190 réponses à ce sujet

[january42]

The Stimulant Packs were nerfed due to the fact that even without taking the damage passives of the power you still got a 12.5% buff to damage which is only about 5% lower than a Hunter Mode specced for damage in rank 6; that needed to happen. Also, 2400 shields is fine now, 4000 was too much.

I'm not entirely sure about Hunter Mode, but with how effective it is right now I could only imagine how broken it probably was on both the GE and the GI.

The problem is Bioware trys to balance charachters by nerfing abilities. Both hunter mode and stim packs were balanced as abilities.   The thing is, the better kits have power sets that work together, the weaker ones do not.  Not the the massive jump in utility the HA (and PA) got when Singularity was re-worked to work with their other powers.

Alot of the blalance between kits is due to the synergy between abilities. You could improve alot of kits by swaping one power for one that worked better with the others. (there are a few powers that are just bad, like Havok Strike, but not many actually)

but
I bet if I mention that I've more than tripled second place's score
with an Infiltrator you'd just respond by telling me that clearly my
teammates were bad, and that it shows nothing about Infiltrators =P

The real question is:  Where should the top level be?  If you think the current to level chars are to good, then infiltrators need to be nerfed.  If not, then its better to bring the others closer to the top.

Personally, I think the current top is ok, and would rather the other chars be improved.

[darkblade]

Feneckus wrote...

Calling it : There will be a third TC crisis after Recon Mines get nerfed, which will barely affect the Drell Infiltrator while the Volus Engineer will lose a significant amount of ass kicking potential.

Or maybe it will be a homing grenade nerf.

Or both.

I will absolutely flip my **** if either of those powers gets nerfed. If both get nerfed, im getting banned that day.

[Gylukios]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

No threads on or near the front page about Tactical Cloak (other than this one) - not a crisis

However, it's one of the few things still stalking the forums at this stage, popping up every few days/weeks. People were pretty sure that TGI was going to get hit, and when it did, it would take a stim pack nerf, because too many mid-range characters have Overload and TC already got nerfed. They knew when this happened, that the Havoc Soldier would be made far worse than he already was.

People all but knew these things outright for a few weeks. People blamed the seemingly inevitable nerfing of the Havoc on TGI and his Harrier for weeks before it actually happened. Now that these things have happened and the results were exactly what people expected them to be, they're a little fumed up. That, of course being amplified by their foresight produces the current round of TC talk.

Modifié par Gylukios, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Beeno4Life]

No. We're in the midst of a bunch of idiots that think the TGI is OP because of tactical cloak, when really it's because of his lololinodie button when used in tandem with tactical cloak.

[Cyonan]

january42 wrote...

but
I bet if I mention that I've more than tripled second place's score
with an Infiltrator you'd just respond by telling me that clearly my
teammates were bad, and that it shows nothing about Infiltrators =P

The real question is: Where should the top level be? If you think the current to level chars are to good, then infiltrators need to be nerfed. If not, then its better to bring the others closer to the top.

Personally, I think the current top is ok, and would rather the other chars be improved.

I was mostly making a point with that. I scored 282k(second place was 84k) on my TGI + Harrier, but I've actually beaten that score at 288k with my N7 Paladin(not spamming CBs, either), both in 4 man games. Score is entirely meaningless when it comes to showing what is or isn't "overpowered" because there are far too many factors that aren't the character you're playing on.

As I noted, I think the TGI is overpowered, but I also prefer that to the alternative of another character that really doesn't need it getting hit. It's not nearly as bad as Krysae + GI was, at least on PC, in terms of seeing them in lobbies. If I don't want to play with a TGI + Harrier/PPR combo I don't see so many that I can't just leave the lobby and join a new one.

I should also point out that when I consider how "good" a character is, I'm taking into account more than just its' damage output. The Kroguard is a very good character but he couldn't hope to match the GI in terms of damage output.

[Richter Harken]

Cyonan wrote...

Richter Harken wrote...

The nerf that hit the already underpowered Havoc soldier, making it abysmally bad. The fact that the Quarian Male soldier is lackluster, because it shares sabotage with the FQI, and the power is completely useless without tactical cloak.

These two issues only threw the matter into the spotlight again.

That is hardly the FQI's fault. It's been pointed out many times that the cooldown nerf was irrelevant and that they could lower it and she'd not even take notice(which that alone would solve the biggest issue the QMS has with it right now). The hacking portion of the ability isn't even affected by Tactical Cloak and it's still the worst of the two halves of the ability.

and it's not like she's even overpowered to begin with, so they would have some room to buff the Backfire effect.

Oh no, I'm not saying that it's the FQI's fault, directly. It's TC, as always.

It's similar to the havoc case, except it happened in the reverse order: sabotage is a terrible power, which may have been slated for buffs it it were present in other kits which could showcase its weakness. Since the only kit that had sabotage, also had TC, it was never considered seriously for buffs.

Essentially, sabotage should have been buffed, but wasn't.
I agree with your assessment btw,  they need to look at its cooldown and drastically reduce it. This will allow the QMS to use it, and won't really change the way the FQI (who is OK) operates.

