341 réponses à ce sujet

[Droma]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Kogia wrote...

As I said, you have created a difference, you have decided one is different from the other in terms of how one should set up and play. You are telling others to not judge you because for some personal reasons you have decided they are not warranted, but you are making generalisations ('crutch') about others for using, or expecting their use.

You created a topic stating a view, most people have disagreed with you and given many reasons why, rather than just difiantly sticking to what you initially stated, why not take a few games to try what was possibily a mistaken belief. There is no shame in changing your view from a web forum, otherwise what's the point of posting?

I have played games with consumable gear... they weren't very fun. It's no fun to play in a competitive environment (if the game wasn't competitive, there wouldn't be a scoreboard) all the while knowing I'm not really earning the score, my consumable equipment is.

I posted because I was genuinely curious, I wanted to assess the community opinion on it. This is purely a discussionary thread I just felt like making. If anything, I was hoping to change a few minds myself.

Ultimately I'm not affected by these people who think I'm a noob for not using gear. I've been kicked from a lobby maybe twice because of it, and whenever people say anything I state my lack of caring of their opinion of me and proceed to out-perform them. Other people's opinions on my level of play matter little to me.

As I said, purely a discussionary topic.

now there is your problem. many people (including me) see this game as a cooperative, team based one. So consumable help the team to clear gold even better and/or faster. I actually don't really care for score (and I'm first place most of the time, at least if I'm not playing a volus =D) and so do a lot of people here too. Also consumables enables different and way more efficient playstiles. you can set up tech explosions with it, lower the enemys armor and/or walk speed etc. Even with level I consumables you are more usefull to your team then without it.

So use it to help your team instead of showing everyone your epeen, because you can handle gold without it (which isn't that hard actually). 

Modifié par Droma, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[HolyAvenger]

Everyone has this stuff now and it makes matches go faster. Even if its Explosive Rounds 1 and a Stability Amp 1...just put it on and get on with it.

[WizeMan305]

Xena_Shepard wrote...


1. I let them sit. I've actually heard from a couple people that there's an artificial in-game "limit" to where the game stops giving you consumables and will defer back to actual gear. That's not the only reason, but I've never used consumable equipment anyway, so all the more reason to if that's the case.

3. As long as I'm not kicked from the lobby I don't really care how they view me. But, honestly, I don't even know where that idea comes from, I've played with loads of people who used equipment and wouldn't gel/rocket either.

1. For equippment I believe the devs overlooked this and people have mentioned that even though you have 255 of them, you will still continue to recieve more. It sucks but it won't help at all to let them pile up.

3. I agree with you that there are people that do not gel, or use rockets when they use gear. But from my experience and from most of the people posting it seems that those that have nothing to lose by not equiping anything usually have no problem calling it a game if they go down once. With nothing binding them to the success of the mission they rather just fail and maintain their stockpile. Of course each individual case is different, but it just seems bare players tend to bleed out more.

[Xena_Shepard]

LoonySpectre wrote...

Cooperative multiplayer is not about outscoring your teammates. It's about getting the team through 11 waves as quickly and safely as possible. And, as someone already stated, if you can do it quickly without consumables, you can do it even quicker with consumables.

No, it's about having fun. I mentioned out-scoring people just as an example of how you can out-perform people who use equipment, even without. Still, I believe there is supposed to be a competitive element, or else there wouldn't be a scoreboard.... Competition is healthy, it gives people drive to perform better, whether with or without equipment. That drive to out-perform people with equipment, while using none myself, is what made me sharpen my skills.

Droma wrote...

now there is your problem. many people
(including me) see this game as a cooperative, team based one. So
consumable help the team to clear gold even better and/or faster. I
actually don't really care for score (and I'm first place most of the
time, at least if I'm not playing a volus =D) and so do a lot of people
here too. Also consumables enables different and way more efficient
playstiles. you can set up tech explosions with it, lower the enemys
armor and/or walk speed etc. Even with level I consumables you are more
usefull to your team then without it.

So use it to help your
team instead of showing everyone your epeen, because you can handle gold
without it (which isn't that hard actually). 

Being competitive doesn't mean being an uncooperative jerk...

If it isn't that hard, I'd love to see more people actually doing it. It's one thing to say it's not that hard, another to actually do it.

And it's quite troublesome to see so many people talk about just "speeding" through the game. Sorry, I like to enjoy my matches.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:31 .

[Ares Caesar]

Just so you know ammo powers, rail amps, and armor equipment has a max of 255 but is UNLIMITED in how many you can receive, you cannot max them out (according to Bioware devs - search forum if needed). Regular "consumables" missiles/medigel/ops packs/ammo packs CAN be maxed out at 255 and you will NOT receive any more.

