300 réponses à ce sujet

[areuexperienced]

JimmyBazooka wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

JimmyBazooka wrote...

That's simply a lazy design that is pretty popular among game devs.

Oh dear...

Is it really SO hard to imagine that there might be reasons other than "laziness"?

Oh dear...

Is it really SO hard to understand that there are no real reasons except for genuine laziness?

Well, there really isn't any point in arguing with you at this point since  your opinion is already obviously set in stone. If you want to take it as a sign of laziness, that's your right but don't expect everybody to agree with you and also don't get your panties all in a bunch when devs dismiss your comments. If you ask me, I'd rather they spend their time arguing with an inanimate object than with the likes of you.

[upsettingshorts]

JimmyBazooka wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

JimmyBazooka wrote...

That's simply a lazy design that is pretty popular among game devs.

Oh dear...

Is it really SO hard to imagine that there might be reasons other than "laziness"?

Oh dear...

Is it really SO hard to understand that there are no real reasons except for genuine laziness?

Things the BSN actually believes.

[lil yonce]

nightscrawl wrote...

Some people feel the need to continually rehash topics that have been done to death, including those with developer comments, because they seem to feel that their shiny new thread is going to contribute something fresh to the discussion. In reality, most of the same posters (sometimes myself included) will post the same things they have been posting for over a year on said topic, no minds are changed, the thread dies, and is reborn again by someone else. Can you really blame him?

Its understandable, but its not a good look for someone in a leadership position. Not a good look to be so high-handed when dealing with fans.

[Plaintiff]

Youth4Ever wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Some people feel the need to continually rehash topics that have been done to death, including those with developer comments, because they seem to feel that their shiny new thread is going to contribute something fresh to the discussion. In reality, most of the same posters (sometimes myself included) will post the same things they have been posting for over a year on said topic, no minds are changed, the thread dies, and is reborn again by someone else. Can you really blame him?

Its understandable, but its not a good look for someone in a leadership position. Not a good look to be so high-handed when dealing with fans.

In any other business, say a restaurant or a retail store, rude customers are refused service and ejected from the premises.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Quething wrote...

Gaider is kind of a troll, though. I enjoy a lot of what he has to say in a broadcast format (his tumblr is great) but discussion-wise like 90% of his posts strike me as unnecessarily rude.

I don't find David rude at all.  He's blunt, yes.  I appreciate his bluntness.  His responses are clear and straightforward.

Akugagi wrote...

Wow, this never bothered me. I can't believe someone actually pays attention to the doors. You suffer from some OCD or what?

It never bothered me until ME2 when it was used to enforce encounter-specific ammo scarcity.

I just killed a room full of guys, and they dropped more ammo than I could carry.  I moved into the next room, ran out of ammo, and tried to go back to get more.  Locked door.

[LittleDiegito]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If someone like Sylvius doesn't request things from a by-gone era... who else will? And if no one requests them... then how can we expect anything but the same type of game, over and over and over again? 

Technology is not the problem. Game Design limitations and lack of initiative to do so is the problem.

Fair enough.

I dont think tabletop gamers are a dwindling crowd though. As I understand it the hobby has become more popular and mainstream than it used to be (still not there though). In fact I regularly see a lot people browsing the D&D and Pathfinder books at the Barnes and Noble I go to. When I worked for Borders I saw a steady upsurge over the years in parents and their kids buying those books as well. Not to mention if I recall correctly many of the devs here at Bioware and at other dev houses play tabletop themselves.

As far as the technology thing. I think maybe I wasnt very clear about what I meant. Maybe I meant the tech isnt cheap/available enough to really simulate the tabletop experience.

Even the most sandboxy games available still dont allow me to respond to situations in the ways I may want to. Theres just no way they can. Even real life GMs cant always predict how their players will react. At least for me a big part of the fun in GMing is when Ive been preparing for days, thinking Ive covered every base, and the players responses still leave me surprised. In the confrontation with Howe I didnt even want my noble origin Warden
to say anything. Stare at Howe, slowly and pruposefully draw her weapons, never breaking eye contact. Not a single word said. Thats something the devs could have built in but they didnt for whatever reason. Maybe they didnt think it would be a popular choice, maybe they didnt have space or time to create more options, maybe it didnt even occur to them as a possibility. Im ok with that.

The same thing with dialog. Even with an unvoiced protagonist I still cant create my own dialog the way I want and have the game respond appropriately. I wish I could type in, or say, the dialog I want and thats what the Warden, or Hawke, or Shepard would actually say.

Maybe the tech for this sort of thing does exist, but not in a form that can be put into a game with that $70 price point. Size limitations on disks and so on lead to it being a trade off of narrative versus sandboxiness as we see in a lot of these Bethesda and Bioware threads (for my part I prefer a strong narrative and some degree of game guidance over open world exploration in my CRPGs).

(EDIT: Spelling [Theres probably more...])

Modifié par LittleDiegito, 12 décembre 2012 - 06:48 .

[LittleDiegito]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Or they turn down the difficulty, behave exactly the same way, and succeed.

Some people appear not to want to learn.

