50 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonAgeLegend]

The Blizzard, Earthquake, Thunder and Fireball attacks as well as others in DAO hurt our companions as well as enemies, In DA2 this was taken out, is it possible and likely to bring this feature back in? It brought a lot more strategy and timing to my experience and I hope Bioware bring this back in DA3. Anyoine else agree? 

Modifié par wesam987, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[AppealToReason]

It annoyed me in DAO to no end. Maybe that was in part do to movement speed since it took half an hour to reposition yourself.

Since I generally play warriors though I'd probably just find myself finding a way to never ever have that ability used.

[Face of Evil]

They do at Nightmare level difficulty in DA2.

YMMV. I don't remember the damage from area attacks being so great that I really had to worry about it.

[Nefla]

That's why only *I* got to use those spells in DA:O, Morrigan and Wynne couldn't be trusted and it was annoying when it was me spending 5 min stumbling around trying to get back up.

[d4eaming]

Oh man, knocking myself to the floor when hurling a fireball at a mob right in front of my face was funny the first couple times, then it got really annoying.

[Poisd2Strike]

In DAO, AOE spells *could* do friendly-fire damage, based upon difficulty setting. Even if they didn't do physical dmg, your companions still tended to freeze in place, appear to be on fire, etc. Personally, I think it would be a very bad idea to make AOE friendly-fire damage *mandatory* in DA3. Unless the devs come up with some 'genius level' companion AI, dealing with AOE friendly-fire would likely be extremely irritating. However, making friendly fire a player choice would be fine. Unlike in DAO, however, a friendly-fire on / off setting should be separate from game difficulty level.

[Jzadek72]

Face of Evil wrote...

They do at Nightmare level difficulty in DA2.

YMMV. I don't remember the damage from area attacks being so great that I really had to worry about it.

Really? I found it was something of a gamechanger. I loved having to weigh up the risks vs the reward when using an AOE. Especially Shale's quake, which would sometimes wipe out my entire party.

[AppealToReason]

Poisd2Strike wrote...

In DAO, AOE spells *could* do friendly-fire damage, based upon difficulty setting. Even if they didn't do physical dmg, your companions still tended to freeze in place, appear to be on fire, etc. Personally, I think it would be a very bad idea to make AOE friendly-fire damage *mandatory* in DA3. Unless the devs come up with some 'genius level' companion AI, dealing with AOE friendly-fire would likely be extremely irritating. However, making friendly fire a player choice would be fine. Unlike in DAO, however, a friendly-fire on / off setting should be separate from game difficulty level.

Probably the most difficult thing for even the best of game developers.

An on/off setting would be a better idea. I'm not a fan of micromanaging too much so if I had to keep switching members to my mage to make sure he didn't light my ass on fire I would probably just find myself leaving him behind. Other people probably find that one of the best parts of the combat system

[Nomadiac]

 You mean friendly fire? That was in DA2 on Nightmare difficulty, though the implementation was ridiculous due to the massive amounts of health enemies had compared to your party. Fenris would chop through my party in two hits and only knock 1/4 health off some bandit...

[DragonAgeLegend]

Jzadek72 wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

They do at Nightmare level difficulty in DA2.

YMMV. I don't remember the damage from area attacks being so great that I really had to worry about it.

Really? I found it was something of a gamechanger. I loved having to weigh up the risks vs the reward when using an AOE. Especially Shale's quake, which would sometimes wipe out my entire party.

That's what I loved about it. There was a lot of strategy when dealing with that sort of thing. I always have played as a mage in DAO and having those AOE spells was a real game changer. Although my companions got hurt from me using them It didn't do much physical damage to their health then to the hurlock I was attacking.

Also, the Emissionaries having those fireball blasts hurting their own darkspawn helped me somewhat during battles. 

[DragonAgeLegend]

Nomadiac wrote...

 You mean friendly fire? That was in DA2 on Nightmare difficulty, though the implementation was ridiculous due to the massive amounts of health enemies had compared to your party. Fenris would chop through my party in two hits and only knock 1/4 health off some bandit...

That's probably why I never noticed it. I am a massive, hardcore fan of DA but playing on Nightmare is definately not for me. I almost always play on Normal or Hard. Sometimes Easy If I'm really having troubles or trying to rush. 

[Wulfram]

I think the lack of friendly fire is a big reason why DA2 combat is percieved as lass tactical than DA:O

[hexaligned]

You are right, they should, which is why Nightmare is the only mode I can play when it comes to DA2.