As for using equipment, I think the general philosophy is;

1) It shows the other players you're not going to quit intentionally and you're likely "in it to win it" because most people dont want to waste equipment. Most people expect this because they've played with too many cheap ****s who wont bother to use rockets and medigel (as typically any equipment user wont refrain from using consumables)

2) If you've maxed out most of your manifest or all of it, you'll get ammo equipment quite frequently so most people playing Gold/Platinum have PLENTY to burn and nothing to use it on anyway. At this point (even without maxed URs) I can pretty much count on ALWAYS having level 3/4 ammo powers anytime I choose. This goes for A LOT of the regular player base.

I dont think NOT using equipment makes you a "noob" it just probably means you arent going to use medigel or rockets when necessary. Obviously this applies only to Gold/Platinum... Bronze/Silver you shouldnt need to use any equipment or consumables.

[BleedingUranium]

A point she made that everyone is overlooking is that by not using consumables most of the time you have a better feeling of how your character actually performs, and what they can and can't do.

If you took any player, cloned them, and had one play with the best consumables they had at all times, and the other never use them, the latter would be a better player.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:32 .

[MstrJedi Kyle]

I've managed Gold without gear with very little issues. Gear just helps the game go faster. A 24 minute or less game is a lot less frustrating that a 30+ game.

[Mandolin]

The clue is in the name. Consumables are there to be consumed. Why not use them? I play pug gold exclusively now and practically every time I see a player not using consumables he turns out to be a bad player. From my experience good players use consumables, bad players dont. If you're too cool for school why dont you play one handed as we all know using 2 hands is a crutch.

[Xena_Shepard]

DarthKilby wrote...

I've managed Gold without gear with very little issues. Gear just helps the game go faster. A 24 minute or less game is a lot less frustrating that a 30+ game.

It's weird how I see a lot of people mentioning 30~35 minute games. Unless something goes horribly wrong, my matches usually never last more than 28 minutes, 20~23 on average.

Mandolin wrote...

The clue is in the name. Consumables are
there to be consumed. Why not use them? I play pug gold exclusively now
and practically every time I see a player not using consumables he
turns out to be a bad player. From my experience good players use
consumables, bad players dont. If you're too cool for school why dont
you play one handed as we all know using 2 hands is a crutch.

There's a difference between refusing a supplementary aid and handicapping yourself

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:36 .

[Shinnyshin]

BleedingUranium wrote...

A point she made that everyone is overlooking is that by not using consumables most of the time you have a better feeling of how your character actually performs, and what they can and can't do.

If you took any player, cloned them, and had one play with the best consumables they had at all times, and the other never use them, the latter would be a better player.

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.  Especially that second part.  There's absolutely no evidence that playing while intentionally limiting yourself means you are/will become a better player.

Furthermore, you could argue that tossing on consumables (especially elemental ammo) fundamentally alters your character, rather than "ezmode-ing" them.  Take ammo that enables combos, for example.  You just tossed in a whole 'nother element to weave into your ability usage and added another layer of complexity.  In that case, you could argue that a player properly making use of ammo displays MORE skill, not less.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:44 .

[Siran]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

DarthKilby wrote...

I've managed Gold without gear with very little issues. Gear just helps the game go faster. A 24 minute or less game is a lot less frustrating that a 30+ game.

It's weird how I see a lot of people mentioning 30~35 minute games. Unless something goes horribly wrong, my matches usually never last more than 28 minutes, 20~23 on average.

It's just a reference, the basic meaning I'm sure we can all agree on is, that usually games take longer without consumables. For someone who claims to not brag about skill you still refer to how fast your games are rather frequently...

[kitty209]

gold reapers vorchas = **** consumeables, i has fire *annoying flamer sound here*

[Computron2000]

BleedingUranium wrote...

A point she made that everyone is overlooking is that by not using consumables most of the time you have a better feeling of how your character actually performs, and what they can and can't do.

If you took any player, cloned them, and had one play with the best consumables they had at all times, and the other never use them, the latter would be a better player.

If there was a desire to test any such character performance, it can be done solo. This both gets you the max character perfomance and it does not subject others to have to risk reviving you or carrying you when you find the character performs poorly. 

People who do this in a normal team match will likely have a number of excuses of which the following are likely
i) I need to see how it handles with other biotics/techs/whatever (ans: Do it with your friends or better yet, self detonate)
ii) I'll quit at wave 3 if it sucks so i'm allowing the team plenty of time to get a replacement (ans: and who cares if no one drops in for 4 or 5 waves, you're already gone)
iii) Its different because the players will mix up the spawns (ans: feel free to run randomly in and out of LOS to mix up the spawns)

[count_4]

Xena_Shepard wrote...
I didn't call people who use them noobs either 

Uh, yes you did.

Xena_Shepard wrote...

count_4 wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...
2.  use the Harrier on... one character.

