341 réponses à ce sujet

[aimimia]

I don't think of them as a crutch... not by a long mile. If a person has low skill or is incompetent at using something, he would suck either way, whether he used level IV or none. You seem to have a problem with people mentioning it's to "speed" up the game, which I support completely.

I rather have 15-18 min games rather then 20 min games+ . Mind you that's with friends/good players. I've been in many lobbies where they would use the best consumables and the game would still go bad. Putting it in a way of example, it's like using a spoon or a fork. Depending on what you use it for, it could be completely useless to have, or quite helpful.

Having single shot snipers, with phasic rounds, you are able to one shot most mooks with body shots, instead of having to do headshots. I don't know about you, but personally me and most people I know don't hit the head everytime they shoot something. Does it make them bad players? No, nor most of them are actually quite good. But why refuse to use them and decrease your killing speed by having to line up headshots, risking both getting shot at more, and slowing the game more.

[Doni]

You're totally playing the wrong game if you're here for skill.

[nuh1]

Taritu wrote...

It indicates a commitment to the match. Yes, you have a huge epeen and a God at the game, but my experience is that most people who won't use consumables aren't very good. And if you're playing Gold/Plat regularly you should have plenty of money and consumables. Use gear. What are you saving it for? If you play all plat you have even more money. JEPs are cheap.

^ this.
It's definitely not a crutch as OP says. That would be like saying weapon mods are a crutch. If you have the ability to beef up your character with gear, then why not? Gold+ even if you can get away with no equipment, it's so much faster when you use it. Faster clears = faster credits = more packs with gear.

Modifié par nuh1, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[BleedingUranium]

Shinnyshin wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

I promote a lot.  I might not always have levels.  Should I be going into gold at level 1?

You shouldn't promote; only excuse is the N7 or weekend challenge.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:21 .

[LoonySpectre]

Well, I don't know, but sometimes consumables can make all the difference between win and defeat.
Consider this: the team has wiped (or you're soloing), and you still have the 4th point to hack. Said point can be shot at from virtually anywhere (middle of London or Hydra) so you can't lure all the enemies somewhere away and guarantee safety for yourself. So the only way to do it is hack under direct fire. Cyclonic Mod could save your life, but you didn't equip this "crutch", so you also die. And no amout of playing skill can save you when you just sit down unmoving.
Or, say, you're attacking a Banshee or a Praetorian that started its sync kill animation. You know that doing a lot of damage to them can save your teammate. You shoot at them, hitting perfectly with every bullet... but the gun doesn't do enough damage without a rail amp. Your teammate dies, potentially screwing up a full extraction. You were skilled enough to hit the enemy, but the damage output was not big enough.
There can be other situations like that.

[count_4]

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

You better start learning Braille then. 

On a more serious note: Why do you use Medi-Gel and Cobra Missiles so much that you have almost none left? It means you're relying on something that you might not always have, which apparently is a bad thing.

Modifié par count_4, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:27 .

[BleedingUranium]

count_4 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

You better start learning Braille then. 

On a more serious note: Why do you use Medi-Gel and Cobra Missiles? It means you're relying on something that you might not always have, which apparently is a bad thing.

It's a fair point, but I do use consumables sometime, and only use Cobras/Medi-Gels when absolutely necessary. I'm not trying to say using consumable gear is bad, but relying on it all the time is just as bad as relying on Cobras/Medi-Gel.

Because they're used when needed and not equiped before the match there's a bit of a difference, but if you always rely on Cobras/Medi-Gel, you'll be in a lot of trouble when you run out. Relying on them is the key part, not merely using them.

I'm not arguing against using consumables, gear or Cobras/etc, I'm saying they shouldn't be something you always count on.

EDIT: Same name, but 360, not PC. Why I have any listed time on PC is beyond me, I don't actually own ME3 for PC  And the reason I have few Cobras/Medi-Gel is because I don't like buying JEPs, because I don't need them, they're just nice to have.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:29 .

[Xena_Shepard]

count_4 wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...
I didn't call people who use them noobs either 

Uh, yes you did.

Xena_Shepard wrote...

count_4 wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...
2.  use the Harrier on... one character.

So you only use crutches on one character. How does that make you superior to those players who use crutches more often?

the Harrier is a permanent item of gear and not what I'd classify as a crutch

What's
the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and
consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but
not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Xena_Shepard wrote...
Second, I never claimed to be superior to anyone (and if I did in any form it was accidental).

Yes, you did. And 'looking down on players' doesn't sound very accidental to me either...

---

Now,
don't get me wrong, you can play the game any way you want. Hell, I'm
rolling a Disciple on my Asari Vanguard just for atmosphere's sake and
don't use equipment either most of the time (don't need it for the Fury
anyway...).
It's just that running around claiming equipment is for
noobs beccause it makes the game easier while using weapons and non-gear
consumables that make the game easier is not a very smart thing to do.

To "look down on someone" means having a lesser opinion of them. And I never said that about people who use equipment, just OP kits (and think they're badass).