Modifié par Richter Harken, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:51 .

[Poison_Berrie]

CWG07 wrote...

Tactical Cloak is nothing more than a false security blanket. It never works, and is a false sense of hope. Every mob in multiplayer can see you from across the map, specially geth and cerberus turrets.

Am I the only for who it works, or am I just more concious of the limitations that Tactical Cloak has?

[Cyonan]

Jiovanie- wrote...

What I don't understand is how the entire Infiltrator class gets the blame for every single nerf in this game when only Hunter Mode and Stim packs were nerfed that the class also shares with two other kits.

Exactly how many of the Infiltrators are broken that it's necessary to nerf Tactical Cloak, which won't affect the classes people are crusading after? Also, why is it that the weapon based kits get the most hate? We are playing a shooter right?

Krysae is also believed to be nerfed primarily because of the GI, and partially SI.

At this point I suspect if anything gets nerfed that just happens to be shared with an Infiltrator then the entire Infiltrator class is going to get the blame for it. I imagine the N7 Shadow would get blamed if they ever nerfed melee mods or something.

Modifié par Cyonan, 11 décembre 2012 - 05:57 .

[Feneckus]

ThirdWorldAssassin wrote...

You people should seriously have some more appreciation for the infiltrator class, seeing as they carry you throughout your games. No, please don't tell me how good you are with your quarrian engineer or geth trooper, I couldn't care less.

I guess you don't realize people like you are the reason for all this Tactical Cloak ****storm.

[Feneckus]

Jiovanie- wrote...

What I don't understand is how the entire Infiltrator class gets the blame for every single nerf in this game when only Hunter Mode and Stim packs were nerfed that the class also shares with two other kits.

Well, I don't remember anyone saying the Krysae was broken on a Human Sentinel.

Just like I don't remember anyone saying the Piranha was broken on a Human Engineer.

And every single time, those nerfs have a far bigger impact on non infiltrators.

[Beerfish]

[cgj]

Feneckus wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...

What I don't understand is how the entire Infiltrator class gets the blame for every single nerf in this game when only Hunter Mode and Stim packs were nerfed that the class also shares with two other kits.

Well, I don't remember anyone saying the Krysae was broken on a Human Sentinel.

Just like I don't remember anyone saying the Piranha was broken on a Human Engineer.

And every single time, those nerfs have a far bigger impact on non infiltrators

any weapon buff/nerf hit non weapon platforms harder than weapon platforms so i don't get what s your point with that post, you gonna tell me the typhoon was nerfed because of infiltrators too ?
just like the last acolyte nerf hit my drell adept much more than even my paladin

people tends to blame it all on infiltrators cause they forget about the other weapon platforms

Modifié par cgj, 11 décembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[Feneckus]

Jiovanie- wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...

What I don't understand is how the entire Infiltrator class gets the blame for every single nerf in this game when only Hunter Mode and Stim packs were nerfed that the class also shares with two other kits.

Well, I don't remember anyone saying the Krysae was broken on a Human Sentinel.

Just like I don't remember anyone saying the Piranha was broken on a Human Engineer.

And every single time, those nerfs have a far bigger impact on non infiltrators.

Just because one gun and two powers were nerfed doesn't mean that my Human Male Infiltrator needs to be changed just because someone else decided to use a weapon on a weapon based kit to its max potential. The Piranha is still useful on other weapon based kits. Taking down an entire playerbase and playstyle over something so trivial is just moronic.

For the record, I don't want a TC nerf/change. I'm not stupid, I realize it would be a terrible idea. Besides, I know how bad it is to find out that one of your favorite kits has been nerfed since I experienced it with the GE/Havoc.

But arguing that infiltrators are fine and balanced, and that they have no negative impact on the game as a whole, is just laughable.

[Jay Leon Hart]

DarkseidXIII wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

The reason BSN lights up like a Christmas tree is because people whose default character is a Turian Ghost with a Cerberus Harrier would need to- dare I say it?- learn how to play a skill-based class... THE HORROR.

Sauce(s): If I have to play with one more 10 year-old Turian Ghost with a Cerberus Harrier...

Go f yourself! Sorry, you should go f yourself. Who are you to tell people what they need to learn. I personally dont give a f@#$ if my lobby is one AJA (me) and 3 TGI. Let them fight over grenades and hide under TC. You want to tell people how to play? Have kids. They're the only ones who need to listen to you. PS. Go f yoursel.

Oh the delicious hypocrisy 

[Cyonan]

Feneckus wrote...
For the record, I don't want a TC nerf/change. I'm not stupid, I realize it would be a terrible idea. Besides, I know how bad it is to find out that one of your favorite kits has been nerfed since I experienced it with the GE/Havoc.

But arguing that infiltrators are fine and balanced, and that they have no negative impact on the game as a whole, is just laughable.

I hear that Sticky Grenade and Cryo Blast got nerfed because of the Human Infiltrator.