So you only use crutches on one character. How does that make you superior to those players who use crutches more often?

the Harrier is a permanent item of gear and not what I'd classify as a crutch

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Xena_Shepard wrote...
Second, I never claimed to be superior to anyone (and if I did in any form it was accidental).

Yes, you did. And 'looking down on players' doesn't sound very accidental to me either...

---

Now, don't get me wrong, you can play the game any way you want. Hell, I'm rolling a Disciple on my Asari Vanguard just for atmosphere's sake and don't use equipment either most of the time (don't need it for the Fury anyway...).
It's just that running around claiming equipment is for noobs beccause it makes the game easier while using weapons and non-gear consumables that make the game easier is not a very smart thing to do.

[BleedingUranium]

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:51 .

[Shinnyshin]

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

I promote a lot.  I might not always have levels.  Should I be going into gold at level 1?

[Droma]

Shinnyshin wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

A point she made that everyone is overlooking is that by not using consumables most of the time you have a better feeling of how your character actually performs, and what they can and can't do.

If you took any player, cloned them, and had one play with the best consumables they had at all times, and the other never use them, the latter would be a better player.

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.  Especially that second part.  There's absolutely no evidence that playing while intentionally limiting yourself means you are/will become a better player.

Furthermore, you could argue that tossing on consumables (especially elemental ammo) fundamentally alters your character, rather than "ezmode-ing" them.  Take ammo that enables combos, for example.  You just tossed in a whole 'nother element to weave into your ability usage and added another layer of complexity.  In that case, you could argue that a player properly making use of ammo displays MORE skill, not less.

this.

Also why should anyone who can do 100k+ in gold matches and only dies 2 times or less per match, shouldn't be able to do gold without consumables? with 150% more shield I can basically stand wild in the open on gold as a krogan and tank a lot of bullets while doing damage. so my teammates take less hits, can fire more often and I  can also kill faster because I don't have to take cover. Without the consumable I have to take cover more often, which doesn't make the game that much harder, just longer.

I can see that running out of consumables is an issue if you haven't maxed out rares yet but even level 1 ammo helps. If you have it, use it. if not, it is ok for me if someone doesn't use it. I won't kick anybody for not using consumables. the only people I kick are missile glitchers, all the other times I land in a lobby I think can't handle gold, i simply quit.

Modifié par Droma, 11 décembre 2012 - 09:58 .

[deanzig]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I'm genuinely curious as to why people think consumable gear is a must if you're on gold and that you're a noob if you don't use them.

In my opinion, it's quite the opposite. Consumable gear is just a crutch that helps people with no skill limp through a match...

No offence intended but you're a noob.

[Big Jack Shepard]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I'm genuinely curious as to why people think consumable gear is a must if you're on gold and that you're a noob if you don't use them.

In my opinion, it's quite the opposite. Consumable gear is just a crutch that helps people with no skill limp through a match...

Well, I guess you better start playing characters with no skill points alotted and w/ common weapons.

Otherwise, you wil be playing with those crutches!

Matter of fact, you should probably just use melee only.

[Topographer]

The game would be boring without consumables and I think it was balanced around the idea of using them anyways.

[Taritu]

It indicates a commitment to the match. Yes, you have a huge epeen and a God at the game, but my experience is that most people who won't use consumables aren't very good. And if you're playing Gold/Plat regularly you should have plenty of money and consumables. Use gear. What are you saving it for? If you play all plat you have even more money. JEPs are cheap.

[Badpanzer]

Clearly all consumables should be hoarded and never used.

[Quikraptor]

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

Matter of fact, you should probably just use melee only.

Hey now. As a krogan lover I resent that! 
No, but seriously. Consumables are not a crutch. If you don't want to use them, be sure to be the lobby leader so people are much less inclined to kick you. If you're not running with consumables in platinum, you're definitely doing it wrong. Sadly, a lot of power is derived from being smart. That is to say using the right tools for the job. If you really want to look like a good player, beef up your challenge points (and some N7 along the way), and buy a bunch of PSPs.

I look at it this way. A crutch is someone using a very cliché loadout. Such as a Kroguard using a Spike Thrower, Cyclonic Modulator 4, Shield Booster 5, Shotgun Rail Amp 3, and Cryo Ammo 4. (Btw, this loadout ROCKS. Just stay away from Sync-killers, and your team can handle the bosses while you take the softies out.) But I resent saying that as nobody gets to really dictate what is and isn't a crutch. The items are there to be used, and this is a co-op game, so let people play how they want.

[HolyAvenger]

LOL @ players who use consumables are noobs and bad argument.

I can rock gold+ without them. Used to do so ever since the demo days. But why would I want to?

[Quikraptor]

Crap, double post. 

Modifié par Quikraptor, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:03 .