138 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...


Yes, yes he was. A depressing one. xp

Well, I would say "dark" and not "depressing." Since the story of one man getting revenge by burying another man alive and a prisoner being freed at the last minute are not that depressing, more scary in a way. But this is off topic.

Sloth demons need more love. Give a sloth demon a cool, unique look in DA3. Or make a despair demon, whatever, not my lore.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 11 décembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[NoForgiveness]

oh and btw it TOTALLY ROGUE!!

[Orian Tabris]

If there's going to be Despair Demons, then there should be an opposing spirit.

Each type of demon and each type of spirit opposes another. I'm not sure which ones are which, but I think it goes:
Valour - Sloth
Compassion - Pride
Justice - Rage
Faith - Desire
Hope - Hunger

Justice merged with Anders (a mage) and became Vengeance, from his overwhelming inner rage. Perhaps despair could be a spirit like Vegeance? A mage with an inner feeling (e.g. loss), merges - willingly and aware - with a spirit that opposes that feeling. In the case of an overwhelming feeling of loss, it would be a Spirit of Hope, which turns into a Spirit of Despair.

[NoForgiveness]

Orian Tabris wrote...

If there's going to be Despair Demons, then there should be an opposing spirit.

Each type of demon and each type of spirit opposes another. I'm not sure which ones are which, but I think it goes:
Valour - Sloth
Compassion - Pride
Justice - Rage
Faith - Desire
Hope - Hunger

Justice merged with Anders (a mage) and became Vengeance, from his overwhelming inner rage. Perhaps despair could be a spirit like Vegeance? A mage with an inner feeling (e.g. loss), merges - willingly and aware - with a spirit that opposes that feeling. In the case of an overwhelming feeling of loss, it would be a Spirit of Hope, which turns into a Spirit of Despair.

wait justice never became vengeance he was always angry and vengfull imo

[clipped_wolf]

Orian Tabris wrote...

If there's going to be Despair Demons, then there should be an opposing spirit.

Each type of demon and each type of spirit opposes another. I'm not sure which ones are which, but I think it goes:
Valour - Sloth
Compassion - Pride
Justice - Rage
Faith - Desire
Hope - Hunger

Justice merged with Anders (a mage) and became Vengeance, from his overwhelming inner rage. Perhaps despair could be a spirit like Vegeance? A mage with an inner feeling (e.g. loss), merges - willingly and aware - with a spirit that opposes that feeling. In the case of an overwhelming feeling of loss, it would be a Spirit of Hope, which turns into a Spirit of Despair.

Dispair wound be the opposite of hope, but the idea that there are, or should be, opposites is limiting.  Justice can be seen as 'rightous anger'.  You can not have courage without fear.  Hunger and lust are pretty much the same thing to us, but the demons express these human "emotions" within the limitations of their own existances.

[brushyourteeth]

Would it be like this?

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



(... I really like the idea, by the way)

[Fredward]

Okay firstly how is hunger and lust at all the same thing? Unless using hunger specifically as a synonym for lust. I rarely want to have sex with my food.

Also keep in mind that if demons/spirits really DO reflect the human psyche there's bound to be WAAAAAAY more than we've seen so far. So there's no reason to think there couldn't be a depressing demon quoting Poe floating about. Since most people don't have like, seven emotional states. xp

[ShaggyWolf]

Despair is too specific an emotion to define a demon, I think. It's an emotion that a sloth demon would target, I think.

Don't take sloth's definition too literally. Demons don't exist to make people lazy, or give people what they want, or make them feel prideful. Demons exist to exploit emotions people already have.

Sadness and depression might not seem like part of sloth's domain, but those emotions make one susceptible to a sloth demon's urgings. Despair is dangerous in this regard because it is such an easy emotion to give in to. It's not the fact that you're sad which would allow a Sloth demon to prey on you, it's the fact that you could give up, throw aside your purpose and your will. It is the act of giving in, and the lack of proactive thinking and physical action which would allow a sloth demon to move in.

[NoForgiveness]

Valadras21 wrote...

Despair is too specific an emotion to define a demon, I think. It's an emotion that a sloth demon would target, I think.

Don't take sloth's definition too literally. Demons don't exist to make people lazy, or give people what they want, or make them feel prideful. Demons exist to exploit emotions people already have.

Sadness and depression might not seem like part of sloth's domain, but those emotions make one susceptible to a sloth demon's urgings. Despair is dangerous in this regard because it is such an easy emotion to give in to. It's not the fact that you're sad which would allow a Sloth demon to prey on you, it's the fact that you could give up, throw aside your purpose and your will. It is the act of giving in, and the lack of proactive thinking and physical action which would allow a sloth demon to move in.

oh i agree 

[Sable Rhapsody]

When I think of Despair, all I can think of is the incarnation in Neil Gaiman's Sandman comics.

[iOnlySignIn]

We also need:

Fear Demon

Sadness Demon

Annoyance Demon

Suspicion Demon

Distraction Demon

etc.

See this for details:

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 11 décembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[Daerog]

what a nice looking chart.

[Shelondias]

It's called Isolde and there's only one.