I also hear that Proxy Mine and Energy Drain got nerfed because of the Salarian Infiltrator.

Or that anything has been nerfed because of the N7 Shadow

As I said in your thread, let's not pretend that it's the entire Infiltrator class that's doing it here. Doing that would be just as laughable at claiming that the GI/TGI have had no negative impact on the game as a whole =P

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I'm of the opinion that it isn't Tactical Cloak or Infiltrators per se, but rather careless character design. As some people have mentioned, you give any character three outstanding powers and they all have synergy with one another, it's going to be an extremely powerful character. It becomes a balance issue when a single class seems to have more of these characters than any other.

Keep in mind though that Tac Cloak gives the player the ability to cast a second power from within cloak and share a common cooldown with cloak. You're essentially getting two powers for the price of one. Because of this, BioWare really should have been more careful in the powers they assigned to characters with Tac Cloak. Infiltrators really shouldn't be getting upper-tier powers that they can cast for free from Tac Cloak. These powers should have been relatively weak, or should have had less synergy.

BioWare made a design error by giving the Infiltrators too many outstanding synergistic powers.

[cgj]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm of the opinion that it isn't Tactical Cloak or Infiltrators per se, but rather careless character design. As some people have mentioned, you give any character three outstanding powers and they all have synergy with one another, it's going to be an extremely powerful character. It becomes a balance issue when a single class seems to have more of these characters than any other.

Keep in mind though that Tac Cloak gives the player the ability to cast a second power from within cloak and share a common cooldown with cloak. You're essentially getting two powers for the price of one. Because of this, BioWare really should have been more careful in the powers they assigned to characters with Tac Cloak. Infiltrators really shouldn't be getting upper-tier powers that they can cast for free from Tac Cloak. These powers should have been relatively weak, or should have had less synergy.

BioWare made a design error by giving the Infiltrators too many outstanding synergistic powers.

true, as you said that my Tsol broke, my Volus sentinel commited suicide, my vorcha hunter thew a net at his own face

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Jiovanie- wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...

For the record, I don't want a TC nerf/change. I'm not stupid, I realize it would be a terrible idea. Besides, I know how bad it is to find out that one of your favorite kits has been nerfed since I experienced it with the GE/Havoc.

But arguing that infiltrators are fine and balanced, and that they have no negative impact on the game as a whole, is just laughable.

Human Infiltrators: Cryo Blast + Sticky Grenades = negative impact on game?
Quarian Female: Stickies + Sabotage = negative impact on game(currently)
Salarian: Proxy Mine + ED = You are right here.
Quarian Male: Arcs + Tac Scan = negative impact? ( I dislike him anyway.)
Geth Infiltrator: HM + Proxy Mine = Negative impact? (Possible but the Destroyer is also to blame for weapon nerfs)
N7 Shadow: SS + ES = negative impact (Slash spam I know)
TGI: Stim packs + Overload = this is an obvious one.
Huntress: Warp + Dark Channel = negative impact?

If you can explain how all of these kits bar the Salarian and the Turian provide a negative impact on the game, then I will agree that this class is largely broken. 

The Infiltrator class puts a cap on how powerful and effective weapons can be on non-Infiltrators.  When balancing weapons, part of what BioWare has to consider is the highest possible amount of damage a weapon can do when used with particular classes, builds, and mods.  They're not going to have a weapon that can one-shot an Atlas with the right build, for example.  Because of this, Infiltrators limit the strength of weapons in the game, and they indirectly make the overall pool of weapons weaker than they would otherwise be.

[dday3six]

Infiltrators and TC aren't the heart of the issue. It's game design favoring them that is.

Personally I think the reason for misdirection on that issue from some people is a "secret clubhouse" mentality. They want to be special and be preceived by others as such. They know that if other classes were better designed to allow them to be stronger and more synergistic with there own kits then said characters might require more "skill" to play. With that more people might be "special" or viewed as such.

There is a specturm of gamers in ME3 just like with many hobbies and leisure activities. Serious to Casual is how I label the sides, and because their reasons for gaming differ they are going to be at odds dispite the one connection between them: They all play because they enjoy the game, just for different reasons.

[Cyonan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The Infiltrator class puts a cap on how powerful and effective weapons can be on non-Infiltrators. When balancing weapons, part of what BioWare has to consider is the highest possible amount of damage a weapon can do when used with particular classes, builds, and mods. They're not going to have a weapon that can one-shot an Atlas with the right build, for example. Because of this, Infiltrators limit the strength of weapons in the game, and they indirectly make the overall pool of weapons weaker than they would otherwise be.

As I've pointed out multiple times in the past, Adrenaline Rush allows for much higher damage spikes than Tactical Cloak does and yes, that includes Sniper Rifles. If Tactical Cloak's damage alone is being considered broken then Adrenaline Rush should be considered really broken.

You should see what the AT-12 + Marksman does to an Atlas while playing off-host =P

I've fired off 7 shots in a row with that setup. Add in piercing and it gets a tad insane.