[Imp of the Perverse]

I have mixed feelings about this. I really like how DA lets you program companion's tactics, but as it stands there's no way to prevent friendly fire from AOE powers, so it pretty much lead to me not putting points into any hostile AOE stuff (especially for warriors, adding mighty blow to your tactics in DA2 was pretty much a death sentence for any rogues in your party.) I like it from a difficulty and realism perspective though.

If they can somehow work avoiding friendly fire into the programmable AI, both in casting for mages, and enemy kiting in warriors for things like mighty blow, I'd be in favor of it. Another option would be to make it possible to get 100% elemental resistance from gear, though that was sometimes tough with DA2's system, and wouldn't help with warrior friendly fire. A third option would be to make the aoe attacks more damaging than non-aoe - if I'm choosing between fireball, which does friendly damage, and an aoe lightning attack that doesn't (in DA2 anyway) there's not much of a reason to bother with fireball if it does roughly the same damage. If they wanted to make some extra devastating spells that were trickier to use due to friendly fire, it'd help preserve the variety of viable powers.

On the off chance that someone from Bioware reads this, if you do decide to work this stuff into the AI, it'd be great if it also took immunity into account. I wouldn't want my mage to hold back on throwing a fireball if the only friendly in the area is my fire-immune warrior tank, and I wouldn't want my warriors to avoid attacking enemies standing in a firestorm if they're immune to the damage from it.

Modifié par Imp of the Perverse, 11 décembre 2012 - 02:37 .

[DarkSpiral]

I'm all for a toggle for friendly fire, independent of difficulty setting.

[Plaintiff]

It's called "Friendly Fire", and people shouldn't have to deal with it if they don't want to.

[Urazz]

Wulfram wrote...

I think the lack of friendly fire is a big reason why DA2 combat is percieved as lass tactical than DA:O

DA2 does have friendly fire on nightmare if I recall.

I personally would rather have friendly fire on a seperate toggle than being tied to difficulty.  I myself wouldn't use friendly fire but the option would be nice.

Modifié par Urazz, 11 décembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[d4eaming]

krul2k wrote...

"Im a master of the Arts ive studied diligently for years to master these deadly skills, but errr could you just move out the way while i cast this spell i errr dont know how to aim yet"

Wasn't there a AD&D mage/wizard ability called Spell Holes that let you avoid friendly fire on your party? My last AD&D character is still stuck in a sewer holding a glowing were-rat femur, some 15 years ago, since we never picked back up so I never got the luxury of actually using that ability

Oh wait! My character after that didn't end up in such a stinky place, totally forgot until just now. That one had a talking, intelligent bow named Bo. ....can we have an intelligent, talking weapon? Maybe one that hates confrontation and faints at the sight of blood? NWN had a talking blade!

Urrr, ummm.. lost my train of thought there.

Modifié par d4eaming, 11 décembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

It may be realistic, but it meant I hardly ever used AoE spells in DA:O. I definitely never put them in companions' tactic lists.

We'd need two additional tactics before I considered it:

1) "Only cast this spell if there are (0...4) allies in the AoE."
2) "If you are being damaged by AoE and your health is (>0%...) run the hell away until it STOPS BURNING."

[Sable Rhapsody]

Realism vs. fun. I think this one susses out on the side of fun. It should be an option for players who want the additional challenge, but not mandatory by any means.

I wound up modding DA:O to have something similar to Spell Holes. It cost skill points and some reserved mana, but made replaying certain sections of the game a lot less agonizing.

[Realmzmaster]

A companion being immune to fire damage does not stop a companion from taking damage from a fireball. A fireball is more than just fire it also has a concussive component that can damage and knock down a companion.
The fire resistant companion would have to wait until the fireball hit and then waltz into the flames. Which can be very difficult to program into the AI. The same with cone of cold. Just because the companion is immune to cold does not mean the companion cannot be frozen in place.

Bioware is very reluctant to include toggle switches in their games. The posters in the forum has ask for many different types of toggles. So I do not think there will be one for friendly fire.

[clipped_wolf]

Don't higher difficulties turn on AOE friendly fire on anyway (or lower difficulties turn it off), making this whole thread moot?

[Tigerman123]

People have such an aversion to turning up the difficulty, having said that friendly fire aoe was originally somewhat poorly implemented, given that two handed warriors basic attacks were area damaging and caused instant death to any poor party members who wandered into their vicinity

There was also an excessive imbalance between party members health and enemies so that the consequences of a mis hit were unfair

Modifié par Tigerman123, 11 décembre 2012 - 03:20 .

[ProfessionalPirate]

Made the mistake of casting Storm of the Century on Nightmare. My whole party died in seconds.


Though it was kinda funny