A permanent gear will always be there for you. Let's put it this way: if I could buy a pack, say, for 33k, that came with a specific set of equipment, my opinion would be different (still wouldn't use it). Point is, sure, you can get equipment from packs. But, say you're running that krogan soldier and you're using incendiary ammo which you set off with your carnage. Boom, you're out of incendiary ammo, what do you do now? That's just an example to showcase my point on why I don't use equipment, as to not become reliant on its effects.

count_4 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

You better start learning Braille then. 

On a more serious note: Why do you use Medi-Gel and Cobra Missiles so much that you have almost none left? It means you're relying on something that you might not always have, which apparently is a bad thing.

No... maybe you could look in my sig, I mean it's kind of right there.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[HolyAvenger]

BleedingUranium wrote...


You shouldn't promote; only excuse is the N7 or weekend challenge.

I like promoting. Not for the N7 or the epeen, but for taking low level characters into gold and challenging myself that way, and for experimenting with different builds on all kits of a class. Your way to play the game is not the only way.

[BleedingUranium]

HolyAvenger wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...


You shouldn't promote; only excuse is the N7 or weekend challenge.

I like promoting. Not for the N7 or the epeen, but for taking low level characters into gold and challenging myself that way, and for experimenting with different builds on all kits of a class. Your way to play the game is not the only way.

That's fine, I don't mean it's a bad thing, so much as I meant it's odd to argue that not using consumables is intentionally making yourself worse (being seen as bad), while intentionally making yourself worse by promoting is seen as fine.

Promoting is fine if you want to, but those two arguments don't mesh very well

[WizeMan305]

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm not arguing against using consumables, gear or Cobras/etc, I'm saying they shouldn't be something you always count on.

When your argument is stated as such you take a far different approach from OP. I doubt most people here depend on ammo, or consumables to get them through games. I feel its customary to use consumables, even if at lower levels. I have more respect for a lower level player with equipment over a high level player going bare.

[BleedingUranium]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

No... maybe you could look in my sig, I mean it's kind of right there.

Wow, silver Gear hates you  (And the Valkyrie)

[BleedingUranium]

WizeMan305 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm not arguing against using consumables, gear or Cobras/etc, I'm saying they shouldn't be something you always count on.

When your argument is stated as such you take a far different approach from OP. I doubt most people here depend on ammo, or consumables to get them through games. I feel its customary to use consumables, even if at lower levels. I have more respect for a lower level player with equipment over a high level player going bare.

I might be hijacking the thread then

[HolyAvenger]

BleedingUranium wrote...

That's fine, I don't mean it's a bad thing, so much as I meant it's odd to argue that not using consumables is intentionally making yourself worse (being seen as bad), while intentionally making yourself worse by promoting is seen as fine.

Promoting is fine if you want to, but those two arguments don't mesh very well

I don't think the two are that similar. There is a point to promoting (whether you agree with it or not). There is no point to hoarding consumables.

[Xena_Shepard]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

No... maybe you could look in my sig, I mean it's kind of right there.

Wow, silver Gear hates you  (And the Valkyrie)

I know

BleedingUranium wrote...

WizeMan305 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm not arguing against using consumables, gear or Cobras/etc, I'm saying they shouldn't be something you always count on.

When your argument is stated as such you take a far different approach from OP. I doubt most people here depend on ammo, or consumables to get them through games. I feel its customary to use consumables, even if at lower levels. I have more respect for a lower level player with equipment over a high level player going bare.

I might be hijacking the thread then

It's nice to have at least one person in here that understands the value of personal skill.

HolyAvenger wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

That's
fine, I don't mean it's a bad thing, so much as I meant it's odd to
argue that not using consumables is intentionally making yourself worse
(being seen as bad), while intentionally making yourself worse by
promoting is seen as fine.

Promoting is fine if you want to, but those two arguments don't mesh very well

I don't
think the two are that similar. There is a point to promoting (whether
you agree with it or not). There is no point to hoarding consumables.

I've heard several people say that. It's not as if I get them because I want them, I'd gladly take anything else over them.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[count_4]

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

count_4 wrote...

What's the difference between permanent gear that makes the game easier and consumable gear that makes the game easier? Why do you condemn one but not the other?
And what about non-consumable gear?

Because one is permanent. If they were all permanent, this discussion wouldn't exist. It's about relying on something you might not always have.

You better start learning Braille then. 

On a more serious note: Why do you use Medi-Gel and Cobra Missiles? It means you're relying on something that you might not always have, which apparently is a bad thing.

It's a fair point, but I do use consumables sometime, and only use Cobras/Medi-Gels when absolutely necessary. I'm not trying to say using consumable gear is bad, but relying on it all the time is just as bad as relying on Cobras/Medi-Gel.

Because they're used when needed and not equiped before the match there's a bit of a difference, but if you always rely on Cobras/Medi-Gel, you'll be in a lot of trouble when you run out. Relying on them is the key part, not merely using them.

I'm not arguing against using consumables, gear or Cobras/etc, I'm saying they shouldn't be something you always count on.

Well, this is quite different from what the OP said (and what you kinda adopted by defending and agreeing with them) and I fully agree.
Using consumables should never become imperative to successfully beating matches.

