT field.

There may be a tank boss to kill, but it is rarely efficient to bother with him -- the time taken to kill him versus the wavebudget benefit is rather poor, and when it comes to all but the Praetorian, they're slow or range-limited. You can wipe out an entire wave worth of Phantoms in the time it takes to whittle down the Possessed Praetorian's 45000 barrier and armor.

But you forget.  We're using an infiltrator here.  Instead of wasting my time with sub net, I  can one-shot 3 mooks with my black widow (phasic rounds ftw).  Then, I have a power that'll actually help me kill bosses.  Or instead, I could throw a sticky grenade instead and have them all die instantly.

Would I rather have cryo blast on the bat sentinel?  No.  But on an Infiltrator?  Absolutely.

[Cellodanceparty]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

Asari Huntress
Dark Channel with Flare

I have seen you post this a few times. I'm starting to think you're serious about it

[rtbh99]

salarian engineer and infiltrator

replace with something that isnt salarian

[Jackville Assington]

Drell Adept:

Replace Reave with Anhilation Field for movement speed
Replace Cluster Grenade with Hunter Mode for movement speed
Replace Pull with Bloodlust for movement speed

Drell Vanguard

Replace Charge with Bloodlust for movement speed
Replace Cluster grenade with Anhilation field for movement speed
Replace pull with Hunter mode for movement speed


introduce adrenaline module 4 with +50% movement speed

AAAAAAAAAWWWH YEEEEAAAAAAAAH!

[davidthepanda]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

Human Vanguard
Shockwave -> Annihilation Field

Am I doing this right?

Congrats, you have officially beat multiplayer. 

[Gamemako]

tyhw wrote...

But you forget.  We're using an infiltrator here.  Instead of wasting my time with sub net, I  can one-shot 3 mooks with my black widow (phasic rounds ftw).

Yeah, with perfect aim, perfect shot timing, and the right opponents lining themselves up. Realistically, that won't happen even once in a match on average, even if you're Feneckus or Jay_Hoxatron.

tyhw wrote...

Then, I have a power that'll actually help me kill bosses.

If you compare SubNet to Cryo Blast on any target, you'll find that ONLY on the biggest ones can Cryo Blast ever catch up. A Platinum Ravager has 10530 health. You only get up to 20% of that as bonus from Cryo Blast, which is 2106 damage. You'll get at least 1755 out of Submission Net from the direct DoT alone. Again, the only time where Cryo Blast's debuff has any advantage over SubNet's raw damage is on the four tank bosses. That is the only situation, period, where you would ever consider Cryo Blast over SubNet. It's that simple.

tyhw wrote...

Or instead, I could throw a sticky grenade instead and have them all die instantly.

Even if you could hit 3 mooks with a 2m radius and even if you ignore the limited grenade capacity, you have to rely on a glitch to kill anything but basic mooks with the thing.

Modifié par Gamemako, 11 décembre 2012 - 04:38 .

[Tybo]

Gamemako wrote...

tyhw wrote...

But you forget.  We're using an infiltrator here.  Instead of wasting my time with sub net, I  can one-shot 3 mooks with my black widow (phasic rounds ftw).

Yeah, with perfect aim, perfect shot timing, and the right opponents lining themselves up. Realistically, that won't happen even once in a match on average, even if you're Feneckus or Jay_Hoxatron.

tyhw wrote...

Then, I have a power that'll actually help me kill bosses.

If you compare SubNet to Cryo Blast on any target, you'll find that ONLY on the biggest ones can Cryo Blast ever catch up. A Platinum Ravager has 10530 health. You only get up to 20% of that as bonus from Cryo Blast, which is 2106 damage. You'll get at least 1755 out of Submission Net from the base damage alone. Again, the only time where Cryo Blast's debuff has any advantage over SubNet's raw damage is on the four tank bosses. That is the only situation, period, where you would ever consider Cryo Blast over SubNet. It's that simple.

tyhw wrote...

Or instead, I could throw a sticky grenade instead and have them all die instantly.

Even if you could hit 3 mooks with a 2m radius and even if you ignore the limited grenade capacity, you have to rely on a glitch to kill anything but basic mooks with the thing.

Not true.  Cryo blast has a significant advantage on sub bosses too.  The 25% debuff 1) applies to breakoffs, so that breaking a ravagers sacs will do 37.5% of its armor and 25% of scions armor.  2) It applies as spike damage affecting both ammo damage and shot damage, allowing you to get all of that damage up front instead of slowly, over time.  

It also affects sticky grenade damage, allowing you to quickly spike down sub-bosses like brutes, ravagers, and scions.  It won't help you on mooks, but I still think sub nets advantage there is marginal on an infiltrator with very high weapon damage.