But villians that behave that way arent credible. How would they become credible threats if they ran to their deaths any time someone poked their head in a room then ran away?

They're not credible threats.  There are perhaps a handful of encounters in either DA game that can be described as credible threats.  Those encounters might warrant explicably locked doors.  But the vast majority do not.

The first part I dont have any counter for but anecdotal evidence which doesnt stand for much. My experience is players (or at least the ones I know) dont like to turn down the difficulty and will only do so if they feel theyve exhausted their options and cant win any other way (and this is certainly the case for me).

The second part though. If our characters are chasing down or looking for these villians or trying to stop them and so on, then those villians ARE credible threats. Maybe not mechanically but certainly in world to our characters. But they cant be with the current AI. If theyre as stupid as all that how has no one else killed them long ago?

[LittleDiegito]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't find David rude at all.  He's blunt, yes.  I appreciate his bluntness.  His responses are clear and straightforward.

I agree with this.

I also dont think he should be expected to just take peoples abuse because he has a job. Many people seem to think they can say whatever they want to anyone they want but no one can do the same to them. If Im being rude or a jerk then by all means call me on it. I appreciate that Mr. Gaider does respond in kind to posters.

[rapscallioness]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Quething wrote...

Gaider is kind of a troll, though. I enjoy a lot of what he has to say in a broadcast format (his tumblr is great) but discussion-wise like 90% of his posts strike me as unnecessarily rude.

I don't find David rude at all.  He's blunt, yes.  I appreciate his bluntness.  His responses are clear and straightforward.
 (snip on -topic stuff)

This. And not to mention that 90% of BSN user posts are unnecessarily rude to the devs. Well, maybe not 90%, but I've read some horrendous crap from posters.

[rapscallioness]

Also, turning down the difficulty is the absolutely last thing I ever want to do. It equates w/ failure. Even if I win the battle then, I still feel like I lost.

But if my other save point is waaaay back...I just...I just learn to always be prepared. Take no situation for granted.

Modifié par rapscallioness, 12 décembre 2012 - 06:29 .

[labargegrrrl]

was initially keeping an eye on this thread b/c it was interesting...

now it's devolved into insane hate feast insanity sorely in need of prozac.

therefore, there is only one thing left i can do:

get some popcorn.

[Provi-dance]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...


I don't find David rude at all.  He's blunt, yes.  I appreciate his bluntness.  His responses are clear and straightforward.
 

He defined your suggestions "borderline spam".

[Provi-dance]

Plaintiff wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Some people feel the need to continually rehash topics that have been done to death, including those with developer comments, because they seem to feel that their shiny new thread is going to contribute something fresh to the discussion. In reality, most of the same posters (sometimes myself included) will post the same things they have been posting for over a year on said topic, no minds are changed, the thread dies, and is reborn again by someone else. Can you really blame him?

Its understandable, but its not a good look for someone in a leadership position. Not a good look to be so high-handed when dealing with fans.

In any other business, say a restaurant or a retail store, rude customers are refused service and ejected from the premises.

Rude employees are ejected from their jobs even faster though.

I've actually never witnessed a customer "being ejected and refused services" no matter how rude they were. You often find yourself in such situations?

[Maria Caliban]

I've watched customers get ejected from bars, dance clubs, and strip clubs many times. I've also done customer service work where we were allowed to hang up on abusive customers, though we had to inform them before doing so.

The reason you don't see people "ejected and refused service" is that the majority of business are discreet about it.

You don't grab them by the scruff of their neck and haul them out (unless they're drunk and you're trained for just that) you politely tell them to leave.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 12 décembre 2012 - 07:03 .

[LittleDiegito]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I've watched customers get ejected from bars, dance clubs, and strip clubs many times. I've also done customer service work where we were allowed to hang up on abusive customers, though we had to inform them before doing so.

The reason you don't see people "ejected and refused service" is that the majority of business are discreet about it.

Ive spent just about  my entire working life in retail. All of the places I have worked for have asked customers to leave at some point. Its not all that uncommon. Places just try not to make a scene of it

[Provi-dance]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I've watched customers get ejected from bars, dance clubs, and strip clubs many times. I've also done customer service work where we were allowed to hang up on abusive customers, though we had to inform them before doing so.

The reason you don't see people "ejected and refused service" is that the majority of business are discreet about it.

You don't grab them by the scruff of their neck and haul them out (unless they're drunk and you're trained for just that) you politely tell them to leave.

Ah, they're discreet about it? That's probably why I've never seen someone get ejected for things that can get you banned on certain forums.
But why are they discreet about it .. if they're doing the right thang? Are they afraid of some kind of customer backlash or something?

[LittleDiegito]

Provi-dance wrote...

Ah, they're discreet about it? That's probably why I've never seen someone get ejected for things that can get you banned on certain forums.
But why are they discreet about it .. if they're doing the right thang? Are they afraid of some kind of customer backlash or something?

The same reason the mods here dont publicly announce how or when theyve disciplined particular posters. The same reason most managers dont coach or discipline their employees in front of other employees or customers. Because its not your business and they respect the privacy of the individuals involved. Its between the store and the customer, not you.

