341 réponses à ce sujet

[Xena_Shepard]

I'm genuinely curious as to why people think consumable gear is a must if you're on gold and that you're a noob if you don't use them.

In my opinion, it's quite the opposite. Consumable gear is just a crutch that helps people with no skill limp through a match...

[Tarelgeth]

Because if you can manage without it, you can manage more quickly and with less frustration with it. Gold can be slow and frustrating. Is it any wonder why people would want to mitigate that?

[tutzdes]

Usage of effective weapons, lvl 20 characters, consumables is crutch? You may use lvl human soldier with Avenger I and no consumables but don't expect people to believe you're such a good player to carry your own with this.

Not using gear = asking for kick.

[Xena_Shepard]

Tarelgeth wrote...

Because if you can manage without it, you can manage more quickly and with less frustration with it. Gold can be slow and frustrating. Is it any wonder why people would want to mitigate that?

For people that just want to speed through maybe, sure. But I'm talking about people saying you're a "noob" for not using it.

I'm the type that values actual inherent player skill. People think they're good if they use consumable gear, but it's just the gear that's good.

tutzdes wrote...

Usage of effective weapons, lvl 20
characters, consumables is crutch? You may use lvl human soldier with
Avenger I and no consumables but don't expect people to believe you're
such a good player to carry your own with this.

Not using gear = asking for kick.

Kindly read what I said: "consumable" gear.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Tarelgeth]

Sure, it doesn't make them any better personally. But it does make them do better, perform better, and handle threats and ambushes better. If you're playing a game where your screwup and death could lead to a game failure and the loss of credit rewards, the better player will do what they can do avoid that.

[tutzdes]

You mean gear which adds consumables capacity? I've seen this only once on gold. Almost nobody uses it.

[Xena_Shepard]

Tarelgeth wrote...

Sure, it doesn't make them any better personally. But it does make them do better, perform better, and handle threats and ambushes better. If you're playing a game where your screwup and death could lead to a game failure and the loss of credit rewards, the better player will do what they can do avoid that.

I won't apologize if my teammates are so bad that the entire match hinges on me. Though, it does sometimes, and I can still pull through.

Still though, as I said, I value actual skill determining my performance. It literally bothers me to use consumable gear because I know it's not me on that scoreboard, it's my consumables.

tutzdes wrote...

You mean gear which adds consumables capacity? I've seen this only once on gold. Almost nobody uses it.

No, I mean gear that's one-use... like weapon/armor/ammo bonuses

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:12 .

[STRANGE10VE]

Tarelgeth wrote...

Because if you can manage without it, you can manage more quickly and with less frustration with it. Gold can be slow and frustrating. Is it any wonder why people would want to mitigate that?

This and i think it shows that you are committed and aren't a leech.

[SGreenwell]

Basically, it's a bit of a warning sign. Does it mean the person is horrible? No, it doesn't inherently mean the person sucks. But it's a warning sign, along with a really low-N7 level, or a low character level, or someone with the base guns.

If someone doesn't have a mic to explain themselves, then all I can go on in a public game is how they've chosen to outfit their character. Maybe someone doing a gold run with no consumables really is an elite player, but speaking as someone who isn't and still has enough consumables to last 500+ runs, it strikes me as odd when someone decides not to use anything in a gold run.

I also agree with Tarelgeth's point. What incentive is there to make things more difficult for you, and by extension, your squad?

[Tarelgeth]

Knowing that adding a 20% bonus to damage improves your capability is a kind of a skill, I guess.

You don't go to job interviews dressed sloppy and dirty because you want people to ignore the way you act in favor of only looking at your skills, right?

[Diasasterman12]

Say whatever you like. When i bust out my Densified ammunition V on my Turian ghost, prepare to have all your kills stolen.

[SGreenwell]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Tarelgeth wrote...

Sure, it doesn't make them any better personally. But it does make them do better, perform better, and handle threats and ambushes better. If you're playing a game where your screwup and death could lead to a game failure and the loss of credit rewards, the better player will do what they can do avoid that.

I won't apologize if my teammates are so bad that the entire match hinges on me. Though, it does sometimes, and I can still pull through.

Still though, as I said, I value actual skill determining my performance. It literally bothers me to use consumable gear because I know it's not me on that scoreboard, it's my consumables.

You realize this is a video game, right, and not real-life? There isn't a Mass Effect 3 Hall of Fame, so you won't be hauled in front of a Congressional hearing in five years to talk about your juicing via consumables and gears.

[SoundWraith]

Thread title is unclear and misleading on what OP wants to debate.