[Typhrus]

The 5 demons that we know of, seem to be more broad catagories more than anything else. As such I agree with other posters who have said it is more an area a Sloth demon would target. In much the same way Vengeance is a concept more akin to a Rage demon (As much as I'd rather see both dispair and vengeance as different demonic entities).

[Heimdall]

Despair? I guess it talks people into killing themselves then?

[jimmystabbs]

whenever i think on Demons and spirits in DA I'm always remided of niel gaimans sandman. dispair always found people when they looked in the mirror

[nightscrawl]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Well, despair is a giving up of hope. No more drive or action toward something greater. Others are cut off, one is alone and is pulled into his or her self.

Laziness is also a lack of drive to do something greater, one does not branch out.

Despair is kind of like a laziness of the soul.

Now, this is despair I am talking about. I am not talking about depression or mourning or being sad from empathy. I am strictly talking about despair and its definition of losing (giving up, no longer trying to achieve) hope.

I think this is good. Sloth is apathy which can come from despair or laziness: "What is the point of trying, we're all going to die anyway?" versus "Meh, I don't feel like it."

As far as what would happen to the possessed person, I suppose the demon would just feed off the resulting emotions, just as the other types do. Although the other demon types have more of a meal because those other emotions are more powerful and have more of an opportunity to influence third parties, resulting in more emotions for the demon to feed on. An example would be a Rage demon causing violence. In that case the demon feeds on its host's emotions, and has also the emotions of victims of the violence it caused. I don't really see that happening with a Sloth demon.

The demons we've seen in DAO and DA2 seem to be the embodiment of their named emotion, including the Sloth demon we encounter in the DAO mage origin. That demon might not even care to exert itself to cause many problems, or even if it did, might get disinterested quickly and leave.

It actually doesn't matter if they overlap. Most of the Seven Deadly Sins can be distilled down into pride anyway, where you put yourself above all, which includes acquiring more wealth (greed), satisfying your own desires (lust and gluttony), wanting something that someone else has (envy), anger resulting from revenge (wrath), and lack of desire to exert one's self (sloth). This would explain why the Pride demon in DAO lore is the most powerful.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 11 décembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[labargegrrrl]

i think demons were supposed to correspond to vices.

despair strikes me as more as an emotional state than a vice.

just sayin.

[Medhia Nox]

I'm not sure why they didn't use the other 3 deadly sins (though I suppose "Wrath" and "Lust" weren't cool enough... so they got renamed to "Rage" and "Desire")

Gluttony, Envy and Greed are great concepts to play with.

=========

Sloth isn't laziness - or rather, having a day just being lazy, isn't sloth. Sloth is a detrimental form of lethargy - any type of lazy behavior that overrides performing all other tasks.

I think despair fits perfectly into the category - in fact, isn't there something about a town that falls into despair and they found out it was a Sloth demon? I'll have to dig around.

Edit: It's in the Codex entry for Sloth demons.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 11 décembre 2012 - 02:41 .

[nightscrawl]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Despair? I guess it talks people into killing themselves then?

This actually would be a good way for it to feed. Imagine that you find someone who is suffering emotionally for whatever reason. You can then push that person to kill themselves. Supposedly the people who care about said person would also be driven to despair and the cycle can continue. Perhaps the demon only needs to kill (or drive to suicide) one person, where the resulting despair of everyone around that person would provide enough negative energy for a long while. A parent who loses a child and then kills him or herself would send huge ripples throughout the entire family.

[Heimdall]

nightscrawl wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Despair? I guess it talks people into killing themselves then?

This actually would be a good way for it to feed. Imagine that you find someone who is suffering emotionally for whatever reason. You can then push that person to kill themselves. Supposedly the people who care about said person would also be driven to despair and the cycle can continue. Perhaps the demon only needs to kill (or drive to suicide) one person, where the resulting despair of everyone around that person would provide enough negative energy for a long while. A parent who loses a child and then kills him or herself would send huge ripples throughout the entire family.

Actually I was thinking of Spencer's Faerie Queen, in which the protagonist encountered a monster called Despair.  That's what it did, talk people into suicide.

[nightscrawl]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Actually I was thinking of Spencer's Faerie Queen, in which the protagonist encountered a monster called Despair. That's what it did, talk people into suicide.

In a setting like DAO, how would that work? It doesn't seem efficient for long term feeding, hence my post .

[Heimdall]

nightscrawl wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Actually I was thinking of Spencer's Faerie Queen, in which the protagonist encountered a monster called Despair. That's what it did, talk people into suicide.

In a setting like DAO, how would that work? It doesn't seem efficient for long term feeding, hence my post .

I'm not sure.  Demons don't seem to think in the long term very often, probably because time is pretty relative in the Fade.  In Spencer the monster just seemed to do it for kicks.

[Medhia Nox]

Even if the demon talked people into suicide - there's still plenty of people.

Perhaps suicide is really nutritious and the demon only needs to feed once every month/year/decade?

Perhaps it's the slow - painful journey toward the event that feeds the demon... with the event being a happy ending of sorts.

There's an infinite number of explanations for these kinds of made up things.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 11 décembre 2012 - 03:36 .

[Spankoman]

There's also a Potato Pancake Demon named Murray.