Ejecting a rude or problematic customer rarely engenders customer backlash. For the most part when customers see other customers being a jerk they usually support ejecting them and sometimes even complain when that doesnt happen

[Renmiri1]

Lots of games have doors locked. Zelda pretty much always had them. What is the big deal ?

[Provi-dance]

LittleDiegito wrote...

Provi-dance wrote...

Ah, they're discreet about it? That's probably why I've never seen someone get ejected for things that can get you banned on certain forums.
But why are they discreet about it .. if they're doing the right thang? Are they afraid of some kind of customer backlash or something?

The same reason the mods here dont publicly announce how or when theyve disciplined particular posters. The same reason most managers dont coach or discipline their employees in front of other employees or customers. Because its not your business and they respect the privacy of the individuals involved. Its between the store and the customer, not you.

Ejecting a rude or problematic customer rarely engenders customer backlash. For the most part when customers see other customers being a jerk they usually support ejecting them and sometimes even complain when that doesnt happen

You don't think unfair ejections happen? The "ejectors" are always right?

Also, if someone is being verbally abusive, you think "ejectors" would respect his/her privacy and tell them quietly into the ear to please go away and nobody would notice anything?



Anyhow, I'm gonna eject myself from this pointless discussion.

[lil yonce]

Plaintiff wrote...

In any other business, say a restaurant or a retail store, rude customers are refused service and ejected from the premises.

I'm not really addressing banning posters. That's necessary at times. Simply, them being rude doesn't mean Gaider has to be in return. It doesn't present the best image of him.

[Renmiri1]

I don't think Gaider was rude, he just refuses to take crap from rude posters. good for him!

[frankf43]

Provi-dance wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Some people feel the need to continually rehash topics that have been done to death, including those with developer comments, because they seem to feel that their shiny new thread is going to contribute something fresh to the discussion. In reality, most of the same posters (sometimes myself included) will post the same things they have been posting for over a year on said topic, no minds are changed, the thread dies, and is reborn again by someone else. Can you really blame him?

Its understandable, but its not a good look for someone in a leadership position. Not a good look to be so high-handed when dealing with fans.

In any other business, say a restaurant or a retail store, rude customers are refused service and ejected from the premises.

Rude employees are ejected from their jobs even faster though.

I've actually never witnessed a customer "being ejected and refused services" no matter how rude they were. You often find yourself in such situations?

Hell yeah I've been kicked out of loads of pubs and clubs when I was younger.

Also when I've worked damn hard on a project only to have someone nit pick all the negative points while not bringing up the good qualities of the piece can be rather maddening. Even more so when you know there is a good reason for a certain constraint but the person complaining doesn't care about your reasoning


I must admit I applaud David and the other devs for their involvement in the forums. I've played games where you could go for weeks in a forum without any dev inter-action its a breath of fresh air that the devs are willing to banter with us and openly discuss the issues we are interested in.

I for one say thank you and I know that the game will be the best you can make it because your comments on this forum only go to prove you care.
 

Modifié par frankf43, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:31 .

[Sir JK]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
And I'll stop you right there. Combat design is a thing. It was a thing in DAO as well.
Sure it was.  But it shouldn't be. *snipped by me*  Combat shouldn't have special metaphysical characteristics that otherwise never occur in the game's reality.


In what way does the food abstraction damage credibility?  I really want this answer.

I took these two comments out since I feel it highlights what I wish to address here.

It comes across as if you're perfectly willing to accept abstraction to avoid the issue of hunger, which narratively, is a very real threat. Even to our characters. But that you have chosen to reject abstraction in combat. Both dangers (physical violence and hunger) have emotional value for roleplaying purposes, so why is one acceptable and one not?
Rather than accept both as abstracted, you have decided for yourself that one of them reflects the world as it functions. If that is the way you wish to play, then fine by me. But I personally feel that calling the world incoherent or arbitrary for a choice you made for yourself is very disingenious. The only reason it does not is because you decided to approach it that way.

But more crucially and perhaps more relevant, if the reason this limitation exist is technological reasons (which is rather likely, if only partially) rather than part of the abstraction you do not accept, then removing it will not likely improve your playstyle. Instead it will allow you options and tactics that the enemy, because of technological or AI reasons, cannot utilise themselves. It would paint your characters, in game, as operating under an exclusive set of rules that nothing else in the world if capable of.
Is this actually an acceptable result to you? Something you'd find better than having a limitation?

Or perhaps the other side of the coin, should it not be to reasons technological:
Would you accept the enemy using these kinds of tricks against you. Blocking your characters with their bodies from both sides in doorways and then tossing AoE after AoE at you until your party is dead? Setting up ambushes around dropped ammo in the event you run out (thus cannot shoot back). Kite your melee combatants? Literally using the limitations of the system, enviroment and the "game world" against you, as a player, unfairly? After all, if that is how the world functions, should not the ones wanting you dead use it against you?
Is this something you would find enjoyable?

Modifié par Sir JK, 12 décembre 2012 - 08:30 .