Consumables can be a crutch but ultimately it's up to the player to make good use of them. Stacking the best of them all together doesn't equate to an automatic iWin setup. Imo consumable usage goes hand in hand with weapon loadouts and mod choices. Even the kit in question plays a part in my consumable choice.

More power to you if you don't think it's necessary but whatever rocks your boat.

[Xena_Shepard]

Tarelgeth wrote...

Knowing that adding a 20% bonus to damage improves your capability is a kind of a skill, I guess.

You don't go to job interviews dressed sloppy and dirty because you want people to ignore the way you act in favor of only looking at your skills, right?

To me, using consumable gear is like taking HGH in sports.

Honestly, there's more skill in knowing the base limitations of your character and personal gear. What happens if you get used to using your consumables, then your caught with your pants down when you run out of that particular consumable? I like to know my performance will be consistent, and not using consumables forces me to work on my own skills as an individual rather than being dependent on an aid.

SoundWraith wrote...

Thread title is unclear and misleading on what OP wants to debate.

Consumables
can be a crutch but ultimately it's up to the player to make good use
of them. Stacking the best of them all together doesn't equate to an
automatic iWin setup. Imo consumable usage goes hand in hand with weapon
loadouts and mod choices. Even the kit in question plays a part in my
consumable choice.

More power to you if you don't think it's necessary but whatever rocks your boat.

My apologies, I don't often post threads.

Though, it seems a lot of people don't understand what "consumable" gear is.

SGreenwell wrote...

You realize this is a video
game, right, and not real-life? There isn't a Mass Effect 3 Hall of
Fame, so you won't be hauled in front of a Congressional hearing in five
years to talk about your juicing via consumables and gears.

Yeah, it's a game, and I want to have fun in it. It's not fun to use consumables and know you're relying on a crutch. I never said I cared if people use consumable gear, all I was saying is I care that people feel like you're a noob if you don't.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[LegionofRannoch]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I'm genuinely curious as to why people think consumable gear is a must if you're on gold and that you're a noob if you don't use them.

In my opinion, it's quite the opposite. Consumable gear is just a crutch that helps people with no skill limp through a match...

i use level 1 consumable gear on gold. i feel like i have to contribute in some way if we fail.

[Tarelgeth]

Hard for me to respond to the potential of running empty. I buy recruit packs regularly to keep my Supplies stocked, so I'm over-stuffed with most of the level one consumables. It would take double my current play time to run out if I -tried- to empty my stock. I don't see how anybody who's paying attention really -could- run out.

[N7 ElusiveOne]

Do people understand that this whole thread is about one person calling another person a noob for not using consumables. It's not even worth discussing, as not using them isn't a sign of someone unfamiliar with the game, it's a sign of someone who doesn't care about their teams success.

[Xena_Shepard]

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Do people understand that this whole thread is about one person calling another person a noob for not using consumables. It's not even worth discussing, as not using them isn't a sign of someone unfamiliar with the game, it's a sign of someone who doesn't care about their teams success.

No, you're the perfect example of what I'm trying to discuss: people who think a team's success hinges on everybody using consumable gear. I've carried my fair share of teams with no gear on. I've scored above OP classes with OP kits using OP consumable gears, with under-performing classes and no consumables on.

Example: 5 consecutive gold extractions with an ex-cerberus adept, no gear, scoring consistently between 100k~120k on unknown/known, and out-scoring (consistently) a kroguard with an AP reegar.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:28 .

[tutzdes]

Ah. It's just consumables. You can carry your weight without, but sitting in the lobby with empty slots = pressing teammates' trust.

If everyone uses consumables and you're not it means you're better than everyone else in the lobby (doubtfully) or don't contribute equally (what people would think).

Most people who don't use consumables - are greedy leechers. Using them you show that you're investing something into the match and hence you're expecting to win the game. If you have nothing to lose - don't expect to people believe you're dedicated enough and that you won't die every wave and leave in the middle of the play.

Modifié par tutzdes, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:28 .

[Shinnyshin]

For me, it's a warning sign. If someone's not even willing to use consumables on what could be a tough run, then I think they probably have very little commitment to winning. If they won't even use consumables for gold, then will they medigel when necessary? Use missiles when we need it?

Probably not. Meaning unless this run is guaranteed to be easy (if you have a Harrier X or are Jay the Headshot King) then you're welcome to use as few consumables as you want), I don't want someone who has a MUCH higher than average chance of going in all halfassedly and wasting my time.  Plus it's kinda obnoxious--even if it's not intended, a 0 consumable loadout implies a: "You're obligated to carry me h4h4" attitude.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[Xena_Shepard]

tutzdes wrote...