[HolyAvenger]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

I've heard several people say that. It's not as if I get them because I want them, I'd gladly take anything else over them.

But you do get them. You won't stop getting them. So use them.

[InvincibleHero]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Kogia wrote...

As I said, you have created a difference, you have decided one is different from the other in terms of how one should set up and play. You are telling others to not judge you because for some personal reasons you have decided they are not warranted, but you are making generalisations ('crutch') about others for using, or expecting their use.

You created a topic stating a view, most people have disagreed with you and given many reasons why, rather than just difiantly sticking to what you initially stated, why not take a few games to try what was possibily a mistaken belief. There is no shame in changing your view from a web forum, otherwise what's the point of posting?

I have played games with consumable gear... they weren't very fun. It's no fun to play in a competitive environment (if the game wasn't competitive, there wouldn't be a scoreboard) all the while knowing I'm not really earning the score, my consumable equipment is.

I posted because I was genuinely curious, I wanted to assess the community opinion on it. This is purely a discussionary thread I just felt like making. If anything, I was hoping to change a few minds myself.

Ultimately I'm not affected by these people who think I'm a noob for not using gear. I've been kicked from a lobby maybe twice because of it, and whenever people say anything I state my lack of caring of their opinion of me and proceed to out-perform them. Other people's opinions on my level of play matter little to me.

As I said, purely a discussionary topic.

So your consumable gear lines up headshots for you and pulled the trigger 500 times in the match?  /thread

I think people using level 20s could be called a crutch if I were of mind to be insultive, but truth is they are using a gameplay mechanism available to all. Using less than full disadvantages yourself and the team in some instances. I only played a level 20 once or twice and extract from platinum just fine. My lowest was a level 12 smashguard in platinum.

Fine if you choose to not use consumables then people can choose not to have you in their lobbies. You should not denigrate others for using it to simply puff yourself up. Yeah someone called you a noob yet your response is to insult everyone that uses gear.

[BleedingUranium]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

No... maybe you could look in my sig, I mean it's kind of right there.

Wow, silver Gear hates you  (And the Valkyrie)

I know

BleedingUranium wrote...

WizeMan305 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'm not arguing against using consumables, gear or Cobras/etc, I'm saying they shouldn't be something you always count on.

When your argument is stated as such you take a far different approach from OP. I doubt most people here depend on ammo, or consumables to get them through games. I feel its customary to use consumables, even if at lower levels. I have more respect for a lower level player with equipment over a high level player going bare.

I might be hijacking the thread then

It's nice to have at least one person in here that understands the value of personal skill.

1. That's what happened to me too, the drop rate for silver gear is stupidly low. SMG Amp V was the very last thing I got (UR weapons/weekly characters aside).

2. Yay!

[Xena_Shepard]

count_4 wrote...

Well, this is quite different from what the OP said (and what you kinda adopted by defending and agreeing with them) and I fully agree.
Using consumables should never become imperative to successfully beating matches.

How is that any different from what I was saying? That's exactly what I was saying...

Imperative to successfully beating matches = crutch.

[Leland Gaunt]

HolyAvenger wrote...
There is no point to hoarding consumables.

This is pretty much it. What are you saving your consumables for? I mean, if you don't use them on Gold+, when are you ever going to use them?

[Xena_Shepard]

Leland Gaunt wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
There is no point to hoarding consumables.

This is pretty much it. What are you saving your consumables for? I mean, if you don't use them on Gold+, when are you ever going to use them?

Platinum.

InvincibleHero wrote...

So your consumable gear lines up headshots for you and pulled the trigger 500 times in the match?  /thread

I
think people using level 20s could be called a crutch if I were of mind
to be insultive, but truth is they are using a gameplay mechanism
available to all. Using less than full disadvantages yourself and the
team in some instances. I only played a level 20 once or twice and
extract from platinum just fine. My lowest was a level 12 smashguard in
platinum.

Fine if you choose to not use consumables then people
can choose not to have you in their lobbies. You should not denigrate
others for using it to simply puff yourself up. Yeah someone called you a
noob yet your response is to insult everyone that uses gear.

It's funny how people get so defensive so quickly o_O I never insulted anyone, I simply stated that, in my opinion, using equipment is a crutch. If you're insulted by that, that's on you. People tend to get insulted by something when it rings true.

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 11 décembre 2012 - 10:47 .

[Arppis]

Put some gear on, put SOMETHING on the slot atleast. It just messages that you don't really care when you don't do this.

[CoffeeHolic93]

~20 minute run with gear (which will be replenished at the end of the match, by the way), or a ~30 minute run without gear with a higher chance of failure + more consumables likely to be spent.


Gee, what should I choose.

If you're calling equipment a crutch, you might aswell call modding you gun and using anything but a shuriken a crutch.

You can say that I lack skill, but I will say it's a sensible thing to do.

[Xena_Shepard]

Arppis wrote...

Put some gear on, put SOMETHING on the slot atleast. It just messages that you don't really care when you don't do this.

Quite the contrary. I have to care even more, I have to perform at my utmost best.