Ah. It's just consumables. You can carry your weight without, but sitting in the lobby with empty slots = pressing teammates' trust.

If everyone uses consumables and you're not it means you're better than everyone else in the lobby (doubtfully) or don't contribute equally (what people would think).

Most people who don't use consumables - are greedy leechers. Using them you show that you're investing something into the match and hence you're expecting to win the game. If you have nothing to lose - don't expect to people believe you're dedicated enough and that you won't die every wave and leave in the middle of the play.

I was only actually called a noob once for not wearing consumable gear. We entered the match and I put him to shame. He's now a good buddy of mine xD

[SGreenwell]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Yeah, it's a game, and I want to have fun in it. It's not fun to use consumables and know you're relying on a crutch. I never said I cared if people use consumable gear, all I was saying is I care that people feel like you're a noob if you don't.

The issue is that it DOES make you look like a bit of a noob. You can mitigate it, I suppose, by juicing up your N7 level, or making sure you have and use weapon loadouts that make you look like a good player. And if you have a mic, by all means explain to people that you can handle gold without consumables, and just want the extra challenge.

However, like I said in my initial post, there are only so many ways to tell how good a person is when you're sitting in the lobby with them. If someone isn't using any consumables, in my experience, it normally means they aren't especially prepared for gold. There have been exceptions to this, just like how there are some people with sub-100 N7 rankings that dominate. But I don't think you can fault people for looking at your setup and wondering, "Huh, now why isn't this person using a bunch of consumables that the programmers coded into the game?"

Also, to quibble with another aspect of your post - Why are you worried about running out of them? You literally get 2 to 5 each time you buy a pack, depending on the pack. Unless you just stop buying packs, you'll never be without that "crutch." This isn't a PvP game anyway, where you'd have to worry about competitive play down the line, so I guess I'm just kind of confused by your entire stance on the issue.

[WizeMan305]

It helps a lot to have them on, I don't consider it a crutch but a helping hand. Considering how much money you make it is pointless not to slap on a few consumables for the match you will most likely make it up when the pack is bought. Not to mention the way I see it if someone is willing to use consumables, then that usually means they are willing to use rockets, and med-gels.

It helps average players perform good, and good players perform amazing. Being able to use a wider variety of guns, being able to set up tech burst, doing additional gun damage as a biotic. Really there is no downside to it so why not?

[chefcook90]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Tarelgeth wrote...

Because if you can manage without it, you can manage more quickly and with less frustration with it. Gold can be slow and frustrating. Is it any wonder why people would want to mitigate that?

For people that just want to speed through maybe, sure. But I'm talking about people saying you're a "noob" for not using it.

I'm the type that values actual inherent player skill. People think they're good if they use consumable gear, but it's just the gear that's good.

tutzdes wrote...

Usage of effective weapons, lvl 20
characters, consumables is crutch? You may use lvl human soldier with
Avenger I and no consumables but don't expect people to believe you're
such a good player to carry your own with this.

Not using gear = asking for kick.

Kindly read what I said: "consumable" gear.

No no no, the problem is with noobs who don't use gear and end up being the weak link in the PuG.
Honestly, I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of being noobs because they don't use gear.
Noobs need gear to be useful during gold matches; choosing not to use gear on gold doesn't make you a noob.
Unless you're already a noob to begin with, and need that gear to be useful.

As for pro characters who use gear on gold matches? Well, we've got to use it sometime, or it just piles up in the inventory!

[N7 ElusiveOne]

Xena_Shepard wrote...
No, you're the perfect example of what I'm trying to discuss: people who think a team's success hinges on everybody using consumable gear. I've carried my fair share of teams with no gear on. I've scored above OP classes with OP kits using OP consumable gears, with under-performing classes and no consumables on.

Example: 5 consecutive gold extractions with an ex-cerberus adept, no gear, scoring consistently between 100k~120k on unknown/known, and out-scoring (consistently) a kroguard with an AP reegar.

You cannot claim that you are skilled in this situation, as your personal skill doesn't translate to every other person who chooses not to use gear. Id rather not pick people up the whole match and I certainly don't want to solo the match on a class that I don't solo on. So either communicate the situation on mic or act like you care so we all can ready up a bit faster.

For the record, I have also scored the highest without consumables and it's never on purpose. I simply refuse to apply consumables before I see what i'm getting into, and sometimes I'm dropped into a match in progress. Plus no one in the match knew I didn't have consumables, though like everyone else, If you are already playing gold, then you have a ton.

Modifié par ElusiveOneN7, 11 décembre 2012 - 07:40 .